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This really looks like a solution in search of a problem. The cloud storage market is already pretty efficient and we are expected to believe that adding a bunc

This really looks like a solution in search of a problem. The cloud storage market is already pretty efficient and we are expected to believe that adding a bunch of inefficiency and complexity will result in a better product?

drcode 7y ago
This system is going after the dream where everyone can earn extra money by letting other people use spare space on their hard drives. In theory, I think it could offer "cloud storage" at orders of magnitude lower cost than other offerings- This would certainly be desirable. The problem is, people have been trying to build this sort of system for many years, so any proposed system is likely to fail when put into operation & therefore has an enormous burden to prove they've overcome the many fatal flaws that existed in previous systems.
- ajayyy 7y ago
  Sia has been around for years doing this for backups
  - api 7y ago
    Sia is one of the few ICO projects that seems to actually work, but it gets zero attention.
    - nemo1618 7y ago
      Yep, we fell for the "good products sell themselves" meme. :/ As engineers, we felt uncomfortable promising the moon like so many other ICOs did (and still do). Blockchain-wise, the system we built was actually very conservative: aside from the file contract payment channels, our consensus design doesn't stray far from Bitcoin. As it turns out, the blockchain is the easy part! The hard part is, once you've got your network of hosts, how do you turn that into a truly great product? Sia is crazy cheap, it streams video at 1Gbps, it's got plenty of 9s, but those metrics don't mean anything in a vacuum. We've finally hit upon a more user-friendly product in Skynet, and we're doing a lot more PR this time, but we've still got a long way to go.
      - api 7y ago
        I really wish you well. Makes me consider actually trying Sia for our backups, which would make this the first time I or anyone else I know has actually used a block chain product in production... or for much of anything for that matter. The block chain world is absolutely overrun with over-funded over-specced over-engineered boil the ocean projects that will never ship anything usable, solutions in search of problems, stuff that just plain doesn't work for fundamental math/algorithmic reasons, and of course a ton of outright scams. All of these are loud and lean heavy on the hype because they have nothing else. Just keep working and you will emerge once the dust settles. Not saying forget about marketing, but focus more on product.
      - vinniejames 7y ago
        Do you have any budget left for a sales team? I can speak from experience they are essential for most startups
  - drcode 7y ago
    I don't really want to hijack this discussion by discussing merits (or lack thereof) of other cryptocurrencies. Maybe post a link on HN for the cryptoeconomics of this other project and then we can discuss it there?
    - ajayyy 7y ago
      It's meant for private encrypted backups instead of public distributed files, so it is less complicated. The users just pay the people who store it through a contract.
      - yupyup54133 7y ago
        That is also not true. On Sia you can have: * private encrypted backups * public distributed files * public encrypted distributed files
    - aspenmayer 7y ago
      You opened the door to this avenue of discussion by implying or suggesting by omission or dismissal that no successful implementation currently exists. The existence and purported demonstration of work of Sia is not yet proven. I’ve never heard of Sia before now, and I will research it now that I know that it’s a thing to study. But I digress. It’s contrary to parliamentary procedure and rules of debate to make a statement in order to back up your own point and not admit counterexamples and discussion of said statement and it’s implications as well as it’s intent and factual basis in the current reality we all share, regardless of which parts of it are presently up for debate. You would have us not be informed about relevant contextual information regarding a point you yourself brought up, just so we don’t derail a discussion you yourself are replying to? We’re all valid commenters with valid comments provided we have something relevant to say.
- hinkley 7y ago
  It doesn't have to be making money, it can just be saving it. The idea behind many of these protocols is that people with bursty traffic should be able to exchange bandwidth over time for peak heavy traffic during exceptional events. Be that running an obscure website that gets flash traffic, or pushing out backups you hope you never need, until you need them all at once. So the question is does your cloud provider end up charging you for your average traffic per year or your peak traffic, and that depends on base rates and overage rates. Even if protocols like this just exert downward pressure on those rate tables, we all win.
- Nursie 7y ago
  The problem is likely an insurmountable one - If you can offer storage to someone on your spare capacity in such a way that you make any money at all from it, it's likely that the cloud vendors with their economy of scale and cheap electricity can undercut you and capture the market. Unfortunately for the dream, centralisation offers efficiencies and reliability that are hard or impossible to match. It may help drive their prices down though.
xlc0212 7y ago
I have many personal files and wanting make sure they are accessible for rest of my life. Please tell me a platform that can provide this solution and why I can trust it?
- corporateslave5 7y ago
  Aws s3
  - xlc0212 7y ago
    why should i believe it is still going to offer my service after 30 years?
    - vinniejames 7y ago
      Why should I believe IPFS will still be running in 30 years?
      - product50 7y ago
        Because it is a decentralized protocol - like email
        risho 7y ago
        just because something exists in some form today and is decentralized doesn't mean it will stand the test of time. the internet is a graveyard of abandoned and failed projects and protocols.
        garmaine 7y ago
        Have you ever tried downloading an old torrent, typically lacking persistent seeders?
  - julianeon 7y ago
    For people who don't pay too much attention to storage: AWS S3 is a technical wonder, bringing down the price of storage to practically unbeatable levels. It's really a jewel in the crown of the AWS service portfolio. In terms of the amount you get metered down to the penny, it may be the single most impressive thing on AWS, honestly. If it costs me $1 to store my stuff per month on S3, and you reduce that... so what? It's so cheap it's not going to help my wallet much. This isn't like going from $100 to $2- or even $50 to $20. It's going from like $10/year to... I dunno, $4. I might as well stay on AWS. That leaves the enterprise market, which, naturally, loves S3 100x more than the random individual, because S3 is a solid enterprise choice, and will always have the enterprise advantage, by a crushing margin. AWS is itself hard to compete with, but of all the services you could compete with on AWS, S3 is probably the worst. So you're going up against the worst of the worst, here. I can't say it's impossible, but it's like an extra double hard market to compete in, in an already tough market.
Proven 7y ago
> This really looks like a solution in search of a problem. That's right. There's no shortage of (way more) efficient and cheaper public storage services that require a fraction of the management effort. But those who purchased filecoin need to hype it up and offload it to those who think they missed out on the next big thing.

drcode 7y ago

This system is going after the dream where everyone can earn extra money by letting other people use spare space on their hard drives. In theory, I think it could offer "cloud storage" at orders of magnitude lower cost than other offerings- This would certainly be desirable. The problem is, people have been trying to build this sort of system for many years, so any proposed system is likely to fail when put into operation & therefore has an enormous burden to prove they've overcome the many fatal flaws that existed in previous systems.

ajayyy 7y ago
Sia has been around for years doing this for backups
- api 7y ago
  Sia is one of the few ICO projects that seems to actually work, but it gets zero attention.
  - nemo1618 7y ago
    Yep, we fell for the "good products sell themselves" meme. :/ As engineers, we felt uncomfortable promising the moon like so many other ICOs did (and still do). Blockchain-wise, the system we built was actually very conservative: aside from the file contract payment channels, our consensus design doesn't stray far from Bitcoin. As it turns out, the blockchain is the easy part! The hard part is, once you've got your network of hosts, how do you turn that into a truly great product? Sia is crazy cheap, it streams video at 1Gbps, it's got plenty of 9s, but those metrics don't mean anything in a vacuum. We've finally hit upon a more user-friendly product in Skynet, and we're doing a lot more PR this time, but we've still got a long way to go.
    - api 7y ago
      I really wish you well. Makes me consider actually trying Sia for our backups, which would make this the first time I or anyone else I know has actually used a block chain product in production... or for much of anything for that matter. The block chain world is absolutely overrun with over-funded over-specced over-engineered boil the ocean projects that will never ship anything usable, solutions in search of problems, stuff that just plain doesn't work for fundamental math/algorithmic reasons, and of course a ton of outright scams. All of these are loud and lean heavy on the hype because they have nothing else. Just keep working and you will emerge once the dust settles. Not saying forget about marketing, but focus more on product.
    - vinniejames 7y ago
      Do you have any budget left for a sales team? I can speak from experience they are essential for most startups
- drcode 7y ago
  I don't really want to hijack this discussion by discussing merits (or lack thereof) of other cryptocurrencies. Maybe post a link on HN for the cryptoeconomics of this other project and then we can discuss it there?
  - ajayyy 7y ago
    It's meant for private encrypted backups instead of public distributed files, so it is less complicated. The users just pay the people who store it through a contract.
    - yupyup54133 7y ago
      That is also not true. On Sia you can have: * private encrypted backups * public distributed files * public encrypted distributed files
  - aspenmayer 7y ago
    You opened the door to this avenue of discussion by implying or suggesting by omission or dismissal that no successful implementation currently exists. The existence and purported demonstration of work of Sia is not yet proven. I’ve never heard of Sia before now, and I will research it now that I know that it’s a thing to study. But I digress. It’s contrary to parliamentary procedure and rules of debate to make a statement in order to back up your own point and not admit counterexamples and discussion of said statement and it’s implications as well as it’s intent and factual basis in the current reality we all share, regardless of which parts of it are presently up for debate. You would have us not be informed about relevant contextual information regarding a point you yourself brought up, just so we don’t derail a discussion you yourself are replying to? We’re all valid commenters with valid comments provided we have something relevant to say.
hinkley 7y ago
It doesn't have to be making money, it can just be saving it. The idea behind many of these protocols is that people with bursty traffic should be able to exchange bandwidth over time for peak heavy traffic during exceptional events. Be that running an obscure website that gets flash traffic, or pushing out backups you hope you never need, until you need them all at once. So the question is does your cloud provider end up charging you for your average traffic per year or your peak traffic, and that depends on base rates and overage rates. Even if protocols like this just exert downward pressure on those rate tables, we all win.
Nursie 7y ago
The problem is likely an insurmountable one - If you can offer storage to someone on your spare capacity in such a way that you make any money at all from it, it's likely that the cloud vendors with their economy of scale and cheap electricity can undercut you and capture the market. Unfortunately for the dream, centralisation offers efficiencies and reliability that are hard or impossible to match. It may help drive their prices down though.

xlc0212 7y ago

I have many personal files and wanting make sure they are accessible for rest of my life. Please tell me a platform that can provide this solution and why I can trust it?

corporateslave5 7y ago
Aws s3
- xlc0212 7y ago
  why should i believe it is still going to offer my service after 30 years?
  - vinniejames 7y ago
    Why should I believe IPFS will still be running in 30 years?
    - product50 7y ago
      Because it is a decentralized protocol - like email
      - risho 7y ago
        just because something exists in some form today and is decentralized doesn't mean it will stand the test of time. the internet is a graveyard of abandoned and failed projects and protocols.
      - garmaine 7y ago
        Have you ever tried downloading an old torrent, typically lacking persistent seeders?
- julianeon 7y ago
  For people who don't pay too much attention to storage: AWS S3 is a technical wonder, bringing down the price of storage to practically unbeatable levels. It's really a jewel in the crown of the AWS service portfolio. In terms of the amount you get metered down to the penny, it may be the single most impressive thing on AWS, honestly. If it costs me $1 to store my stuff per month on S3, and you reduce that... so what? It's so cheap it's not going to help my wallet much. This isn't like going from $100 to $2- or even $50 to $20. It's going from like $10/year to... I dunno, $4. I might as well stay on AWS. That leaves the enterprise market, which, naturally, loves S3 100x more than the random individual, because S3 is a solid enterprise choice, and will always have the enterprise advantage, by a crushing margin. AWS is itself hard to compete with, but of all the services you could compete with on AWS, S3 is probably the worst. So you're going up against the worst of the worst, here. I can't say it's impossible, but it's like an extra double hard market to compete in, in an already tough market.

Proven 7y ago

> This really looks like a solution in search of a problem. That's right. There's no shortage of (way more) efficient and cheaper public storage services that require a fraction of the management effort. But those who purchased filecoin need to hype it up and offload it to those who think they missed out on the next big thing.