6 ms·

The only reason you can block ads on the web is because there was a small window where the idealistic academics that built the internet and the web were able to

The only reason you can block ads on the web is because there was a small window where the idealistic academics that built the internet and the web were able to keep commercial interests out so they were able to use open universal protocols. The same will not be true for VR.

sneak 7y ago
It’s already not true on mobile generally. No view source, no extensions, no user injected scripts. You get the page the server wants you to see.
- dlbucci 7y ago
  Firefox on Android at least gives you add-ons (hello, uBlock Origin).
  - rescripting 7y ago
    Or DNS66 to do it for mostly everywhere in Android. The only reason that's possible is because of open web standards though so the point still stands.
- gruez 7y ago
  Android: firefox for android, or the plethora of adblock browsers out there iOS: adblockers are natively supported through "content blockers", plus there's a plethora of adblock browsers
  - eloisius 7y ago
    But not possible in native apps which have largely supplanted the use of web pages.
    - lstamour 7y ago
      Users can still choose not to install native apps. For as long as the web remains free, I’ll happily support newspapers, magazines, YT Premium and Patreon with my dollars, while absolutely not using the apps with ads in them, in favour of using 3 different content blocking extensions in Safari, and Strict privacy mode in Edge with uBlock Origin on desktop. That said, because ads are inserted by third parties, you can often block ads with DNS and/or VPN. It’s a shame that iOS has never allowed changing the DNS while on mobile networks, though. Really though, I miss when we were building open standards for content though, like RSS and podcasts. Feels like a different era of the Internet, as we never saw an open standard take off for ChromeCast/AirPlay2 or the mentioned-on-stage open standards for FaceTime. Even the RIAA is trying to lock down music again by promoting MQA (Tidal) over FLAC (HDtracks, Amazon). Closest thing to “open” that I can think of recently for content would be HLS streaming, which optionally supports encryption, but is otherwise open to use or implement. Given recent history, I think it could go either way, but I doubt users will ever fully accept a closed web, so as long as the web provides open alternatives on every platform, we’ll still be in the clear... for now. :)
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        As long as websites continue letting you access them on mobile without the app…
        rollingbarreler 7y ago
        A lot of them try really hard not to. A reason for the "show desktop-version" setting's popularity. It's really sad that this has to be a thing, and doesen't really remedy the situation, more like a bandaid.
        Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        I wish Request Desktop Site would also fake a larger viewport width, maybe 1024px or so. Without that, it’s becoming increasingly less useful IMO.
        7y ago
    - oefnak 7y ago
      DNS level adblocking is possible untill DNS over HTTPS becomes the standard.
    - 0x5f3759df-i 7y ago
      On Android there are options such as the open source Blokada [1] that abuse the VPN features to block ads in all apps. [1] https://blokada.org/ https://blokada.org/
  - SippinLean 7y ago
    > or the plethora of adblock browsers out there I use Brave, is there another someone likes more?
    - oefnak 7y ago
      I use Kiwi browser, which supports all chrome extensions.
- kardos 7y ago
  Firefox is an exception here, which really underscores it's importance
  - takeda 7y ago
    yep, and that's why it is set as my primary browser, sadly integrated browser in the apps is still chrome :/
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- aikinai 7y ago
  Safari has robust ad-blocking support built in and good ad blockers even have inspectors to let you block custom elements.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  You can view source with Firefox on Android. You can also use add-ons to block ads. I haven't tried anything like GreaseMonley for userscripts though.
- roland35 7y ago
  Thank goodness for my pi hole, but unfortunately that only works at my home network! I'm always unpleasantly surprised whenever I leave the safety of 192.168.1.1
  - dylan604 7y ago
    Put your PiHole in the cloud. There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
  - oefnak 7y ago
    You could also use a VPN to your home network.
- _frog 7y ago
  This largely only really true on Android. iOS at least lets you install content blockers that work with Safari as well as any embedded web browsers within apps. The only place I typically see ads on iOS is in free to play games, and in those cases that's usually a pretty good incentive to play something else.
  - as1mov 7y ago
    On Android you have DNS66 (non-root) and AdAway (root), both can kill ads in browsers + webviews + native apps.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > iOS at least lets you install content blockers that work with Safari as well as any embedded web browsers within apps. Only if the app uses SFSafariViewController.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  Somehow people will find a way. If we can't have a universal browser, maybe the answer is to make a browser for every web service. We can make custom apps that pretend to be the official ones while interfacing with the company's servers. Whatever it takes to maintain control.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    Does anyone really have the time and motivation? It seems like so far there aren't any alternative clients (basic web wrappers don't count) for services that need it the most - think WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram, etc?
    - matheusmoreira 7y ago
      > Does anyone really have the time and motivation? I don't know if anyone has tried. It's definitely possible, though. I used to play some of those predatory mobile games. At some point I got sick of their addictive "daily tasks" game design and decided to automate all of it. I intercepted the game's network traffic: it was just JSON. Didn't take long to write software to talk to the server and do the tasks for me. Any code that's running on the client can be tampered with or replaced. It's probably not going to be easy but it's certainly possible. > WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram WhatsApp is already among the best messaging services. It doesn't really do anything that would motivate people to replace it with something better. Having custom software which lacks the remote message deletion feature would be interesting but it would be too much work for too little gain. I don't use Facebook and Instagram enough to have an opinion.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  On the upside, some content of independent authors is largely supported via avenues like Patreon and tips, not ads. Most of the websites I produce do not have ads on them. I don't make much money, but I do make some and it's better than it used to be. I'm hopeful that there will be more of a trend towards small content producers making enough to survive and we can begin to crowd out the "cancer" that is some of the worst commercialized stuff. It doesn't have to go away completely. We can just refuse to let it choke everything.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
It's only a matter of time until sites are rendering ads and content via websockets and wasm.
- artificial 7y ago
  If it runs client side there’s an ability somewhere to control it.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    Until ads run in a trusted enclave. DRM for streaming paves the technological path.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      DVDs had unskippable content sections, usually used for ads (i.e. trailers for other films).
downerending 7y ago
Are you sure? I will have VR (AR?) googles with a camera that sees what my head points at, processes the video graying out ads, and shows it to me on my screens. Not sure commercial interests can prevent this product.
- artificial 7y ago
  Plugin to overlay ad areas with They Live / Barbara Kruger style positive messages. “smile” “breathe” “relax”
  - Talanes 7y ago
    Go full They Live and just replace every ad with "Consume"
    - TaylorAlexander 7y ago
      And replace people with aliens.
ce4 7y ago
Totally agree. Bromite is a patched chrome with privacy enhancements and ad blocking. It used to provide a system webview engine that allowed all that for apps's integrated webviews... So its technically possible but Google doesnt like that feature https://github.com/bromite/bromite/wiki/Installing-SystemWebView https://github.com/bromite/bromite/wiki/Installing-SystemWeb...
darepublic 7y ago
no hope for open source?
Nextgrid 7y ago
A glimpse of the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
takeda 7y ago
WebAssembly is also trying to close that small window in the web.

sneak 7y ago

It’s already not true on mobile generally. No view source, no extensions, no user injected scripts. You get the page the server wants you to see.

dlbucci 7y ago
Firefox on Android at least gives you add-ons (hello, uBlock Origin).
- rescripting 7y ago
  Or DNS66 to do it for mostly everywhere in Android. The only reason that's possible is because of open web standards though so the point still stands.
gruez 7y ago
Android: firefox for android, or the plethora of adblock browsers out there iOS: adblockers are natively supported through "content blockers", plus there's a plethora of adblock browsers
- eloisius 7y ago
  But not possible in native apps which have largely supplanted the use of web pages.
  - lstamour 7y ago
    Users can still choose not to install native apps. For as long as the web remains free, I’ll happily support newspapers, magazines, YT Premium and Patreon with my dollars, while absolutely not using the apps with ads in them, in favour of using 3 different content blocking extensions in Safari, and Strict privacy mode in Edge with uBlock Origin on desktop. That said, because ads are inserted by third parties, you can often block ads with DNS and/or VPN. It’s a shame that iOS has never allowed changing the DNS while on mobile networks, though. Really though, I miss when we were building open standards for content though, like RSS and podcasts. Feels like a different era of the Internet, as we never saw an open standard take off for ChromeCast/AirPlay2 or the mentioned-on-stage open standards for FaceTime. Even the RIAA is trying to lock down music again by promoting MQA (Tidal) over FLAC (HDtracks, Amazon). Closest thing to “open” that I can think of recently for content would be HLS streaming, which optionally supports encryption, but is otherwise open to use or implement. Given recent history, I think it could go either way, but I doubt users will ever fully accept a closed web, so as long as the web provides open alternatives on every platform, we’ll still be in the clear... for now. :)
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      As long as websites continue letting you access them on mobile without the app…
      - rollingbarreler 7y ago
        A lot of them try really hard not to. A reason for the "show desktop-version" setting's popularity. It's really sad that this has to be a thing, and doesen't really remedy the situation, more like a bandaid.
        Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        I wish Request Desktop Site would also fake a larger viewport width, maybe 1024px or so. Without that, it’s becoming increasingly less useful IMO.
        7y ago
  - oefnak 7y ago
    DNS level adblocking is possible untill DNS over HTTPS becomes the standard.
  - 0x5f3759df-i 7y ago
    On Android there are options such as the open source Blokada [1] that abuse the VPN features to block ads in all apps. [1] https://blokada.org/ https://blokada.org/
- SippinLean 7y ago
  > or the plethora of adblock browsers out there I use Brave, is there another someone likes more?
  - oefnak 7y ago
    I use Kiwi browser, which supports all chrome extensions.
kardos 7y ago
Firefox is an exception here, which really underscores it's importance
- takeda 7y ago
  yep, and that's why it is set as my primary browser, sadly integrated browser in the apps is still chrome :/
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
aikinai 7y ago
Safari has robust ad-blocking support built in and good ad blockers even have inspectors to let you block custom elements.
RandomBacon 7y ago
You can view source with Firefox on Android. You can also use add-ons to block ads. I haven't tried anything like GreaseMonley for userscripts though.
roland35 7y ago
Thank goodness for my pi hole, but unfortunately that only works at my home network! I'm always unpleasantly surprised whenever I leave the safety of 192.168.1.1
- dylan604 7y ago
  Put your PiHole in the cloud. There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
- oefnak 7y ago
  You could also use a VPN to your home network.
_frog 7y ago
This largely only really true on Android. iOS at least lets you install content blockers that work with Safari as well as any embedded web browsers within apps. The only place I typically see ads on iOS is in free to play games, and in those cases that's usually a pretty good incentive to play something else.
- as1mov 7y ago
  On Android you have DNS66 (non-root) and AdAway (root), both can kill ads in browsers + webviews + native apps.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > iOS at least lets you install content blockers that work with Safari as well as any embedded web browsers within apps. Only if the app uses SFSafariViewController.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
Somehow people will find a way. If we can't have a universal browser, maybe the answer is to make a browser for every web service. We can make custom apps that pretend to be the official ones while interfacing with the company's servers. Whatever it takes to maintain control.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  Does anyone really have the time and motivation? It seems like so far there aren't any alternative clients (basic web wrappers don't count) for services that need it the most - think WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram, etc?
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    > Does anyone really have the time and motivation? I don't know if anyone has tried. It's definitely possible, though. I used to play some of those predatory mobile games. At some point I got sick of their addictive "daily tasks" game design and decided to automate all of it. I intercepted the game's network traffic: it was just JSON. Didn't take long to write software to talk to the server and do the tasks for me. Any code that's running on the client can be tampered with or replaced. It's probably not going to be easy but it's certainly possible. > WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram WhatsApp is already among the best messaging services. It doesn't really do anything that would motivate people to replace it with something better. Having custom software which lacks the remote message deletion feature would be interesting but it would be too much work for too little gain. I don't use Facebook and Instagram enough to have an opinion.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
On the upside, some content of independent authors is largely supported via avenues like Patreon and tips, not ads. Most of the websites I produce do not have ads on them. I don't make much money, but I do make some and it's better than it used to be. I'm hopeful that there will be more of a trend towards small content producers making enough to survive and we can begin to crowd out the "cancer" that is some of the worst commercialized stuff. It doesn't have to go away completely. We can just refuse to let it choke everything.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

It's only a matter of time until sites are rendering ads and content via websockets and wasm.

artificial 7y ago
If it runs client side there’s an ability somewhere to control it.
- adrianN 7y ago
  Until ads run in a trusted enclave. DRM for streaming paves the technological path.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    DVDs had unskippable content sections, usually used for ads (i.e. trailers for other films).

downerending 7y ago

Are you sure? I will have VR (AR?) googles with a camera that sees what my head points at, processes the video graying out ads, and shows it to me on my screens. Not sure commercial interests can prevent this product.

artificial 7y ago
Plugin to overlay ad areas with They Live / Barbara Kruger style positive messages. “smile” “breathe” “relax”
- Talanes 7y ago
  Go full They Live and just replace every ad with "Consume"
  - TaylorAlexander 7y ago
    And replace people with aliens.

ce4 7y ago

Totally agree. Bromite is a patched chrome with privacy enhancements and ad blocking. It used to provide a system webview engine that allowed all that for apps's integrated webviews... So its technically possible but Google doesnt like that feature https://github.com/bromite/bromite/wiki/Installing-SystemWebView https://github.com/bromite/bromite/wiki/Installing-SystemWeb...

darepublic 7y ago

no hope for open source?

Nextgrid 7y ago

A glimpse of the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

takeda 7y ago

WebAssembly is also trying to close that small window in the web.