4 ms·

Could someone with a little more understanding of the frameworks and restrictions please explain what this means for locking iPhones while the app is tracking,

Could someone with a little more understanding of the frameworks and restrictions please explain what this means for locking iPhones while the app is tracking, and using Bluetooth devices like AirPods? Does it prevent them from working and stop you locking your device? Also not a good look (edit: for the uk) on the day Germany swapped from using this style app to a Google-Apple backed system. If the true reason for the centralised matching is that they want to have a better oversight of the spread could they not do that with the Google-Apple system by having it (optionally) phone home to a server when there is a match?

dTal 7y ago
On the contrary, it's a very good look for Germany and a terrible blow for privacy-conscious UK denizens. I hope this is reversed somehow. The Apple/Google system is zero-knowledge. The NHS system sounds like a privacy disaster. >The tech giants believe their effort provides more privacy, as it limits the ability of either the authorities or a hacker to use the computer server logs to track specific individuals and identify their social interactions. >But NHSX believes a centralised system will give it more insight into Covid-19's spread, and therefore how to evolve the app accordingly.
- samwillis 7y ago
  That is exactly what I meant, bad look for the UK! Fully support Germany going with the Google-Apple backed solution. I hope we follow Germany and reverse this decision!
- temac 7y ago
  I certainly prefer the Apple/Google/DP-3T approaches but they are certainly not "zero-knowledge". They are not even strictly "less-knowledge" than PEPP-PT if you trust the central server (but arguably not in ways that can have strong practical consequences, at least not more than the situation in the other direction).
asperous 7y ago
Bluetooth allows 7 devices connected at once, but actually the spec uses bluetooth low energy which is a special low-bandwidth, low-energy mode. You can lock your device. [1] It sounds to me like NHS wants location data logs of everyone in the country. You can measure contacts and spread that way but it's a privacy disaster. The decentralized approach tells authorities and users if they've been near someone who later on marked themselves as infected. The data is much more limited but still accomplishes the main purpose. [1] https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-BluetoothSpecificationv1.1.pdf https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  There is no BLE hard limit to device connections here at all. This whole system works on advertising packets. Beacons are non-connectable, aptly named. Your phone can be connected n number of BLE devices and also appear to be n number of peripherals itself. No hard limit that I can think of, usually just depends on the stack. But this isn’t that. This is your phone pumping out <CONTACT: I am 7733> and listening for other people’s phones to say <CONTACT: I am xxxx>. I can think of no stack that has a connection limit and after that stops allowing for reception of advertising packets.
  - nickff 7y ago
    I believe that Bluetooth units are limited to 1 central (master/server/upstream) and 7 peripheral (slave/client/downstream) connections. Mesh networks can be made up of up to 255 units. Advertising is different, and not limited, but it is not classified as a 'connection'. My understanding is that advertisements are simply broadcast, so there is no bidirectional communication.
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      I thought I had seen multi master stacks. For peripherals I know I’ve seen 20 concurrent this n the Nordic S132, definitely not 8 as any BLE spec limitation. Yes. That’s what I said, beacons are advertising packeting with the connectable flag cleared. You misunderstood, there is no bidirectional in my post. Just two transmitters and two receivers.

dTal 7y ago

On the contrary, it's a very good look for Germany and a terrible blow for privacy-conscious UK denizens. I hope this is reversed somehow. The Apple/Google system is zero-knowledge. The NHS system sounds like a privacy disaster. >The tech giants believe their effort provides more privacy, as it limits the ability of either the authorities or a hacker to use the computer server logs to track specific individuals and identify their social interactions. >But NHSX believes a centralised system will give it more insight into Covid-19's spread, and therefore how to evolve the app accordingly.

samwillis 7y ago
That is exactly what I meant, bad look for the UK! Fully support Germany going with the Google-Apple backed solution. I hope we follow Germany and reverse this decision!
temac 7y ago
I certainly prefer the Apple/Google/DP-3T approaches but they are certainly not "zero-knowledge". They are not even strictly "less-knowledge" than PEPP-PT if you trust the central server (but arguably not in ways that can have strong practical consequences, at least not more than the situation in the other direction).

asperous 7y ago

Bluetooth allows 7 devices connected at once, but actually the spec uses bluetooth low energy which is a special low-bandwidth, low-energy mode. You can lock your device. [1] It sounds to me like NHS wants location data logs of everyone in the country. You can measure contacts and spread that way but it's a privacy disaster. The decentralized approach tells authorities and users if they've been near someone who later on marked themselves as infected. The data is much more limited but still accomplishes the main purpose. [1] https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-BluetoothSpecificationv1.1.pdf https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
There is no BLE hard limit to device connections here at all. This whole system works on advertising packets. Beacons are non-connectable, aptly named. Your phone can be connected n number of BLE devices and also appear to be n number of peripherals itself. No hard limit that I can think of, usually just depends on the stack. But this isn’t that. This is your phone pumping out <CONTACT: I am 7733> and listening for other people’s phones to say <CONTACT: I am xxxx>. I can think of no stack that has a connection limit and after that stops allowing for reception of advertising packets.
- nickff 7y ago
  I believe that Bluetooth units are limited to 1 central (master/server/upstream) and 7 peripheral (slave/client/downstream) connections. Mesh networks can be made up of up to 255 units. Advertising is different, and not limited, but it is not classified as a 'connection'. My understanding is that advertisements are simply broadcast, so there is no bidirectional communication.
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    I thought I had seen multi master stacks. For peripherals I know I’ve seen 20 concurrent this n the Nordic S132, definitely not 8 as any BLE spec limitation. Yes. That’s what I said, beacons are advertising packeting with the connectable flag cleared. You misunderstood, there is no bidirectional in my post. Just two transmitters and two receivers.