6 ms·

Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

87 points by AndrewBissell 7y ago

wideasleep1 7y ago
I've got an idea...quit FB. Solved.
- knodi123 7y ago
  Instructions: https://deletefacebook.com/ https://deletefacebook.com/
- grej 7y ago
  I deleted my FB acct a long time ago, but I have been very frustrated by some meetup events using Facebook live to stream The meetup in the COVID era. PSA to meetup organizers: please don’t use FB live for your events.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
pnako 7y ago
A party leader manipulated by his own party, during a campaign. Now that's election manipulation! Have we figured out which foreign power did that?
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  You joke, but this does smell pretty severely of corruption. Corbyn is very unpopular with the Labour establishment.
  - gm3dmo 7y ago
    Corbyn was elected Labour leader in 2015, reelected in 2016 and subsequently lost 2 general elections and torched 8% of the Labour vote. It's abundantly clear that his unpopularity extends to a much wider group than the Labour establishment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Jeremy_Corbyn https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Jeremy_...
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      Labour came very close to winning in 2017, a fact which your rather terse summary glosses over. Who knows what might have happened if the Blairite right wing of the Labour Party hadn't been actively sabotaging Corbyn's campaign.
      - ukpo 7y ago
        Probably a generally higher quality of life, in a country run by people who genuinely care about the wellbeing of other people. Unlike the current lot of soulless right-wing ghouls. Corbyn was the best Prime Minister we never had.
      - Wildgoose 7y ago
        Labour may have done much better than expected in 2017, but they were still 55+ seats behind the Tories, which is nothing like very close to winning. The Tories won 317 seats (318 including the Speaker), while Labour won 262 seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_el...
        pmachinery 7y ago
        The election isn't simply between those two parties, and with just a handful of seats going differently Labour could have had its first Prime Minister since 2010. That's a win.
        sudosysgen 7y ago
        Parliamentary elections are more complicated than that, had Labour won three or four most seats they would have likely been in power as a coalition with other parties of the left. This might have quite literally cost Labour the election.
        thu2111 7y ago
        Has Labour ever been in coalition with anyone for an extended period? Reality is Labour lost the election despite going up against an incredibly weak opposition and basically refusing to discuss or take a position on Brexit, which was an irresponsible form of electioneering. When faced with a competent opposition they took the same approach and were wiped out. That's on Corbyn.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  All these conspiracy theories are getting out of hand ...
  - pnako 7y ago
    There is no conspiracy there, it did happen.
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      It would have been derided in those terms if you had guessed all these Labour staffers were actively sabotaging their own party's candidate while it was happening. And there clearly was a conspiracy, you can even read excerpts from the chats where they planned a lot of it!
      - pnako 7y ago
        Ah, you are indeed correct. I should have said, "there is no theory there, it did happen". But there was a conspiracy indeed.
culturestate 7y ago
I used to do electoral politics for a living, and I think people would be surprised at how often this kind of thing happens. In the "old" days, if a candidate wanted to run a campaign that we thought was a waste of money, we'd buy a few billboards on the route from the candidate's house to their office or campaign HQ. We'd make sure those neighborhoods were carpeted with yard signs. Facebook wasn't yet a behemoth back then, but we did the same with ad buys during specific TV slots - a practice now being used by lobbyists to reach the current occupant of the White House. You have to manage up in political campaigns just as much as you do in corporate life.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  It's hard to see this as "managing up" given the broader Labour Leaks context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22858570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22858570
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- Traster 7y ago
  What you’re describing isn’t managing up. It’s fraud. You’re misleading your boss about material aspects of your job.
  - culturestate 7y ago
    That would be true in some cases (though, frankly, almost everything about professional politics could be considered fraudulent in the corporate world and that's one reason why I left the business) but not here. I was a media and strategy consultant, which means that - other than helping campaigns figure out what to do - my primary job was to spend other people's money in support of a candidate or issue. There are a lot of nuances here (coordinated vs. independent expenditures, state vs. federal laws, etc.), but broadly it's not the candidate's money to do with as they please. Donors typically give that cash with the implicit understanding that we'll deploy it more effectively and dispassionately (and, admittedly, with fewer restrictions) than a campaign would. They still need to maintain a good relationship with the candidate, though, which is where things like targeted ad buys with the intent of "managing up" come in.
justinclift 7y ago
https://archive.vn/HuMeO https://archive.vn/HuMeO
pmachinery 7y ago
In case anyone (else) is wondering why a right-wing Tory supporting organ of Rupert Murdoch would effectively defend Corbyn and his policies by implying Labour was recently defeated because it secretly promoted right-wing policies to the voters, this story is from 2018.[0] To be fair, it's not (overtly) trying to make the reverse claim but mostly sticking to the point about political advertising. > "Corbyn’s aides sometimes demanded big spending on Facebook advertising for pet projects which Southsiders [officials at Labour HQ] regarded as a waste of money" Baldwin writes. > He quotes an official explaining: "They wanted us to spend a fortune on some schemes like the one they had to encourage voter registration" [...] > A Labour source said [in response to this activity]: "At the next election, we’ll have a fantastic and co-operative party machine to match our incredible mass membership and popular policies.” Unfortunately for Corbyn by the next election (three years earlier than expected) the attacks and undermining had got drastically more abusive and destructive, and the kind of people who think voter registration is a waste of money are now back in control of Labour. In the 2019 election it was reported that "almost every Tory [Facebook ad was] dishonest, compared with none of Labour's"[1]; or as reported by the BBC - brazenly pro-Tory in the election[2] - dishonesty "across the party spectrum"[3]. [0] http://archive.is/HuMeO http://archive.is/HuMeO [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/general-election-boris-johnson-conservatives-labour-corbyn-facebook-ads-a9241781.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/election-coverage-bbc-tories https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/electi... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Apologies for neglecting the date in the title. Seemed worthy of discussion given the other recent #LabourLeaks news. I can't edit the title anymore but would appreciate if a mod could add the year.
- jpz 7y ago
  I suppose that this "right-wing Tory supporting organ of Rupert Murdoch" is "effectively defend[ing] Corbyn and his policies" for a simple reason - it's fun to stir the Labour party up. In truth, electorally the Tories would far rather face Corbyn and the tankies at each election. Starmer looks like he's going to be a far greater challenge. It is good however that there is a functioning opposition that will apply effective scrutiny now, as that is good for governance, whether you're on the left or the right of things.
bArray 7y ago
Please mark 2018
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jonplackett 7y ago
As a paid up labour member this makes me sad and angry. Who are these people misusing the money I gave to them? I want to see them publicly outed.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Are you a Labour member or a Corbyn member? Why is it misuse?
jonplackett 7y ago
The simplest solve to FB manipulation in general is just to ban the targeting of political advertising. You can still advertise, but everyone sees the same message. No more deception. Facebook even makes MORE money because the more targeted a campaign is the cheaper it is. Everyone wins, except political campaign managers.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  That just promotes uniformity by driving non-center-of-the-normal-distributio people to the margin. Better to be transparent about targeting criteria.
- bcyn 7y ago
  What makes you believe campaign managers would continue advertising on FB if targeting options were removed? They might explore other advertising mediums that are more effective ROI due to targeting.

87 points by AndrewBissell 7y ago

wideasleep1 7y ago

I've got an idea...quit FB. Solved.

knodi123 7y ago
Instructions: https://deletefacebook.com/ https://deletefacebook.com/
grej 7y ago
I deleted my FB acct a long time ago, but I have been very frustrated by some meetup events using Facebook live to stream The meetup in the COVID era. PSA to meetup organizers: please don’t use FB live for your events.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

pnako 7y ago

A party leader manipulated by his own party, during a campaign. Now that's election manipulation! Have we figured out which foreign power did that?

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
You joke, but this does smell pretty severely of corruption. Corbyn is very unpopular with the Labour establishment.
- gm3dmo 7y ago
  Corbyn was elected Labour leader in 2015, reelected in 2016 and subsequently lost 2 general elections and torched 8% of the Labour vote. It's abundantly clear that his unpopularity extends to a much wider group than the Labour establishment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Jeremy_Corbyn https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Jeremy_...
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    Labour came very close to winning in 2017, a fact which your rather terse summary glosses over. Who knows what might have happened if the Blairite right wing of the Labour Party hadn't been actively sabotaging Corbyn's campaign.
    - ukpo 7y ago
      Probably a generally higher quality of life, in a country run by people who genuinely care about the wellbeing of other people. Unlike the current lot of soulless right-wing ghouls. Corbyn was the best Prime Minister we never had.
    - Wildgoose 7y ago
      Labour may have done much better than expected in 2017, but they were still 55+ seats behind the Tories, which is nothing like very close to winning. The Tories won 317 seats (318 including the Speaker), while Labour won 262 seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_el...
      - pmachinery 7y ago
        The election isn't simply between those two parties, and with just a handful of seats going differently Labour could have had its first Prime Minister since 2010. That's a win.
      - sudosysgen 7y ago
        Parliamentary elections are more complicated than that, had Labour won three or four most seats they would have likely been in power as a coalition with other parties of the left. This might have quite literally cost Labour the election.
        thu2111 7y ago
        Has Labour ever been in coalition with anyone for an extended period? Reality is Labour lost the election despite going up against an incredibly weak opposition and basically refusing to discuss or take a position on Brexit, which was an irresponsible form of electioneering. When faced with a competent opposition they took the same approach and were wiped out. That's on Corbyn.
AndrewBissell 7y ago
All these conspiracy theories are getting out of hand ...
- pnako 7y ago
  There is no conspiracy there, it did happen.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    It would have been derided in those terms if you had guessed all these Labour staffers were actively sabotaging their own party's candidate while it was happening. And there clearly was a conspiracy, you can even read excerpts from the chats where they planned a lot of it!
    - pnako 7y ago
      Ah, you are indeed correct. I should have said, "there is no theory there, it did happen". But there was a conspiracy indeed.

culturestate 7y ago

I used to do electoral politics for a living, and I think people would be surprised at how often this kind of thing happens. In the "old" days, if a candidate wanted to run a campaign that we thought was a waste of money, we'd buy a few billboards on the route from the candidate's house to their office or campaign HQ. We'd make sure those neighborhoods were carpeted with yard signs. Facebook wasn't yet a behemoth back then, but we did the same with ad buys during specific TV slots - a practice now being used by lobbyists to reach the current occupant of the White House. You have to manage up in political campaigns just as much as you do in corporate life.

AndrewBissell 7y ago
It's hard to see this as "managing up" given the broader Labour Leaks context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22858570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22858570
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Traster 7y ago
What you’re describing isn’t managing up. It’s fraud. You’re misleading your boss about material aspects of your job.
- culturestate 7y ago
  That would be true in some cases (though, frankly, almost everything about professional politics could be considered fraudulent in the corporate world and that's one reason why I left the business) but not here. I was a media and strategy consultant, which means that - other than helping campaigns figure out what to do - my primary job was to spend other people's money in support of a candidate or issue. There are a lot of nuances here (coordinated vs. independent expenditures, state vs. federal laws, etc.), but broadly it's not the candidate's money to do with as they please. Donors typically give that cash with the implicit understanding that we'll deploy it more effectively and dispassionately (and, admittedly, with fewer restrictions) than a campaign would. They still need to maintain a good relationship with the candidate, though, which is where things like targeted ad buys with the intent of "managing up" come in.

justinclift 7y ago

https://archive.vn/HuMeO https://archive.vn/HuMeO

pmachinery 7y ago

In case anyone (else) is wondering why a right-wing Tory supporting organ of Rupert Murdoch would effectively defend Corbyn and his policies by implying Labour was recently defeated because it secretly promoted right-wing policies to the voters, this story is from 2018.[0] To be fair, it's not (overtly) trying to make the reverse claim but mostly sticking to the point about political advertising. > "Corbyn’s aides sometimes demanded big spending on Facebook advertising for pet projects which Southsiders [officials at Labour HQ] regarded as a waste of money" Baldwin writes. > He quotes an official explaining: "They wanted us to spend a fortune on some schemes like the one they had to encourage voter registration" [...] > A Labour source said [in response to this activity]: "At the next election, we’ll have a fantastic and co-operative party machine to match our incredible mass membership and popular policies.” Unfortunately for Corbyn by the next election (three years earlier than expected) the attacks and undermining had got drastically more abusive and destructive, and the kind of people who think voter registration is a waste of money are now back in control of Labour. In the 2019 election it was reported that "almost every Tory [Facebook ad was] dishonest, compared with none of Labour's"[1]; or as reported by the BBC - brazenly pro-Tory in the election[2] - dishonesty "across the party spectrum"[3]. [0] http://archive.is/HuMeO http://archive.is/HuMeO [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/general-election-boris-johnson-conservatives-labour-corbyn-facebook-ads-a9241781.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/election-coverage-bbc-tories https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/electi... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500

AndrewBissell 7y ago
Apologies for neglecting the date in the title. Seemed worthy of discussion given the other recent #LabourLeaks news. I can't edit the title anymore but would appreciate if a mod could add the year.
jpz 7y ago
I suppose that this "right-wing Tory supporting organ of Rupert Murdoch" is "effectively defend[ing] Corbyn and his policies" for a simple reason - it's fun to stir the Labour party up. In truth, electorally the Tories would far rather face Corbyn and the tankies at each election. Starmer looks like he's going to be a far greater challenge. It is good however that there is a functioning opposition that will apply effective scrutiny now, as that is good for governance, whether you're on the left or the right of things.

bArray 7y ago

Please mark 2018

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jonplackett 7y ago

As a paid up labour member this makes me sad and angry. Who are these people misusing the money I gave to them? I want to see them publicly outed.

lonelappde 7y ago
Are you a Labour member or a Corbyn member? Why is it misuse?

jonplackett 7y ago

The simplest solve to FB manipulation in general is just to ban the targeting of political advertising. You can still advertise, but everyone sees the same message. No more deception. Facebook even makes MORE money because the more targeted a campaign is the cheaper it is. Everyone wins, except political campaign managers.

lonelappde 7y ago
That just promotes uniformity by driving non-center-of-the-normal-distributio people to the margin. Better to be transparent about targeting criteria.
bcyn 7y ago
What makes you believe campaign managers would continue advertising on FB if targeting options were removed? They might explore other advertising mediums that are more effective ROI due to targeting.