5 ms·

A MacBook SE could also destroy a lot of market for MacBooks and MacBook Airs...

by LeifCarrotson 7y ago

disiplus 7y ago
what if they put ios on it and not a full macos
- Hamuko 7y ago
  Then it's an iPad.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  What if they wait until all the early adopters have bought iPad Pros with magic keyboards, then release a more affordable keyboard/trackpad combo for iPad Air, and not just for iPad Pro? In essence, they already have almost everything they need, but in a new form factor. And while an iPad on a stand is less nimble than a very thin screen, detachability and a better camera are very strong features for casual buyers.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 7y ago
  They could also make the keyboard detachable so it becomes pad-like and name it MacPad.
- grey-area 7y ago
  The two are getting closer and closer. Witness the gradual creep of iOS apps onto Mac OS int he last couple of iterations. This will continue: https://www.cnet.com/news/macos-catalinas-ipad-apps-for-the-mac-are-here-but-the-story-is-just-getting-started/ https://www.cnet.com/news/macos-catalinas-ipad-apps-for-the-... At some point they will merge iOS and Mac OS, given that iOS makes them all the money, and is now capable enough (with a different UI toolkit) to provide both phone and desktop programs.
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    >At some point they will merge iOS and Mac OS And just outright kill a bunch of applications?
    - grey-area 7y ago
      Yes, as they eventually did with the OS X transition, the 64bit transition etc They'll support older apps for a long time though, it just won't be the preferred sdk and will gradually be phased out. The situation they have right now is madness - two parallel slightly different UI toolkits and SDKs, one of which makes vastly more money.
      - Hamuko 7y ago
        >two parallel slightly different UI toolkits and SDKs, one of which makes vastly more money. And one which has a longer history. Should every Cocoa application be written in UIKit to continue working?
        grey-area 7y ago
        Yes, in the same way as all Pascal apps had to be rewritten to the C API a long time ago, and all Mac OS 9 apps had to be rewritten as cocoa (NextStep), or all Objective-C apps will have to be rewritten as Swift as that is the new blessed SDK. In practice it won't be a huge burden as older apps will not be phased out for a long time - see the Objective-C to Swift transition - there will be a very long transition period. I'm not saying this is great for developers, I'm saying it makes economic sense for Apple and the signs are they are moving in this direction.
  - jki275 7y ago
    What do you mean by “merge”? iOS and macOS are the same thing. iOS (with a different UI toolkit) is macOS.
    - grey-area 7y ago
      I mean they'll have one App and UI toolkit (probably based off ios) which handles both desktop and ios, simplifying development, making cross platform apps easier, and dramatically cutting support costs for Apple. At the moment the base OS is the same but the huge SDK used to create apps has two parallel tracks without a huge amount of overlap (though they are increasing the overlap, and encouraging things like porting from ios to Mac OS). Each SDK takes a lot of resources to maintain and support.
      - jki275 7y ago
        I don't think they'll ever do that. They would lose a significant majority of those of us who use Mac laptops to develop real software. They'll make cross-platform development between iOS and macOS easier, they're already doing that -- but getting rid of macOS (which is essentially what you're saying) isn't smart for them.
goatinaboat 7y ago
For the users who really just need a browser yes, but conventional laptops are overpowered for those use cases. Strip out the JavaScript, tracking etc and a browser’s CPU and memory requirements are actually pretty minimal. Not for users who need to run native apps for which there will be years of lead time to port.
bluescrn 7y ago
The announcement of an imminent transition to ARM could destroy the market for all existing Intel Macs.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  I suspect Tim Cook is old enough to remember "The Osborne Effect" quite keenly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect That being said, like many urban legends, there is quite a bit of doubt as to whether the company's demise was caused by the pre-announcement, rather than by the fact that Osborne was trying to leverage its lead into bigger margins, without offering more computer for the dollar.
- jedieaston 7y ago
  It didn't last time. Jobs went on stage to announce that Apple was starting a 2-year move to x86 from PPC, showed off a developer kit, then proceeded to announce a few more PowerPC products that were sold in the mean time. If they play it the same way this time and provide developer tools to make the transition easy-peasy, there's no reason it won't work fine.
  - solarkraft 7y ago
    I suppose the most important question regarding the potential success this time is: Can they emulate with as little performance loss as last time?

A MacBook SE could also destroy a lot of market for MacBooks and MacBook Airs...

disiplus 7y ago

what if they put ios on it and not a full macos

Hamuko 7y ago
Then it's an iPad.
braythwayt 7y ago
What if they wait until all the early adopters have bought iPad Pros with magic keyboards, then release a more affordable keyboard/trackpad combo for iPad Air, and not just for iPad Pro? In essence, they already have almost everything they need, but in a new form factor. And while an iPad on a stand is less nimble than a very thin screen, detachability and a better camera are very strong features for casual buyers.
tqkxzugoaupvwqr 7y ago
They could also make the keyboard detachable so it becomes pad-like and name it MacPad.
grey-area 7y ago
The two are getting closer and closer. Witness the gradual creep of iOS apps onto Mac OS int he last couple of iterations. This will continue: https://www.cnet.com/news/macos-catalinas-ipad-apps-for-the-mac-are-here-but-the-story-is-just-getting-started/ https://www.cnet.com/news/macos-catalinas-ipad-apps-for-the-... At some point they will merge iOS and Mac OS, given that iOS makes them all the money, and is now capable enough (with a different UI toolkit) to provide both phone and desktop programs.
- Hamuko 7y ago
  >At some point they will merge iOS and Mac OS And just outright kill a bunch of applications?
  - grey-area 7y ago
    Yes, as they eventually did with the OS X transition, the 64bit transition etc They'll support older apps for a long time though, it just won't be the preferred sdk and will gradually be phased out. The situation they have right now is madness - two parallel slightly different UI toolkits and SDKs, one of which makes vastly more money.
    - Hamuko 7y ago
      >two parallel slightly different UI toolkits and SDKs, one of which makes vastly more money. And one which has a longer history. Should every Cocoa application be written in UIKit to continue working?
      - grey-area 7y ago
        Yes, in the same way as all Pascal apps had to be rewritten to the C API a long time ago, and all Mac OS 9 apps had to be rewritten as cocoa (NextStep), or all Objective-C apps will have to be rewritten as Swift as that is the new blessed SDK. In practice it won't be a huge burden as older apps will not be phased out for a long time - see the Objective-C to Swift transition - there will be a very long transition period. I'm not saying this is great for developers, I'm saying it makes economic sense for Apple and the signs are they are moving in this direction.
- jki275 7y ago
  What do you mean by “merge”? iOS and macOS are the same thing. iOS (with a different UI toolkit) is macOS.
  - grey-area 7y ago
    I mean they'll have one App and UI toolkit (probably based off ios) which handles both desktop and ios, simplifying development, making cross platform apps easier, and dramatically cutting support costs for Apple. At the moment the base OS is the same but the huge SDK used to create apps has two parallel tracks without a huge amount of overlap (though they are increasing the overlap, and encouraging things like porting from ios to Mac OS). Each SDK takes a lot of resources to maintain and support.
    - jki275 7y ago
      I don't think they'll ever do that. They would lose a significant majority of those of us who use Mac laptops to develop real software. They'll make cross-platform development between iOS and macOS easier, they're already doing that -- but getting rid of macOS (which is essentially what you're saying) isn't smart for them.

goatinaboat 7y ago

For the users who really just need a browser yes, but conventional laptops are overpowered for those use cases. Strip out the JavaScript, tracking etc and a browser’s CPU and memory requirements are actually pretty minimal. Not for users who need to run native apps for which there will be years of lead time to port.

bluescrn 7y ago

The announcement of an imminent transition to ARM could destroy the market for all existing Intel Macs.

braythwayt 7y ago
I suspect Tim Cook is old enough to remember "The Osborne Effect" quite keenly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect That being said, like many urban legends, there is quite a bit of doubt as to whether the company's demise was caused by the pre-announcement, rather than by the fact that Osborne was trying to leverage its lead into bigger margins, without offering more computer for the dollar.
jedieaston 7y ago
It didn't last time. Jobs went on stage to announce that Apple was starting a 2-year move to x86 from PPC, showed off a developer kit, then proceeded to announce a few more PowerPC products that were sold in the mean time. If they play it the same way this time and provide developer tools to make the transition easy-peasy, there's no reason it won't work fine.
- solarkraft 7y ago
  I suppose the most important question regarding the potential success this time is: Can they emulate with as little performance loss as last time?