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Like you can actually vote? Like there are more than two parties with the same take on social security? So you are telling me that the system in the US is like

Like you can actually vote? Like there are more than two parties with the same take on social security? So you are telling me that the system in the US is like how the majority of people want it or that people have no say in the system?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Few people think it's perfect, but most Americans do agree that capitalism and representative democracy are good ideas that are working okay.
- looping__lui 6y ago
  Yes, I understand. And THAT is the reason why it is as it is. Why is Amazon then always the scapegoat?
chadlavi 6y ago
oh I'm certainly not saying that the system in the US is good by any means, what I'm saying is that it currently is the way I describe it. People (normal people, anyway) generally have a lot less say in that system than you seem to think. I don't get to vote on whether or not a major employer offers better pay for physical labor. I don't get to vote on whether or not for-profit schools exist. I don't get to vote on whether or not employers will (consciously or not) discriminate against job applicants who look poor or don't speak eloquently as a result of low-quality education. Hell, I don't even, really, get to write to my congressperson and tell them they should propose a law that would achieve any of that, because I don't have the money and connections to shepherd that bill through congress (i.e., pay bribes). Voting for candidates who will work for change is important, but it's not magic, and it's also not something that people who care about this weren't already doing every time we get the chance.
- seneca 6y ago
  > I don't get to vote on whether or not a major employer offers better pay for physical labor. Found a company, and pay more for physical labor. Not only will that directly cause it, you will influence the market. Only buy products from companies that pay what you believe are fair wages, if you're unwilling to found a company yourself. > I don't get to vote on whether or not for-profit schools exist. No, but you can found a non-profit school, or donate to them (I do!). > I don't get to vote on whether or not employers will (consciously or not) discriminate against job applicants who look poor or don't speak eloquently as a result of low-quality education. Again, you can hire whoever you want (within legal confines) at your own company. You are not helpless. What you aren't able to do in the US is just force other people to do what you want. Put in the work, create something and show that the approach you believe in is viable, or even superior. Be the change you want to see.
enitihas 6y ago
The US did have many candidates with different takes on social security, just that people didn't vote for them. One of those candidates even raised more money than the winner. Now you can say people are brain washed. But people didn't vote for alternative takes on social security in US, or else they could have voted otherwise.
looping__lui 6y ago
But what do all the comments on my reply have to do with Amazon then? Yeah, I get it, HN doesn’t like them but you say yourself the problem is something else. So why the company bashing?
- lidHanteyk 6y ago
  Because, counterfactually, no Jeff Bezos means no Amazon means no abuse of Amazon employees. So, to some extent, Bezos and Amazon are responsible, even if they aren't wholly responsible.
  - looping__lui 6y ago
    As I mentioned in another comment: I think you get cause and effect wrong - and that is imho a big issue and makes the entire discussion really annoying. The destruction of the social safety net in the US allows companies to act differently in the US than in other countries. So: Amazon pays above minimum wage, gives more leave to its employees than legally required, has stricter safety standards than legally required (didn’t a president just ask in a press conference recently whether drinking bleach couldn’t cure Corona? Where was that again - rural South America?) - and still they are the evil ones. In Europe, any Amazon warehouse worker’s has full medical health coverage (including his family), his kids go to university for free, get the same schooling as the kids of a CEO, probably has 5-6 weeks vacation and if he quits his job - all of that will still hold. So per your logic, we should praise Amazon for all of that. But that would be equally illogical - because Amazon is not the root cause for all these benefits. No Jeff Bezos means: well, no shipments in times of dire need, no cloud compute, no 75+k jobs during the biggest “job recession” in American history. Also means no Blue Origin and no Washington Post. What I find interesting: You guys seem so paranoid and jealous about giving any benefit you have earned yourself so hard (e.g. health insurance) to anybody that appears to achieve less than you do that you collectively fight any improvement to the system. You DO NOT want all the benefits of a social safety net for everybody - hence nobody gets anything. Don’t blame this on Bezos, but blame it on yourself.
    - lidHanteyk 6y ago

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Few people think it's perfect, but most Americans do agree that capitalism and representative democracy are good ideas that are working okay.

looping__lui 6y ago
Yes, I understand. And THAT is the reason why it is as it is. Why is Amazon then always the scapegoat?

chadlavi 6y ago

oh I'm certainly not saying that the system in the US is good by any means, what I'm saying is that it currently is the way I describe it. People (normal people, anyway) generally have a lot less say in that system than you seem to think. I don't get to vote on whether or not a major employer offers better pay for physical labor. I don't get to vote on whether or not for-profit schools exist. I don't get to vote on whether or not employers will (consciously or not) discriminate against job applicants who look poor or don't speak eloquently as a result of low-quality education. Hell, I don't even, really, get to write to my congressperson and tell them they should propose a law that would achieve any of that, because I don't have the money and connections to shepherd that bill through congress (i.e., pay bribes). Voting for candidates who will work for change is important, but it's not magic, and it's also not something that people who care about this weren't already doing every time we get the chance.

seneca 6y ago
> I don't get to vote on whether or not a major employer offers better pay for physical labor. Found a company, and pay more for physical labor. Not only will that directly cause it, you will influence the market. Only buy products from companies that pay what you believe are fair wages, if you're unwilling to found a company yourself. > I don't get to vote on whether or not for-profit schools exist. No, but you can found a non-profit school, or donate to them (I do!). > I don't get to vote on whether or not employers will (consciously or not) discriminate against job applicants who look poor or don't speak eloquently as a result of low-quality education. Again, you can hire whoever you want (within legal confines) at your own company. You are not helpless. What you aren't able to do in the US is just force other people to do what you want. Put in the work, create something and show that the approach you believe in is viable, or even superior. Be the change you want to see.

enitihas 6y ago

The US did have many candidates with different takes on social security, just that people didn't vote for them. One of those candidates even raised more money than the winner. Now you can say people are brain washed. But people didn't vote for alternative takes on social security in US, or else they could have voted otherwise.

looping__lui 6y ago

But what do all the comments on my reply have to do with Amazon then? Yeah, I get it, HN doesn’t like them but you say yourself the problem is something else. So why the company bashing?

lidHanteyk 6y ago
Because, counterfactually, no Jeff Bezos means no Amazon means no abuse of Amazon employees. So, to some extent, Bezos and Amazon are responsible, even if they aren't wholly responsible.
- looping__lui 6y ago
  As I mentioned in another comment: I think you get cause and effect wrong - and that is imho a big issue and makes the entire discussion really annoying. The destruction of the social safety net in the US allows companies to act differently in the US than in other countries. So: Amazon pays above minimum wage, gives more leave to its employees than legally required, has stricter safety standards than legally required (didn’t a president just ask in a press conference recently whether drinking bleach couldn’t cure Corona? Where was that again - rural South America?) - and still they are the evil ones. In Europe, any Amazon warehouse worker’s has full medical health coverage (including his family), his kids go to university for free, get the same schooling as the kids of a CEO, probably has 5-6 weeks vacation and if he quits his job - all of that will still hold. So per your logic, we should praise Amazon for all of that. But that would be equally illogical - because Amazon is not the root cause for all these benefits. No Jeff Bezos means: well, no shipments in times of dire need, no cloud compute, no 75+k jobs during the biggest “job recession” in American history. Also means no Blue Origin and no Washington Post. What I find interesting: You guys seem so paranoid and jealous about giving any benefit you have earned yourself so hard (e.g. health insurance) to anybody that appears to achieve less than you do that you collectively fight any improvement to the system. You DO NOT want all the benefits of a social safety net for everybody - hence nobody gets anything. Don’t blame this on Bezos, but blame it on yourself.
  - lidHanteyk 6y ago