7 ms·

It's like a creeping cancer that cannot be stopped. Back around 1981, advertisers would take a certain percentage of ad pages in each newspaper or magazine and

It's like a creeping cancer that cannot be stopped. Back around 1981, advertisers would take a certain percentage of ad pages in each newspaper or magazine and consider it a reasonable deal. These days, they absolutely will not accept this unless they get a lot more space, obnoxious animations, force-play videos, and overlays that you have to click through, and often various registration walls, cross-site tracking, etc. They have only themselves to blame for ad blocking. With ML, eventually this will become pervasive, even into the physical world. (My VR goggles will gray out billboards, etc.)

judge2020 7y ago
> My VR goggles will gray out billboards Only if the billboard doesn't qualify for "acceptable billboard ads" (or you could jailbreak and run a different billboard blocker like a rebel)
nordsieck 7y ago
> With ML, eventually this will become pervasive, even into the physical world. (My VR goggles will gray out billboards, etc.) Will your glasses grey out James Bond's Aston Martin in Goldfinger?
- llukas 7y ago
  With style transfer improving a bit they can make it any brand ;P
- jagged-chisel 7y ago
  Not really necessary unless Bond’s current fling proclaims “This is a truly astonishing automobile, James. From which dealer is it available, and are there any current incentives?”
  - celeritascelery 7y ago
    If only advertising was so opaque.
- downerending 7y ago
  No, because it will be smart enough to know that I enjoy seeing that.
  - blululu 7y ago
    This is the real dystopia. Ever talk to the adtech experts? The question they ask is how can we display the ads that people will enjoy seeing the most? Hence Instagram is effectively all ads.
    - downerending 7y ago
      I'm willing to try that. So far, I only see ads I hate. What ever happened to gold like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcWPusAmaWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcWPusAmaWI
      - grawprog 7y ago
        Those are just the ads you recognize. How many ads do you see in a day that you don't even recognize as ads because they're not obvious or obtrusive, they just subtly bring your attention to a product that you never would have thought or cared about without it. Quiet product placement, ads disguised as news, fluff science sponsored by corporations, then there's those big companies that create lifestyles around their brand and people become so entrenched in that company's products, they don't even think about the fact they've never even considered an alternative.
eranimo 7y ago
That cancer is called consumerism
- egypturnash 7y ago
  Also capitalism. Also maximizing quarterly investor returns at the cost of every other consideration.
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    Please don't turn an economic model into a political platform.
    - eropple 7y ago
      When the economic model's enthusiastic practitioners turn it into a political platform, what's the rest of us supposed to do?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - BLKNSLVR 7y ago
      I half agree with parent and half agree with you. On one hand, economic models are political platforms. On the other hand all the -isms are very loaded topics due to decades of misrepresentation (as is the nature of politics). But, I think this post isn't the place to discuss it.
    - xnyan 7y ago
      Politics and economics are inseparably connected.
      - RandomBacon 7y ago
        Yes, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Capitalism is a way to describe market efficiency which is a good thing, but people are turning the word to mean a system where people hurt each other for profit. I agree people shouldn't hurt each other, but that doesn't mean we should redefine a word and abandon a system of marketplaces.
bosswipe 7y ago
The only reason you can block ads on the web is because there was a small window where the idealistic academics that built the internet and the web were able to keep commercial interests out so they were able to use open universal protocols. The same will not be true for VR.
- sneak 7y ago
  It’s already not true on mobile generally. No view source, no extensions, no user injected scripts. You get the page the server wants you to see.
  - dlbucci 7y ago
    Firefox on Android at least gives you add-ons (hello, uBlock Origin).
    - rescripting 7y ago
      Or DNS66 to do it for mostly everywhere in Android. The only reason that's possible is because of open web standards though so the point still stands.
  - gruez 7y ago
    Android: firefox for android, or the plethora of adblock browsers out there iOS: adblockers are natively supported through "content blockers", plus there's a plethora of adblock browsers
    - eloisius 7y ago
      But not possible in native apps which have largely supplanted the use of web pages.
      - lstamour 7y ago
        Users can still choose not to install native apps. For as long as the web remains free, I’ll happily support newspapers, magazines, YT Premium and Patreon with my dollars, while absolutely not using the apps with ads in them, in favour of using 3 different content blocking extensions in Safari, and Strict privacy mode in Edge with uBlock Origin on desktop. That said, because ads are inserted by third parties, you can often block ads with DNS and/or VPN. It’s a shame that iOS has never allowed changing the DNS while on mobile networks, though. Really though, I miss when we were building open standards for content though, like RSS and podcasts. Feels like a different era of the Internet, as we never saw an open standard take off for ChromeCast/AirPlay2 or the mentioned-on-stage open standards for FaceTime. Even the RIAA is trying to lock down music again by promoting MQA (Tidal) over FLAC (HDtracks, Amazon). Closest thing to “open” that I can think of recently for content would be HLS streaming, which optionally supports encryption, but is otherwise open to use or implement. Given recent history, I think it could go either way, but I doubt users will ever fully accept a closed web, so as long as the web provides open alternatives on every platform, we’ll still be in the clear... for now. :)
technofiend 7y ago
As desperately as much as I'd like there to be a compelling VR experience equivalent to 2d internet we have today there just isn't one. VR seems to be the exclusive domain of games. I can't imagine Facebook's Oculus graying out billboards unless it's to replace someone else's advertisement with their own.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
I would guess that VR googles that can gray out billboards, etc will likely first get used by governments to keep people from seeing protests. What would previously have been anti-government protestors will be changed by the googles to show them holding pro- government placards. Police brutality will be censored by the goggles. You will get in huge trouble if you go outside without your goggles.
dylan604 7y ago
> (My VR goggles will gray out billboards, etc.) I think it'll be the exact opposite. I think the Black Mirror episodes are closer to what will be in our (not too distant) future. The content will track your gaze, and if you are not looking at the ad, then measures will be taken to get your attention back to where "it should be".
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  The measures depicted in Black Mirror are straight up torture. Loud noise to punish people who refuse to look at advertisements? That level of abuse should be cause for violent resistance.
  - dylan604 7y ago
    Doubtful the sheeple would resist. That would take too much effort. It's just easier to watch the commercial. Wasn't there one that just paused the video, and would not continue until you watched the ad? The advertisers have to crawl before they can run. But if they had their way, loud noises would not be beyond their acceptable measures. I mean, they did spend all of that money producing the ad, so the least you can do is watch it.
    - ardy42 7y ago
      > Doubtful the sheeple would resist. That would take too much effort. It's just easier to watch the commercial. No, neo-Luddites will. If they aren't successful later generations will eventually forget how it was to not have coercive ads, so they won't have the same visceral response to the indignities they cause. Sort of like what happened with the market system.
- pixl97 7y ago
  >then measures will be taken to get your attention back to where "it should be". Please drink verification can.
grecy 7y ago
> It's like a creeping cancer that cannot be stopped Billboards are heavily regulated and sparse in New Zealand. It can be stopped, but it takes willpower and hard work.
- missedthecue 7y ago
  And a culture that has less respect for private property, for better or for worse. 4 states ban billboards fwiw
  - rollingbarreler 7y ago
    The use of your private property should not impede someone else's ability to use theirs. I don't think building airhorns is allowed either, because it really affects others. Or how you can't just build a kilometer high mirror setup that burns your neighborhood down

judge2020 7y ago

> My VR goggles will gray out billboards Only if the billboard doesn't qualify for "acceptable billboard ads" (or you could jailbreak and run a different billboard blocker like a rebel)

nordsieck 7y ago

> With ML, eventually this will become pervasive, even into the physical world. (My VR goggles will gray out billboards, etc.) Will your glasses grey out James Bond's Aston Martin in Goldfinger?

llukas 7y ago
With style transfer improving a bit they can make it any brand ;P
jagged-chisel 7y ago
Not really necessary unless Bond’s current fling proclaims “This is a truly astonishing automobile, James. From which dealer is it available, and are there any current incentives?”
- celeritascelery 7y ago
  If only advertising was so opaque.
downerending 7y ago
No, because it will be smart enough to know that I enjoy seeing that.
- blululu 7y ago
  This is the real dystopia. Ever talk to the adtech experts? The question they ask is how can we display the ads that people will enjoy seeing the most? Hence Instagram is effectively all ads.
  - downerending 7y ago
    I'm willing to try that. So far, I only see ads I hate. What ever happened to gold like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcWPusAmaWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcWPusAmaWI
    - grawprog 7y ago
      Those are just the ads you recognize. How many ads do you see in a day that you don't even recognize as ads because they're not obvious or obtrusive, they just subtly bring your attention to a product that you never would have thought or cared about without it. Quiet product placement, ads disguised as news, fluff science sponsored by corporations, then there's those big companies that create lifestyles around their brand and people become so entrenched in that company's products, they don't even think about the fact they've never even considered an alternative.

eranimo 7y ago

That cancer is called consumerism

egypturnash 7y ago
Also capitalism. Also maximizing quarterly investor returns at the cost of every other consideration.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  Please don't turn an economic model into a political platform.
  - eropple 7y ago
    When the economic model's enthusiastic practitioners turn it into a political platform, what's the rest of us supposed to do?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - BLKNSLVR 7y ago
    I half agree with parent and half agree with you. On one hand, economic models are political platforms. On the other hand all the -isms are very loaded topics due to decades of misrepresentation (as is the nature of politics). But, I think this post isn't the place to discuss it.
  - xnyan 7y ago
    Politics and economics are inseparably connected.
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      Yes, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Capitalism is a way to describe market efficiency which is a good thing, but people are turning the word to mean a system where people hurt each other for profit. I agree people shouldn't hurt each other, but that doesn't mean we should redefine a word and abandon a system of marketplaces.

bosswipe 7y ago

The only reason you can block ads on the web is because there was a small window where the idealistic academics that built the internet and the web were able to keep commercial interests out so they were able to use open universal protocols. The same will not be true for VR.

sneak 7y ago
It’s already not true on mobile generally. No view source, no extensions, no user injected scripts. You get the page the server wants you to see.
- dlbucci 7y ago
  Firefox on Android at least gives you add-ons (hello, uBlock Origin).
  - rescripting 7y ago
    Or DNS66 to do it for mostly everywhere in Android. The only reason that's possible is because of open web standards though so the point still stands.
- gruez 7y ago
  Android: firefox for android, or the plethora of adblock browsers out there iOS: adblockers are natively supported through "content blockers", plus there's a plethora of adblock browsers
  - eloisius 7y ago
    But not possible in native apps which have largely supplanted the use of web pages.
    - lstamour 7y ago
      Users can still choose not to install native apps. For as long as the web remains free, I’ll happily support newspapers, magazines, YT Premium and Patreon with my dollars, while absolutely not using the apps with ads in them, in favour of using 3 different content blocking extensions in Safari, and Strict privacy mode in Edge with uBlock Origin on desktop. That said, because ads are inserted by third parties, you can often block ads with DNS and/or VPN. It’s a shame that iOS has never allowed changing the DNS while on mobile networks, though. Really though, I miss when we were building open standards for content though, like RSS and podcasts. Feels like a different era of the Internet, as we never saw an open standard take off for ChromeCast/AirPlay2 or the mentioned-on-stage open standards for FaceTime. Even the RIAA is trying to lock down music again by promoting MQA (Tidal) over FLAC (HDtracks, Amazon). Closest thing to “open” that I can think of recently for content would be HLS streaming, which optionally supports encryption, but is otherwise open to use or implement. Given recent history, I think it could go either way, but I doubt users will ever fully accept a closed web, so as long as the web provides open alternatives on every platform, we’ll still be in the clear... for now. :)

technofiend 7y ago

As desperately as much as I'd like there to be a compelling VR experience equivalent to 2d internet we have today there just isn't one. VR seems to be the exclusive domain of games. I can't imagine Facebook's Oculus graying out billboards unless it's to replace someone else's advertisement with their own.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

I would guess that VR googles that can gray out billboards, etc will likely first get used by governments to keep people from seeing protests. What would previously have been anti-government protestors will be changed by the googles to show them holding pro- government placards. Police brutality will be censored by the goggles. You will get in huge trouble if you go outside without your goggles.

dylan604 7y ago

> (My VR goggles will gray out billboards, etc.) I think it'll be the exact opposite. I think the Black Mirror episodes are closer to what will be in our (not too distant) future. The content will track your gaze, and if you are not looking at the ad, then measures will be taken to get your attention back to where "it should be".

matheusmoreira 7y ago
The measures depicted in Black Mirror are straight up torture. Loud noise to punish people who refuse to look at advertisements? That level of abuse should be cause for violent resistance.
- dylan604 7y ago
  Doubtful the sheeple would resist. That would take too much effort. It's just easier to watch the commercial. Wasn't there one that just paused the video, and would not continue until you watched the ad? The advertisers have to crawl before they can run. But if they had their way, loud noises would not be beyond their acceptable measures. I mean, they did spend all of that money producing the ad, so the least you can do is watch it.
  - ardy42 7y ago
    > Doubtful the sheeple would resist. That would take too much effort. It's just easier to watch the commercial. No, neo-Luddites will. If they aren't successful later generations will eventually forget how it was to not have coercive ads, so they won't have the same visceral response to the indignities they cause. Sort of like what happened with the market system.
pixl97 7y ago
>then measures will be taken to get your attention back to where "it should be". Please drink verification can.

grecy 7y ago

> It's like a creeping cancer that cannot be stopped Billboards are heavily regulated and sparse in New Zealand. It can be stopped, but it takes willpower and hard work.

missedthecue 7y ago
And a culture that has less respect for private property, for better or for worse. 4 states ban billboards fwiw
- rollingbarreler 7y ago
  The use of your private property should not impede someone else's ability to use theirs. I don't think building airhorns is allowed either, because it really affects others. Or how you can't just build a kilometer high mirror setup that burns your neighborhood down