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I'm pretty shocked by the lack of empathy here. Do any of these people railing against affirmative action really think that Native/African/Hispanic Americans s

by rurabe 6y ago

I'm pretty shocked by the lack of empathy here. Do any of these people railing against affirmative action really think that Native/African/Hispanic Americans should be locked in a self-reinforcing cycle of declining educational and economic outcomes? Maybe going to your second choice school is an ok tradeoff for trying to raise and entire segment of society from relative poverty and discrimination. * Am Asian, got rejected by Stanford and Harvard

hhsuey 6y ago
> Maybe going to your second choice school is an ok tradeoff for trying to raise and entire segment of society from relative poverty and discrimination. this is inaccurate in many ways
liaukovv 6y ago
Should weak cultures be let fail and die off or should they be dragged by society forever?
AuryGlenz 6y ago
Then it should be based on poverty, not race. The people that didn’t deserve to get in to those top tier schools can make just as much money after graduating from a “lesser” school.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- freepor 6y ago
  I live in a $3 million house and would be COMPLETELY OK with my kids being rejected from their dream schools for poverty-linked affirmative action. They have a vastly easier path to academic achievement, and if they got 90 points on a test and a poor kid got 80 points, that other kid just plain old outperformed them. You'll find a lot of us out there who are vehemently opposed to race-based affirmative action but would enthusiastically support wealth/class-based affirmative action.
  - alibaba_x 6y ago
    The fact that you would be willing to sacrifice your children’s future for “the Greater Good” is deeply troubling to me. I would want the best for my kids even at the expense of social justice and the common good.
    - freepor 6y ago
      I don’t think making my children compete fairly with others is sacrificing their future, quite the opposite. If they will ever achieve anything meaningful they’ll need to build their own engine instead of just riding on the skis that I’ve greased underneath them.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
mydongle 6y ago
It's so amusing how when Asians ask for respect and equal treatment in American society, that we get painted as uppity and are told we should step aside for others. Even by our own group, who have been raised in that American society to think this way. Look, if you want to make the argument that more disadvantaged people should be given the leg up, I totally agree. What I disagree with is the way people think it's okay to ask Asians to settle for less, to step aside, or to leave if they don't like it when they would never treat any other minority this way. This is why they can put us into internment camps. No one cares.
mydongle 6y ago
On another note, what makes you think Asian Americans aren't being discriminated against at their second or third choice schools either? You need to stop thinking this is a fight between Asian Americans and other disadvantaged groups. The fight is about Asian Americans being systemically treated unfairly in American society. It is not acceptable. It wouldn't even be up for debate if we were talking about any other disadvantaged group. Not all Asians come from wealthy families and are trying to get into Harvard.
- rurabe 6y ago
  I mean you're half right here, but who do you really think in American society is doing that much better than Asians? Hispanics? African Americans? Women? The poor? The middle class for that matter? The reality is that rich, white men have been entrenched in power since long before American society was a thing. You might consider whether retreating into tribalism and picking a fight over affirmative action is eroding or entrenching that advantage by dividing the consensus to change it. https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17031460/affirmative-action-asian-discrimination-admissions https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17031460/affirmative-action-as...
  - mydongle 6y ago
    It's not about tribalism or picking a fight over affirmative action. It's about being treated fairly. We don't call African Americans or Hispanics coming together tribalism. They're just justifiably fighting for their rights. But when Asians want to be treated fairer, it's tribalism now? It's wrong when Asians ask for justice? There must be a way for all disadvantaged peoples to be treated fairly under the law. I reject the idea and seeming consensus that American society has come to in deciding that it's Asians who should be thrown under the bus in favor of other groups, even though on an individual level, many impoverished Asian people are being passed in favor of other people from wealthy families who happen to be the favored race/ethnicity at the time. Equality.
    - rurabe 6y ago
      Thrown under the bus? Asians have by far the highest household income of all racial groups in the US[1]. Where's the beef? Is it fair to be born into a racial group thats 50% or 25% less likely to earn a degree?[2] Perhaps taking a person's circumstances into consideration, while narrowly and individually unfair, is actually fairer in a broader sense. That goes for race, socio-economic status, and whatever else impairs your opportunities. It's just disappointing to see the victimization being thrown around here, especially in contrast to the groups being vilified. The sad truth is that a sense of empathy and being able to see the bigger picture will get you a lot farther in life than the words on your diploma. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity_and_race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...
ramblerman 6y ago
> Do any of these people railing against affirmative action really think that Native/African/Hispanic Americans should be locked in a self-reinforcing cycle of declining educational and economic outcomes? Of course not, and it's a terrible strawman argument to frame this as a simple dichotomy of "agree with positive discrimination" or "condemn black people to poverty for ever" There are many roads to try and resolve this, personally I think it should be bottom up. Instead of the easy political points of enforcing a few quotas on universities and companies.

by rurabe 6y ago

hhsuey 6y ago

> Maybe going to your second choice school is an ok tradeoff for trying to raise and entire segment of society from relative poverty and discrimination. this is inaccurate in many ways

liaukovv 6y ago

Should weak cultures be let fail and die off or should they be dragged by society forever?

AuryGlenz 6y ago

Then it should be based on poverty, not race. The people that didn’t deserve to get in to those top tier schools can make just as much money after graduating from a “lesser” school.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
freepor 6y ago
I live in a $3 million house and would be COMPLETELY OK with my kids being rejected from their dream schools for poverty-linked affirmative action. They have a vastly easier path to academic achievement, and if they got 90 points on a test and a poor kid got 80 points, that other kid just plain old outperformed them. You'll find a lot of us out there who are vehemently opposed to race-based affirmative action but would enthusiastically support wealth/class-based affirmative action.
- alibaba_x 6y ago
  The fact that you would be willing to sacrifice your children’s future for “the Greater Good” is deeply troubling to me. I would want the best for my kids even at the expense of social justice and the common good.
  - freepor 6y ago
    I don’t think making my children compete fairly with others is sacrificing their future, quite the opposite. If they will ever achieve anything meaningful they’ll need to build their own engine instead of just riding on the skis that I’ve greased underneath them.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

mydongle 6y ago

It's so amusing how when Asians ask for respect and equal treatment in American society, that we get painted as uppity and are told we should step aside for others. Even by our own group, who have been raised in that American society to think this way. Look, if you want to make the argument that more disadvantaged people should be given the leg up, I totally agree. What I disagree with is the way people think it's okay to ask Asians to settle for less, to step aside, or to leave if they don't like it when they would never treat any other minority this way. This is why they can put us into internment camps. No one cares.

mydongle 6y ago

On another note, what makes you think Asian Americans aren't being discriminated against at their second or third choice schools either? You need to stop thinking this is a fight between Asian Americans and other disadvantaged groups. The fight is about Asian Americans being systemically treated unfairly in American society. It is not acceptable. It wouldn't even be up for debate if we were talking about any other disadvantaged group. Not all Asians come from wealthy families and are trying to get into Harvard.

rurabe 6y ago
I mean you're half right here, but who do you really think in American society is doing that much better than Asians? Hispanics? African Americans? Women? The poor? The middle class for that matter? The reality is that rich, white men have been entrenched in power since long before American society was a thing. You might consider whether retreating into tribalism and picking a fight over affirmative action is eroding or entrenching that advantage by dividing the consensus to change it. https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17031460/affirmative-action-asian-discrimination-admissions https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17031460/affirmative-action-as...
- mydongle 6y ago
  It's not about tribalism or picking a fight over affirmative action. It's about being treated fairly. We don't call African Americans or Hispanics coming together tribalism. They're just justifiably fighting for their rights. But when Asians want to be treated fairer, it's tribalism now? It's wrong when Asians ask for justice? There must be a way for all disadvantaged peoples to be treated fairly under the law. I reject the idea and seeming consensus that American society has come to in deciding that it's Asians who should be thrown under the bus in favor of other groups, even though on an individual level, many impoverished Asian people are being passed in favor of other people from wealthy families who happen to be the favored race/ethnicity at the time. Equality.
  - rurabe 6y ago
    Thrown under the bus? Asians have by far the highest household income of all racial groups in the US[1]. Where's the beef? Is it fair to be born into a racial group thats 50% or 25% less likely to earn a degree?[2] Perhaps taking a person's circumstances into consideration, while narrowly and individually unfair, is actually fairer in a broader sense. That goes for race, socio-economic status, and whatever else impairs your opportunities. It's just disappointing to see the victimization being thrown around here, especially in contrast to the groups being vilified. The sad truth is that a sense of empathy and being able to see the bigger picture will get you a lot farther in life than the words on your diploma. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity_and_race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...

ramblerman 6y ago

> Do any of these people railing against affirmative action really think that Native/African/Hispanic Americans should be locked in a self-reinforcing cycle of declining educational and economic outcomes? Of course not, and it's a terrible strawman argument to frame this as a simple dichotomy of "agree with positive discrimination" or "condemn black people to poverty for ever" There are many roads to try and resolve this, personally I think it should be bottom up. Instead of the easy political points of enforcing a few quotas on universities and companies.