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The government needs to be seen as doing something so it does something. Same reason why the TSA exists. I find it odd that the Liberals are the ones who are f

The government needs to be seen as doing something so it does something. Same reason why the TSA exists. I find it odd that the Liberals are the ones who are falling for health theater after spending a decade talking about the idiocy of security theater.

NotSammyHagar 6y ago
There's clear evidence this is not health theater. The evidence is places that waited to shut down had much larger outbreaks than they would have had otherwise. See for example New Orleans and Mardi gras.
- buzzkillington 6y ago
  Wait two years before you make bold claims.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Sure but what about Sweden, who’ve been doing fine despite having no strict shelter requirements. And how do you explain the fact that recent studies show similar infection rates between Germany and New York State? My take is that the lack of consistent federal messaging caused unnecessary gatherings like Mardi Gras to continue. But we could’ve had better results even without resorting to authoritarian orders.
  - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
    Sweden isn't doing that well. Sweden is expected to have about 10,000 deaths and they should have about 2,000 deaths if their health system works about as well as Switzerland. See Seattle's ihme projections: https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden. For reference Sweden has about 10 mil pop, Switzerland has 8.5 mil. Sweden is expected to kill about 8,000 people unnecessarily.
    - throwawaysea 6y ago
      Sweden also has various challenges that Switzerland doesn’t. They have a large population of Somalian refugees that live in multigenerational homes. Sweden also counts nursing home deaths in their public figures and not all locales do this. If you compare Sweden to the surrounding Scandinavian countries, they’re similar in terms of mortality once you adjust for population. These points are mentioned in https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866. CNN also reported that more than half of Sweden’s deaths are from nursing homes for the elderly (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-st...) and I don’t think stricter orders would’ve helped there. Sweden is past their peaks like many other areas, all while retaining their liberties and economic vigor, and domestically their approach has been very popular (see https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8257353/Swedens-virus-expert-popular-people-getting-FACE-tattoo.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8257353/Swedens-vir...). There’s a value to retaining some degree of normalcy and individual liberties, and it is not reasonable to claim that saving lives is automatically more valuable. As far as trade offs go, I think they’re doing a fine job, although I realize that’s a personal assessment. But leaving Sweden aside, others like Denmark are also taking a nuanced and thoughtful approach, rather than simply banning everything - see https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52226763 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52226763.
  - hsitz 6y ago
    Sweden is a country of only 10 million people, relatively homogeneous, and not a society where people have a distrust of experts and/or science. They are voluntarily limiting social interaction because they understand how important it is; don't need government to force them: https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/ https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  The popular conception of "waited to shut down" is based almost entirely on the strength of the outbreak in a location rather than how long they actually waited. New Orleans was one of the first places to issue a stay-at-home order, and New York was relatively early.
  - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
    Letting Mardi gras happen in n.o. is the clear different choice from other places.

NotSammyHagar 6y ago

There's clear evidence this is not health theater. The evidence is places that waited to shut down had much larger outbreaks than they would have had otherwise. See for example New Orleans and Mardi gras.

buzzkillington 6y ago
Wait two years before you make bold claims.
throwawaysea 6y ago
Sure but what about Sweden, who’ve been doing fine despite having no strict shelter requirements. And how do you explain the fact that recent studies show similar infection rates between Germany and New York State? My take is that the lack of consistent federal messaging caused unnecessary gatherings like Mardi Gras to continue. But we could’ve had better results even without resorting to authoritarian orders.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  Sweden isn't doing that well. Sweden is expected to have about 10,000 deaths and they should have about 2,000 deaths if their health system works about as well as Switzerland. See Seattle's ihme projections: https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden. For reference Sweden has about 10 mil pop, Switzerland has 8.5 mil. Sweden is expected to kill about 8,000 people unnecessarily.
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    Sweden also has various challenges that Switzerland doesn’t. They have a large population of Somalian refugees that live in multigenerational homes. Sweden also counts nursing home deaths in their public figures and not all locales do this. If you compare Sweden to the surrounding Scandinavian countries, they’re similar in terms of mortality once you adjust for population. These points are mentioned in https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866. CNN also reported that more than half of Sweden’s deaths are from nursing homes for the elderly (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-st...) and I don’t think stricter orders would’ve helped there. Sweden is past their peaks like many other areas, all while retaining their liberties and economic vigor, and domestically their approach has been very popular (see https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8257353/Swedens-virus-expert-popular-people-getting-FACE-tattoo.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8257353/Swedens-vir...). There’s a value to retaining some degree of normalcy and individual liberties, and it is not reasonable to claim that saving lives is automatically more valuable. As far as trade offs go, I think they’re doing a fine job, although I realize that’s a personal assessment. But leaving Sweden aside, others like Denmark are also taking a nuanced and thoughtful approach, rather than simply banning everything - see https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52226763 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52226763.
- hsitz 6y ago
  Sweden is a country of only 10 million people, relatively homogeneous, and not a society where people have a distrust of experts and/or science. They are voluntarily limiting social interaction because they understand how important it is; don't need government to force them: https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/ https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-...
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The popular conception of "waited to shut down" is based almost entirely on the strength of the outbreak in a location rather than how long they actually waited. New Orleans was one of the first places to issue a stay-at-home order, and New York was relatively early.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  Letting Mardi gras happen in n.o. is the clear different choice from other places.