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Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag

59 points by chirau 7y ago

Dylan16807 7y ago
> It was not immediately clear if the ban would apply to clothing and cars owned by Marines when they are off base and off duty. The Marine Corps did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday. Ha. The one thing I was curious about that wasn't in the title, and the article doesn't have an answer. Edit: Now that I'm at multiple downvotes, I'm kind of confused, anyone want to explain? I'm quoting a useful part of the article and making a comment directly about its content and the quality of the journalism, so what's so bad?
- joecool1029 7y ago
  Nobody likes the flippant attitude, that's why you're getting downvoted. As for questioning the quality of the journalism, they requested the information from the military and the military chose not to respond. What more do you expect out of them? If they wanted to speculate in an op-ed, they'd probably write something to the effect that it's very unlikely that the military (or government in general) can restrict citizens from displaying whatever they want off-duty. This is 1st amendment but comes with a strong caveat that it's as long as there's no association with the US military. Basically nothing to suggest the military endorses their speech/beliefs or that the message they are transmitting comes from the military in any way.
- renewiltord 7y ago
  Since you asked: I'm downvoting because your statement is not of use to me and it gets in the way of things that are of use.
zrail 7y ago
Good.
renewiltord 7y ago
The Commandant's rationale makes sense. One nation, united.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cmurf 7y ago
Meanwhile, a minimum of six states still publicly display variations on flags of the Confederacy as their official state flags. https://extras.denverpost.com/flags/ https://extras.denverpost.com/flags/
- twic 7y ago
  Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi certainly do. North Carolina's is based their own secessionist flag, not the Confederate flag. Arkansas's flag is not a variation on the Confederate flag; there is a star that represents the Confederacy, but then there are stars that represent France and Spain as well! Tennessee's flag is not a variation on a Confederate flag. That page says as much.
joecool1029 7y ago
I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag after they defeated them. It makes about as much sense as flying the anarchist's flag while serving in a state military. I'm wondering as well if the branches use any of the conquered peoples' flags, like various Native American nations. I couldn't find anything on the web about it.
- marktangotango 7y ago
  > I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag The present article gives no instances of Marine Corp units flying the confederate flag in an official capacity, do you have sources for this? The article is about banning its display such as via tattoos, pickup truck rear windows, apparel like hats and shirts by marine Corp members. Generally these thing are only enforced on base or during deployment. I do know some state run military schools had a history of displaying the confederate flag, but they’re not Federal institutions.
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    Apologies, I had conflated the flying of Confederate streamers formerly with the US Army and Navy[1] and later (and still currently) with various state national guards[2]. Also a decent blog post on the topic: https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-the-u-s-army-the-civil-war-and-memory/ https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-th... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confederate_Service_Campaign_Streamers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confedera...
- jariel 7y ago
  One of the poorest imaginable ways to frame the subject. 'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces. Totems, elements of the local culture, flags are more common than not even in Colonial regalia. Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.
blendo 7y ago
I'm reminded of the repeal in 2011's of the US military's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (despite John McCain's filibuster), as well as President Truman's 1948 directive to integrate the armed services. The US military has always been remarkably influential, as we see when important issues of public affairs can be moved by a purely military decision. Perhaps we shouldn't rely on a warrior elite so much? (ex-USAF enlisted here)
stevespang 7y ago
The confederate flag will simply go "underground" in certain groups of marines lives . . . the "politically correct" bureaucrats are upending the status quo again.

59 points by chirau 7y ago

> It was not immediately clear if the ban would apply to clothing and cars owned by Marines when they are off base and off duty. The Marine Corps did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday. Ha. The one thing I was curious about that wasn't in the title, and the article doesn't have an answer. Edit: Now that I'm at multiple downvotes, I'm kind of confused, anyone want to explain? I'm quoting a useful part of the article and making a comment directly about its content and the quality of the journalism, so what's so bad?

joecool1029 7y ago
Nobody likes the flippant attitude, that's why you're getting downvoted. As for questioning the quality of the journalism, they requested the information from the military and the military chose not to respond. What more do you expect out of them? If they wanted to speculate in an op-ed, they'd probably write something to the effect that it's very unlikely that the military (or government in general) can restrict citizens from displaying whatever they want off-duty. This is 1st amendment but comes with a strong caveat that it's as long as there's no association with the US military. Basically nothing to suggest the military endorses their speech/beliefs or that the message they are transmitting comes from the military in any way.
renewiltord 7y ago
Since you asked: I'm downvoting because your statement is not of use to me and it gets in the way of things that are of use.

zrail 7y ago

Good.

renewiltord 7y ago

The Commandant's rationale makes sense. One nation, united.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cmurf 7y ago

Meanwhile, a minimum of six states still publicly display variations on flags of the Confederacy as their official state flags. https://extras.denverpost.com/flags/ https://extras.denverpost.com/flags/

twic 7y ago
Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi certainly do. North Carolina's is based their own secessionist flag, not the Confederate flag. Arkansas's flag is not a variation on the Confederate flag; there is a star that represents the Confederacy, but then there are stars that represent France and Spain as well! Tennessee's flag is not a variation on a Confederate flag. That page says as much.

joecool1029 7y ago

I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag after they defeated them. It makes about as much sense as flying the anarchist's flag while serving in a state military. I'm wondering as well if the branches use any of the conquered peoples' flags, like various Native American nations. I couldn't find anything on the web about it.

marktangotango 7y ago
> I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag The present article gives no instances of Marine Corp units flying the confederate flag in an official capacity, do you have sources for this? The article is about banning its display such as via tattoos, pickup truck rear windows, apparel like hats and shirts by marine Corp members. Generally these thing are only enforced on base or during deployment. I do know some state run military schools had a history of displaying the confederate flag, but they’re not Federal institutions.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  Apologies, I had conflated the flying of Confederate streamers formerly with the US Army and Navy[1] and later (and still currently) with various state national guards[2]. Also a decent blog post on the topic: https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-the-u-s-army-the-civil-war-and-memory/ https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-th... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confederate_Service_Campaign_Streamers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confedera...
jariel 7y ago
One of the poorest imaginable ways to frame the subject. 'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces. Totems, elements of the local culture, flags are more common than not even in Colonial regalia. Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

blendo 7y ago

I'm reminded of the repeal in 2011's of the US military's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (despite John McCain's filibuster), as well as President Truman's 1948 directive to integrate the armed services. The US military has always been remarkably influential, as we see when important issues of public affairs can be moved by a purely military decision. Perhaps we shouldn't rely on a warrior elite so much? (ex-USAF enlisted here)

stevespang 7y ago

The confederate flag will simply go "underground" in certain groups of marines lives . . . the "politically correct" bureaucrats are upending the status quo again.