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I can't help thinking that this may have been the subject of the rambling, inarticulate speech recently given by POTUS? When I hear these crazy headlines, I th

I can't help thinking that this may have been the subject of the rambling, inarticulate speech recently given by POTUS? When I hear these crazy headlines, I think that he didn't come up with this stuff on his own, so did he hear this from a sane advisor or some kook on his staff? After he went to the mat for hydroxychloroquine, it's pretty natural for everyone to be skeptical, though.

rsynnott 7y ago
I’d question the sanity of any advisor pushing a dodgy old Soviet antibacterial technique for a virus. Also, this fails to explain the _disinfectant_.
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  I think the temptation is to assume that the president is at least of average intelligence. Unfortunately this leads to this strange apologist behaviour when he says something fricking stupid.
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    I’m not sure why anyone would assume that at this point.
    - rechristened 7y ago
      The fact that he got elected and can keep getting people to give him free air time.
  - dwiel 7y ago
    If we were ever lacking a clear counter-example of intelligence as a singular metric, we certainly aren't lacking any more.
    - dqpb 7y ago
      I’ve been saying for a long time that Trump isn’t stupid, he just has nefarious goals. But after seeing that rambling video of him hypothesizing about disinfectants to clean out the body, I’m convinced he’s actually an idiot.
      - dqpb 7y ago
        Now he’s saying he was being sarcastic. Bullshit.
  - wonderwonder 7y ago
    I don't think that Trump is stupid, I think he is completely handicapped by a massive case of narcissism rendering him incapable of seeing anyone else as his equal in any arena and taking any questioning as a personal insult. This is so complete in him that he thinks any idea that pops into his head is genius and expects everyone else to do the same as they are lessers. He also sees loyalty to him as the most important quality in any advisor. This leads to insane statements and total mismanagement of most things. This has also led to others recognizing this and understanding that they can personally profit from it by just going along with it. There are also true believers who follow him in much the same way cult leaders have always been able to convince people to do illogical things.
  - mensetmanusman 7y ago
    Just remember that a little more than half of America is below average, and you will be comforted.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  > Also, this fails to explain the _disinfectant_. Not only are there hundreds of doctors in the US who inject disinfectant into people to treat viruses already, there are medical textbooks about it and even an academy for certifying medical practitioners: https://aaot.us/ https://aaot.us/? (Technically they advocate taking blood from people, infusing it with disinfectant, and then injecting the infused blood back into people, but close enough.) I don't know to what extent it's safe or effective, but hundreds of thousands of people have done it without dying at this point and many of them credit it for having healed various problems, so that's something.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    The FDA seems pretty set where the alternative medicine practice of ozone therapy falls in terms of both safety and effectiveness as a medical therapy. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=801.415 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR...
    - pintxo 7y ago
      First sentence from that source: > Ozone is a toxic gas with no known useful medical application in specific, adjunctive, or preventive therapy. In order for ozone to be effective as a germicide, it must be present in a concentration far greater than that which can be safely tolerated by man and animals.
    - Alex3917 7y ago
      You want to go through a list of things that various medical associations have been pretty set on and see how well they've held up over time?
      - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
        That's not actually an argument, and is like saying "medicine was wrong before, therefore a bleach enema will cure cancer".
- adventured 7y ago
  During the same briefing, Trump immediately attempted to clarify that he wasn't suggesting injecting cleaning disinfectants into the human body. That didn't prevent the rabid anti-Trump media from making it a headline on every site, of course. Which then becomes: "Trump says inject Lysol!"
  - streb-lo 7y ago
    I think even more predictable is the apologist tour the day afterwards trying to convince us the American President is not, in fact, a moron.
  - chance_state 7y ago
    >rabid anti-Trump media 50,000+ dead Americans, but let's remember who the real victim is here.
  - rrss 7y ago
    Here's the briefing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQnfpfIa_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQnfpfIa_o. Can you please point out the timestamp when Trump attempted to clarify? The closest I found was at ~31:00, some reporter asks for confirmation that there's no scenario in which disinfectants would be injected into the body. Bryan declines to comment, Trump responds with "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't work," which doesn't really provide any clarity. And then at ~50:00 he asks Bryan to "talk to the medical doctors" to look at applying light and heat as a cure. Then he says "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I'm not a doctor, but I am a person with a very good you-know-what." Some reporter suggests that the President of the United States should not spout random stuff and say "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't", Trump responds with "I'm the president, and you're fake news."
    - billfor 7y ago
      The people that are downvoting aren't interested in the actual facts or having an objective discussion about what he actually "meant". They just don't like Trump. Pretty sad for a forum with so many intelligent people on it.
fullstop 7y ago
Maybe this as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_--_Annihilate%21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_--_Annihilate%21
threeseed 7y ago
Our Chief Medical Officer here in Australia actually had to tell people not to inject disinfectant based on Trump's speech. Truly extraordinary times we live in.
- klenwell 7y ago
  The makers of Lysol also had to issue an official statement: As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body (through injection, ingestion or any other route). https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/business/lysol-disinfectant-trump-coronavirus/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/business/lysol-disinfectant-t... I keep thinking of this recent Ted Chiang quote: If your goal is to dramatize the threat posed by an unknown virus, there’s no advantage in depicting the officials responding as incompetent, because that minimizes the threat; it leads the reader to conclude that the virus wouldn’t be dangerous if competent people were on the job. A pandemic story like that would be similar to what’s known as an “idiot plot,” a plot that would be resolved very quickly if your protagonist weren’t an idiot. What we’re living through is only partly a disaster novel; it’s also—and perhaps mostly—a grotesque political satire. https://electricliterature.com/ted-chiang-explains-the-disaster-novel-we-all-suddenly-live-in/ https://electricliterature.com/ted-chiang-explains-the-disas...
  - breischl 7y ago
    On the one hand it's incredibly sad that they have to make announcements like that. On the other hand, this reaalllly feels like evolution in action.
  - danans 7y ago
    > there’s no advantage in depicting the officials responding as incompetent, , because that minimizes the threat In this case it's not typical incompetence of officials, it's an official with huge influence derived from their office endangering people by recommending injection of disinfectants into their bodies. That itself a huge threat.
    - 7y ago
ceejayoz 7y ago
> I can't help thinking that this may have been the subject of the rambling, inarticulate speech recently given by POTUS? Given his mention of disinfectants at the same time, it's far more likely they just told him how they disinfect surfaces like doorknobs and countertops and he ran with it.
- eloff 7y ago
  What seems like a paradox to me is how he can be so smart at playing crowds, working the political system, etc. He beat a Clinton in a race for president - that's no mean feat. But then he does things like this that reveal he's actually a bit on the dumb side. I don't think there's any other way to square that.
  - Craighead 7y ago
    He's highly effective at riding the tiger, but, not anything further.
  - tossAfterUsing 7y ago
    that's the magic of his very stable genius
  - golemotron 7y ago
    >What seems like a paradox to me is how he can be so smart at playing crowds, working the political system, etc. He beat a Clinton in a race for president - that's no mean feat. But then he does things like this that reveal he's actually a bit on the dumb side. I don't think there's any other way to square that. It is easy to square; it's social class. It's very important to a rather large segment of the country that it feel intellectually superior. He provokes them into talking about how superior they are, and that shores up his base. One further dynamic.. people in the media and professional classes can be destroyed by using the wrong word or by speculating off-handedly. That is why they flip out when Trump does it. It's partially envy of his freedom.
  - dhosek 7y ago
    You underestimate the power of racism and sexism.
jvm_ 7y ago
The scientist speaking before him was describing testing scenarios. If you have light you get one result, and then you inject disinfectant, you get a different result. So the scientist was saying the words inject disinfectant - except he didn't mean needles but someone assumed he did.
- ficklepickle 7y ago
  That makes sense! I could tell he was confusing surface sterilization with in vivo treatment. But I couldn't figure out how he got there.
newacct583 7y ago
> After he went to the mat for hydroxychloroquine, it's pretty natural for everyone to be skeptical To be fair to the inarticulate speaker: evidence for the efficacy of chloroquines, sparse and vague though it may have been, was very much more convincing than this stuff. Chloroquines are existing drugs with a long history and a reasonably well understood mechanism of action. This thing is pure experimental medicine. It wasn't practical at the time, didn't survive as a treatment, and everyone involved in the original research is retired or dead. That doesn't make it wrong, but this is a long way from being ready even for a study.
wonderwonder 7y ago
Unfortunately its like my older family members who read stuff on facebook and think its true, not really understanding that anyone can write something, no validation is being performed. Then my older family member is promoted to president by less than half of the population but still goes to facebook to get advice and ideas. Note: I am typing this as I sit drinking my daily cup of Lysol. Invigorating and I don't have Covid-19. I have picked up an uncomfortable case of indigestion, but I'm sure it will pass.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  The president is getting his information form the CDC and other advisors. Pretending he's sourcing it from Facebook is pure fantasy.
  - dagmx 7y ago
    Noone said he’s getting it from Facebook. Just that they were noting the similarity. Trump has been shown several times however to disregard expert advice and tweet or act based on input from Fox News, so in that way, it’s not really any different. To act like he is only ever reporting information from experts is the real pure fantasy. He’s much more likely to be citing “opinion” peddlers instead.
  - wonderwonder 7y ago
    The president was suggesting and shilling hydroxychloroquine for weeks based on the advise of the CDC? The president went on TV last night and mused about and got his staff to commit to investigating drinking / injecting / huffing disinfectant and putting 'powerful' light into bodies based on the advice of the CDC? I really doubt that. Now you may be right that he gets his info from advisors but the quality of advice is only as good as the advisors. Considering he has removed a vast number of competent experienced people and replaced them with sycophants with no experience may reduce that quality. His daughter and son in law are special advisors. https://www.whitehouse.gov/people/ivanka-trump/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/people/ivanka-trump/ Also I did not say he gets his info from facebook, I said he is similar to people who do. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-jared-kushner-facebook-group-crowdsource-2020-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-jared-kushner-fa...
joshstrange 7y ago
> I can't help thinking that this may have been the subject of the rambling, inarticulate speech recently given by POTUS? No, this is another example of the media taking his ramblings and trying to clean it up and make sense of it. If that had been the ONLY idea he pushed in that press briefing then I might be more willing to believe that but he followed up with injecting disinfectants so I think it's pretty clear he was just spewing a stream of consciousness. > After he went to the mat for hydroxychloroquine, it's pretty natural for everyone to be skeptical, though. To be fair I think the jury is still out on hydroxychloroquine. Trump pushed it because he thought it might a miracle drug that would save the economy and his reelection. That's all true but it can also be true that hydroxychloroquine can work for some people (people without heart conditions and when combined with other drugs like zinc and/or azithromycin, we need more GOOD studies: random, double-blind, high number of people, drug administered early not as "last-ditch"). I hope this whole incident is going to shine a light on a number of "academics" like the ones involved in the unforgivable VA hydroxychloroquine "study". Of course we should also blame the press for treating it as fact but I digress.
breischl 7y ago
There was a study fairly recently showing that sunlight (UV) kills the virus. I suspect he just saw that, or maybe it was on Fox News, and he picked it up from there. Similarly, there were some preliminary studies that showed effectiveness of HCLQ, which he latched onto and ran with. https://www.yahoo.com/news/sunlight-destroys-coronavirus-very-quickly-new-government-tests-find-but-experts-say-pandemic-could-still-last-through-summer-200745675.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/sunlight-destroys-coronavirus-ver...
- phailhaus 7y ago
  No, if you watch the clip the speaker before him mentioned how long the virus survives under UV and disinfectants. He literally just took that and went "well maybe we can put them in the body?"
- lsllc 7y ago
  Shanghai is using UV light to "disinfect" buses: https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3075171/shanghai-introduces-ultraviolet-light-disinfect-public-buses https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3075171/shanghai-introduces...
chance_state 7y ago
You see this frequently on HN, where the president says something completely insane and lo and behold there's some obscure article on the front page supporting him.
- RealityVoid 7y ago
  I can not for the love of me understand why people are so apologetic for this asshole. It's pretty clear he's senile and mean and petty and has a fragile ego. He has similar thoughts and outbursts I would have had when I was 5 years old. It just can't wrap my head around this. It's not like these people go around and make up excuses for everybody who says something silly. I'm... At a loss what is going on.
  - brandon272 7y ago
    It's just a form of trolling and gaslighting. Trump never mentioned this treatment. Everyone who watched him speak of ultraviolet light and disinfectant yesterday knew what he was saying and suggesting. The stupidity of the words were readily apparent. Yet, here we are, being told that we're all morons because it's obvious that this treatment is what he was talking about. Even though he never mentioned this treatment, and there's no reason to think that he was talking about this treatment in particular. Edit: Trump is claiming today that the question was just "sarcasm"...
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    I suspect a form of buyer's remorse; people can be very defensive of a bad voting choice.
Tycho 7y ago
It's just people playing "get Trump." Nothing wrong with lateral thinking. UV and disinfecting agents kill the virus on surfaces - OK, is there some way we can use that to kill the virus inside the body? I bet chemotherapy sounded crazy the first time someone suggested it.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  If chemotherapy had been suggested by the president at the time going on TV and saying "it might be a good idea if people drank poison", _with no basis for that assumption_, then, well, yes, that would have been pretty crazy, and would have lead to a lot of unnecessary death. Also, of course, lobotomies probably sounded crazy the first time someone suggested them. And as it turns out, they were. For everything that sounds crazy and works, there are a lot of things that sound crazy and prove to be crazy.
  - Tycho 7y ago
    But he didn't say that. He had a scientist up to announce promising results, and he suggested some avenues for further research or invention. At no point did he turn to the camera and say "so you see folks, if you're worried about the coronavirus, just reach into your kitchen cupboard and pour yourself a nice glass of bleach." I don't know why you're pretending otherwise.
    - Cyph0n 7y ago
      It is not the president’s job to suggest avenues for further medical research on live TV, especially if the suggestions are stupid and life-threatening. We already have enough on our hands with the pandemic, so let’s try to avoid getting more people in the ER.
      - Tycho 7y ago
        Who said it’s not the president’s job to show scientific progress to the public and engender discussion of new ideas? I realise many people are very used to dry, carefully stage-managed government briefings written in ObamaScript, but being spontaneous and discursive has its advantages. Many medical interventions are dangerous by nature - doesn’t and shouldn’t stop people discussing new possibilities for investigation, which is what happened here.
danschumann 7y ago
Who did you hear it from first? Who got us talking about it? You can't say he doesn't stimulate discussion.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  The quality of those discussions is extremely poor. ...both his initiation, and the responses.
  - danschumann 7y ago
    Ha, yea, but what happens if/when one of these crazy solutions works, and he was the first to suggest it? I don't see Biden doing any press, much less 2 hours per day. KAG. Down vote me libs
    - Cyph0n 7y ago
      Keep throwing shit on the wall until something sticks. How presidential!
      - danschumann 7y ago
        Talk for 2 hours and sometimes something slips out. You act like for 2 hours he talks wild hypothesis. That's because you watch CNN, who covers the dumbest 30 seconds of his 2 hours talks, and acts like that's what it's like for 2 hours. SIGNAL != NOISE
        chance_state 7y ago
        Don't worry, the cleanup has begun: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/24/disinfectant-injection-coronavirus-trump/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/24/disinfectan... He's not a moron, he's just on a higher plane of comedy than the rest of us.
        7y ago
osrec 7y ago
I'm not sure if it's simply that he has never faced the consequences of his words/actions, or if he's just incredibly stupid and irresponsible, but he doesn't appear to think before he speaks. Almost as if he's using his "inside" voice on the outside - taking "thinking out loud" to a whole new level. It's very weird for a person in his position, and I'm surprised so many support him (to the point of fanaticism) over in the US. It's like their egos are too deeply invested for them to cut their losses now. Whatever his supporters might say, the guy's a bit of a joke to us here in the UK.
dpoochieni 7y ago
By know we do know hydroxychloroquine is pretty effective right? I mean all studies (and even before those with other coronaviruses) have been pretty positive save one from the virus' motherland.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  Er... no. While we're still awaiting large well-conducted studies, the well-conducted small studies have not been promising, to say the least.
  - twomoretime 7y ago
    The small studies were flawed too. We are witnessing incompetence across the board. The treatment in the "good" studies that, let's be real, most people are gunning for because they go against the president's tweet, they administered the drugs to critically ill patients. The original proposed mechanism of action is solid, came from a Dutch paper in reference to SARS, and ideally the treatment is administered sometime before the patient is already dying. Just look at what's going on on this website! Anything remotely supportive of Trump is automatically voted down. This is a board of learned professionals who have clout and their lack of objectivity is representative of academia and industry at large right now. Let's not pretend you could openly support Trump at almost any major institution right now. And this isn't about Trump. This is about getting over petty rage and not leaving treatments on the table to stick it to the man.
    - rsynnott 7y ago
      > not leaving treatments on the table There are large studies on this ongoing. If they show something, well, fine, that's good. Until then, no-one should be promoting a dangerous drug to members of the public.
      - twomoretime 7y ago
        Telling your populous, at a time when you are holding daily updates, there there is a promising drug or vaccine that scientists are researching, is an appropriate step towards maintaining some degree of hope. We cannot be liable for the 1/10e-6 percent of the population that takes this as a suggestion to self medicate with acquarium cleaner. People have gotten absolutely desperate to interpret everything he says or does in the absolutely worst way.
aritmo 7y ago
Highly unlikely. The advisors mentioned the new results that the COVID-19 virus on surfaces is neutralized by disinfectants and direct sunlight in a few minutes. He then tried to 'help' by suggesting to put light and disinfectants in the bloodstream. In the video you can see that he already discussed with Deborah Birx about these ideas, and instead of her shooting them down, she just told him that she would consider them. During the conference he was trying to bring back that conversation, putting her on the spot.

rsynnott 7y ago

I’d question the sanity of any advisor pushing a dodgy old Soviet antibacterial technique for a virus. Also, this fails to explain the _disinfectant_.

VBprogrammer 7y ago
I think the temptation is to assume that the president is at least of average intelligence. Unfortunately this leads to this strange apologist behaviour when he says something fricking stupid.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  I’m not sure why anyone would assume that at this point.
  - rechristened 7y ago
    The fact that he got elected and can keep getting people to give him free air time.
- dwiel 7y ago
  If we were ever lacking a clear counter-example of intelligence as a singular metric, we certainly aren't lacking any more.
  - dqpb 7y ago
    I’ve been saying for a long time that Trump isn’t stupid, he just has nefarious goals. But after seeing that rambling video of him hypothesizing about disinfectants to clean out the body, I’m convinced he’s actually an idiot.
    - dqpb 7y ago
      Now he’s saying he was being sarcastic. Bullshit.
- wonderwonder 7y ago
  I don't think that Trump is stupid, I think he is completely handicapped by a massive case of narcissism rendering him incapable of seeing anyone else as his equal in any arena and taking any questioning as a personal insult. This is so complete in him that he thinks any idea that pops into his head is genius and expects everyone else to do the same as they are lessers. He also sees loyalty to him as the most important quality in any advisor. This leads to insane statements and total mismanagement of most things. This has also led to others recognizing this and understanding that they can personally profit from it by just going along with it. There are also true believers who follow him in much the same way cult leaders have always been able to convince people to do illogical things.
- mensetmanusman 7y ago
  Just remember that a little more than half of America is below average, and you will be comforted.
Alex3917 7y ago
> Also, this fails to explain the _disinfectant_. Not only are there hundreds of doctors in the US who inject disinfectant into people to treat viruses already, there are medical textbooks about it and even an academy for certifying medical practitioners: https://aaot.us/ https://aaot.us/? (Technically they advocate taking blood from people, infusing it with disinfectant, and then injecting the infused blood back into people, but close enough.) I don't know to what extent it's safe or effective, but hundreds of thousands of people have done it without dying at this point and many of them credit it for having healed various problems, so that's something.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  The FDA seems pretty set where the alternative medicine practice of ozone therapy falls in terms of both safety and effectiveness as a medical therapy. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=801.415 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR...
  - pintxo 7y ago
    First sentence from that source: > Ozone is a toxic gas with no known useful medical application in specific, adjunctive, or preventive therapy. In order for ozone to be effective as a germicide, it must be present in a concentration far greater than that which can be safely tolerated by man and animals.
  - Alex3917 7y ago
    You want to go through a list of things that various medical associations have been pretty set on and see how well they've held up over time?
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      That's not actually an argument, and is like saying "medicine was wrong before, therefore a bleach enema will cure cancer".
adventured 7y ago
During the same briefing, Trump immediately attempted to clarify that he wasn't suggesting injecting cleaning disinfectants into the human body. That didn't prevent the rabid anti-Trump media from making it a headline on every site, of course. Which then becomes: "Trump says inject Lysol!"
- streb-lo 7y ago
  I think even more predictable is the apologist tour the day afterwards trying to convince us the American President is not, in fact, a moron.
- chance_state 7y ago
  >rabid anti-Trump media 50,000+ dead Americans, but let's remember who the real victim is here.
- rrss 7y ago
  Here's the briefing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQnfpfIa_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQnfpfIa_o. Can you please point out the timestamp when Trump attempted to clarify? The closest I found was at ~31:00, some reporter asks for confirmation that there's no scenario in which disinfectants would be injected into the body. Bryan declines to comment, Trump responds with "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't work," which doesn't really provide any clarity. And then at ~50:00 he asks Bryan to "talk to the medical doctors" to look at applying light and heat as a cure. Then he says "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I'm not a doctor, but I am a person with a very good you-know-what." Some reporter suggests that the President of the United States should not spout random stuff and say "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't", Trump responds with "I'm the president, and you're fake news."
  - billfor 7y ago
    The people that are downvoting aren't interested in the actual facts or having an objective discussion about what he actually "meant". They just don't like Trump. Pretty sad for a forum with so many intelligent people on it.

fullstop 7y ago

Maybe this as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_--_Annihilate%21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_--_Annihilate%21

threeseed 7y ago

Our Chief Medical Officer here in Australia actually had to tell people not to inject disinfectant based on Trump's speech. Truly extraordinary times we live in.

klenwell 7y ago
The makers of Lysol also had to issue an official statement: As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body (through injection, ingestion or any other route). https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/business/lysol-disinfectant-trump-coronavirus/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/business/lysol-disinfectant-t... I keep thinking of this recent Ted Chiang quote: If your goal is to dramatize the threat posed by an unknown virus, there’s no advantage in depicting the officials responding as incompetent, because that minimizes the threat; it leads the reader to conclude that the virus wouldn’t be dangerous if competent people were on the job. A pandemic story like that would be similar to what’s known as an “idiot plot,” a plot that would be resolved very quickly if your protagonist weren’t an idiot. What we’re living through is only partly a disaster novel; it’s also—and perhaps mostly—a grotesque political satire. https://electricliterature.com/ted-chiang-explains-the-disaster-novel-we-all-suddenly-live-in/ https://electricliterature.com/ted-chiang-explains-the-disas...
- breischl 7y ago
  On the one hand it's incredibly sad that they have to make announcements like that. On the other hand, this reaalllly feels like evolution in action.
- danans 7y ago
  > there’s no advantage in depicting the officials responding as incompetent, , because that minimizes the threat In this case it's not typical incompetence of officials, it's an official with huge influence derived from their office endangering people by recommending injection of disinfectants into their bodies. That itself a huge threat.
  - 7y ago

ceejayoz 7y ago

> I can't help thinking that this may have been the subject of the rambling, inarticulate speech recently given by POTUS? Given his mention of disinfectants at the same time, it's far more likely they just told him how they disinfect surfaces like doorknobs and countertops and he ran with it.

eloff 7y ago
What seems like a paradox to me is how he can be so smart at playing crowds, working the political system, etc. He beat a Clinton in a race for president - that's no mean feat. But then he does things like this that reveal he's actually a bit on the dumb side. I don't think there's any other way to square that.
- Craighead 7y ago
  He's highly effective at riding the tiger, but, not anything further.
- tossAfterUsing 7y ago
  that's the magic of his very stable genius
- golemotron 7y ago
  >What seems like a paradox to me is how he can be so smart at playing crowds, working the political system, etc. He beat a Clinton in a race for president - that's no mean feat. But then he does things like this that reveal he's actually a bit on the dumb side. I don't think there's any other way to square that. It is easy to square; it's social class. It's very important to a rather large segment of the country that it feel intellectually superior. He provokes them into talking about how superior they are, and that shores up his base. One further dynamic.. people in the media and professional classes can be destroyed by using the wrong word or by speculating off-handedly. That is why they flip out when Trump does it. It's partially envy of his freedom.
- dhosek 7y ago
  You underestimate the power of racism and sexism.

jvm_ 7y ago

The scientist speaking before him was describing testing scenarios. If you have light you get one result, and then you inject disinfectant, you get a different result. So the scientist was saying the words inject disinfectant - except he didn't mean needles but someone assumed he did.

ficklepickle 7y ago
That makes sense! I could tell he was confusing surface sterilization with in vivo treatment. But I couldn't figure out how he got there.

newacct583 7y ago

> After he went to the mat for hydroxychloroquine, it's pretty natural for everyone to be skeptical To be fair to the inarticulate speaker: evidence for the efficacy of chloroquines, sparse and vague though it may have been, was very much more convincing than this stuff. Chloroquines are existing drugs with a long history and a reasonably well understood mechanism of action. This thing is pure experimental medicine. It wasn't practical at the time, didn't survive as a treatment, and everyone involved in the original research is retired or dead. That doesn't make it wrong, but this is a long way from being ready even for a study.

wonderwonder 7y ago

Unfortunately its like my older family members who read stuff on facebook and think its true, not really understanding that anyone can write something, no validation is being performed. Then my older family member is promoted to president by less than half of the population but still goes to facebook to get advice and ideas. Note: I am typing this as I sit drinking my daily cup of Lysol. Invigorating and I don't have Covid-19. I have picked up an uncomfortable case of indigestion, but I'm sure it will pass.

LegitShady 7y ago
The president is getting his information form the CDC and other advisors. Pretending he's sourcing it from Facebook is pure fantasy.
- dagmx 7y ago
  Noone said he’s getting it from Facebook. Just that they were noting the similarity. Trump has been shown several times however to disregard expert advice and tweet or act based on input from Fox News, so in that way, it’s not really any different. To act like he is only ever reporting information from experts is the real pure fantasy. He’s much more likely to be citing “opinion” peddlers instead.
- wonderwonder 7y ago
  The president was suggesting and shilling hydroxychloroquine for weeks based on the advise of the CDC? The president went on TV last night and mused about and got his staff to commit to investigating drinking / injecting / huffing disinfectant and putting 'powerful' light into bodies based on the advice of the CDC? I really doubt that. Now you may be right that he gets his info from advisors but the quality of advice is only as good as the advisors. Considering he has removed a vast number of competent experienced people and replaced them with sycophants with no experience may reduce that quality. His daughter and son in law are special advisors. https://www.whitehouse.gov/people/ivanka-trump/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/people/ivanka-trump/ Also I did not say he gets his info from facebook, I said he is similar to people who do. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-jared-kushner-facebook-group-crowdsource-2020-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-jared-kushner-fa...

joshstrange 7y ago

> I can't help thinking that this may have been the subject of the rambling, inarticulate speech recently given by POTUS? No, this is another example of the media taking his ramblings and trying to clean it up and make sense of it. If that had been the ONLY idea he pushed in that press briefing then I might be more willing to believe that but he followed up with injecting disinfectants so I think it's pretty clear he was just spewing a stream of consciousness. > After he went to the mat for hydroxychloroquine, it's pretty natural for everyone to be skeptical, though. To be fair I think the jury is still out on hydroxychloroquine. Trump pushed it because he thought it might a miracle drug that would save the economy and his reelection. That's all true but it can also be true that hydroxychloroquine can work for some people (people without heart conditions and when combined with other drugs like zinc and/or azithromycin, we need more GOOD studies: random, double-blind, high number of people, drug administered early not as "last-ditch"). I hope this whole incident is going to shine a light on a number of "academics" like the ones involved in the unforgivable VA hydroxychloroquine "study". Of course we should also blame the press for treating it as fact but I digress.

breischl 7y ago

There was a study fairly recently showing that sunlight (UV) kills the virus. I suspect he just saw that, or maybe it was on Fox News, and he picked it up from there. Similarly, there were some preliminary studies that showed effectiveness of HCLQ, which he latched onto and ran with. https://www.yahoo.com/news/sunlight-destroys-coronavirus-very-quickly-new-government-tests-find-but-experts-say-pandemic-could-still-last-through-summer-200745675.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/sunlight-destroys-coronavirus-ver...

phailhaus 7y ago
No, if you watch the clip the speaker before him mentioned how long the virus survives under UV and disinfectants. He literally just took that and went "well maybe we can put them in the body?"
lsllc 7y ago
Shanghai is using UV light to "disinfect" buses: https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3075171/shanghai-introduces-ultraviolet-light-disinfect-public-buses https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3075171/shanghai-introduces...

chance_state 7y ago

You see this frequently on HN, where the president says something completely insane and lo and behold there's some obscure article on the front page supporting him.

RealityVoid 7y ago
I can not for the love of me understand why people are so apologetic for this asshole. It's pretty clear he's senile and mean and petty and has a fragile ego. He has similar thoughts and outbursts I would have had when I was 5 years old. It just can't wrap my head around this. It's not like these people go around and make up excuses for everybody who says something silly. I'm... At a loss what is going on.
- brandon272 7y ago
  It's just a form of trolling and gaslighting. Trump never mentioned this treatment. Everyone who watched him speak of ultraviolet light and disinfectant yesterday knew what he was saying and suggesting. The stupidity of the words were readily apparent. Yet, here we are, being told that we're all morons because it's obvious that this treatment is what he was talking about. Even though he never mentioned this treatment, and there's no reason to think that he was talking about this treatment in particular. Edit: Trump is claiming today that the question was just "sarcasm"...
- rsynnott 7y ago
  I suspect a form of buyer's remorse; people can be very defensive of a bad voting choice.

Tycho 7y ago

It's just people playing "get Trump." Nothing wrong with lateral thinking. UV and disinfecting agents kill the virus on surfaces - OK, is there some way we can use that to kill the virus inside the body? I bet chemotherapy sounded crazy the first time someone suggested it.

rsynnott 7y ago
If chemotherapy had been suggested by the president at the time going on TV and saying "it might be a good idea if people drank poison", _with no basis for that assumption_, then, well, yes, that would have been pretty crazy, and would have lead to a lot of unnecessary death. Also, of course, lobotomies probably sounded crazy the first time someone suggested them. And as it turns out, they were. For everything that sounds crazy and works, there are a lot of things that sound crazy and prove to be crazy.
- Tycho 7y ago
  But he didn't say that. He had a scientist up to announce promising results, and he suggested some avenues for further research or invention. At no point did he turn to the camera and say "so you see folks, if you're worried about the coronavirus, just reach into your kitchen cupboard and pour yourself a nice glass of bleach." I don't know why you're pretending otherwise.
  - Cyph0n 7y ago
    It is not the president’s job to suggest avenues for further medical research on live TV, especially if the suggestions are stupid and life-threatening. We already have enough on our hands with the pandemic, so let’s try to avoid getting more people in the ER.
    - Tycho 7y ago
      Who said it’s not the president’s job to show scientific progress to the public and engender discussion of new ideas? I realise many people are very used to dry, carefully stage-managed government briefings written in ObamaScript, but being spontaneous and discursive has its advantages. Many medical interventions are dangerous by nature - doesn’t and shouldn’t stop people discussing new possibilities for investigation, which is what happened here.

danschumann 7y ago

Who did you hear it from first? Who got us talking about it? You can't say he doesn't stimulate discussion.

koheripbal 7y ago
The quality of those discussions is extremely poor. ...both his initiation, and the responses.
- danschumann 7y ago
  Ha, yea, but what happens if/when one of these crazy solutions works, and he was the first to suggest it? I don't see Biden doing any press, much less 2 hours per day. KAG. Down vote me libs
  - Cyph0n 7y ago
    Keep throwing shit on the wall until something sticks. How presidential!
    - danschumann 7y ago
      Talk for 2 hours and sometimes something slips out. You act like for 2 hours he talks wild hypothesis. That's because you watch CNN, who covers the dumbest 30 seconds of his 2 hours talks, and acts like that's what it's like for 2 hours. SIGNAL != NOISE
      - chance_state 7y ago
        Don't worry, the cleanup has begun: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/24/disinfectant-injection-coronavirus-trump/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/24/disinfectan... He's not a moron, he's just on a higher plane of comedy than the rest of us.
        7y ago

osrec 7y ago

I'm not sure if it's simply that he has never faced the consequences of his words/actions, or if he's just incredibly stupid and irresponsible, but he doesn't appear to think before he speaks. Almost as if he's using his "inside" voice on the outside - taking "thinking out loud" to a whole new level. It's very weird for a person in his position, and I'm surprised so many support him (to the point of fanaticism) over in the US. It's like their egos are too deeply invested for them to cut their losses now. Whatever his supporters might say, the guy's a bit of a joke to us here in the UK.

dpoochieni 7y ago

By know we do know hydroxychloroquine is pretty effective right? I mean all studies (and even before those with other coronaviruses) have been pretty positive save one from the virus' motherland.

rsynnott 7y ago
Er... no. While we're still awaiting large well-conducted studies, the well-conducted small studies have not been promising, to say the least.
- twomoretime 7y ago
  The small studies were flawed too. We are witnessing incompetence across the board. The treatment in the "good" studies that, let's be real, most people are gunning for because they go against the president's tweet, they administered the drugs to critically ill patients. The original proposed mechanism of action is solid, came from a Dutch paper in reference to SARS, and ideally the treatment is administered sometime before the patient is already dying. Just look at what's going on on this website! Anything remotely supportive of Trump is automatically voted down. This is a board of learned professionals who have clout and their lack of objectivity is representative of academia and industry at large right now. Let's not pretend you could openly support Trump at almost any major institution right now. And this isn't about Trump. This is about getting over petty rage and not leaving treatments on the table to stick it to the man.
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    > not leaving treatments on the table There are large studies on this ongoing. If they show something, well, fine, that's good. Until then, no-one should be promoting a dangerous drug to members of the public.
    - twomoretime 7y ago
      Telling your populous, at a time when you are holding daily updates, there there is a promising drug or vaccine that scientists are researching, is an appropriate step towards maintaining some degree of hope. We cannot be liable for the 1/10e-6 percent of the population that takes this as a suggestion to self medicate with acquarium cleaner. People have gotten absolutely desperate to interpret everything he says or does in the absolutely worst way.

aritmo 7y ago

Highly unlikely. The advisors mentioned the new results that the COVID-19 virus on surfaces is neutralized by disinfectants and direct sunlight in a few minutes. He then tried to 'help' by suggesting to put light and disinfectants in the bloodstream. In the video you can see that he already discussed with Deborah Birx about these ideas, and instead of her shooting them down, she just told him that she would consider them. During the conference he was trying to bring back that conversation, putting her on the spot.