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I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get disc

I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like: - You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID - Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that magical person who can strap a booster rocket to your career/company - You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks, or you got dealt a bad hand in the form of things like dependents or health issues and simply can't afford to take risks - Despite all your work, you get blindsided by things completely out of your control. Ex. a big company straight up rips off your product/service/side gig or an executive at your company guts your project/department - You don't have the magic paper credentials to get you through the doors at places you want to go because you didn't know you needed them earlier in life when they were practical to get These are the kinds of things I want to see tackled with real-world career advice since I think they apply to a lot of people. For every lucky executive or entrepreneur there are many who were unlucky.

idclip 7y ago
I second this.
shortlived 7y ago
>> You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks, or you got dealt a bad hand in the form of things like dependents or health issues and simply can't afford to take risks +1
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vsareto 7y ago
The bad luck is thinking a company is having a good luck and then realize it isn't. Running into people able to manipulate you is also bad luck. Companies are selling you during the interview. Sometimes good businesses hire bad people who are good at interviews (maliciously or not), sometimes bad businesses who are good at interviews hire good people (maliciously or not).
syshum 7y ago
>>> You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks I did not takes risks per say, but I was lucky to have this in a limited sense during a period of bad luck (aka the recession of 2007) that really helped me pivot to a better place where today during the COVID Crisis I am providing that support to some of my family....
bryanrasmussen 7y ago
>- You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID I feel bad for the higher class pizza restaurant that opened down the street from our house at the end of January after a long time of renovating the building. Even though their pizza isn't really as good as the fancy pizza place at the mall (it's a mall in a rich area) down by the nearby harbor, which will upset me if it goes out of business because I could take my kids there or visitors and they were made happy by the quality of the pizza. But this place down the street from me, that is textbook bad luck.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  I have a similar story. There was a fancy pizza place about to open next to a park few minutes from my home. They were intensively renovating a pretty building. I was really waiting to see them open - I like pizzas, and this is a small town, so we don't have much of choice in them. COVID-19 lockdowns came just as they were readying to open. They had a market, they had a great location - but they also had really bad luck.
- bad_luck_tw 7y ago
  Something similar happened to me during this outbreak. Got my CS degree from a no-name university in a third world country a few years back, got a job in one of those software sweatshops getting paid peanuts, moved to a new one an year later where I worked my ass off to learn things and generally be a good developer, but here too I was paid a pittance, mostly due to my education and previous job. I hated working here by the end and wanted to leave. Somehow I got an interview from a company in [COUNTRY] who were willing to sponsor my visa along with good pay. I studied hard for it (coming home from work at 10pm, preparing for interview until the late wee hours of the night) and cleared the interviews. Finally something good had happened to me, but just before I was scheduled to move for the new job, this outbreak just fucked everything over. The company still hasn't rescinded the offer, but I don't really have any high hopes, everyday I wake up in the morning expecting a rejection mail from them in my mailbox. Whats worse is that I had left my previous job since the joining of the new one was so close before all this happened, so here I am sitting jobless leeching on my family till god know when. Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to get this out. Edit: Any reason why this comment is dead?
steve76 7y ago
I found this helpful when I'm in a rut: Recommit to doing everything right, with a focus on the little things. Not just work or life. Daily routine and small chores. If you loose focus, acknowledge it and move on. Focus on what's most important. Don't do anything else until what's most important is done. This helps stop overworking, scrubbing every bit of the kitchen when you should be getting clients or spending time with family. Once your confidence builds up, take a real look at the top businesses. Rich and famous? Or just the public face of a lot of other people's hard work. That's good! You have to be happy for other people's success. It's a luxury. A really good credit card makes up a lot of business today. One good client pays the bills. Everything else likely gets a no. Getting a look even if it ends in a no is quite an accomplishment. It's a fight at the top. A bad one. Some people want to do horrible things. Our side convinces people to pursue peace and knowledge. Sometimes you're just not ready. There's someone here talking about a 6 month gap in their resume. The job interview is not a court of law. Just say: "I had my own clients." > "oh yeah? How that go?" "Good! I made more money with them." > "Huh. So why you quit?" "I sold it. I sold the business." Don't sell yourself short. Don't cheerlead either. Hindsight always makes you feel bad. Decide, and stick to the script no matter what. Admitting to mistakes and relating to people are for the ones at the top of the food chain. They might as well be in a different universe. Also, there's the killer cold outbreak. If you're willing to work, I think they'll take you. A lot of people well off are not going to risk it. They'll go back home and take care of their family.
LarryDarrell 7y ago
I suspect it's because there isn't much advice to give. My answer, having checked a few of your boxes... Your lifetime wages are going to be lower than many of your peers. This is unlikely to change. Adjust your worldview accordingly. Don't assume any debt that relies on increasing future earnings to be comfortable. By all means, keep trying, but stay level headed. Success for most is not always right around the corner. Prior to SV eating the world, the only people that said that we all should be entrepreneurs really just wanted you in their Amway downline. Society doesn't like to show the magnitude failures out there, or worse, the getting-by'ers. There are a lot of self-conscious IT people in the midwest making $70k/year feeling like failures, when they are the winners of Kokomo, IN. Read some philosophy. Buy a reliable used car. Look inward for contentment. Try therapy if your shitty childhood and shitty parents made inward a hard place to look.
- chosenbreed37 7y ago
  > Read some philosophy. Buy a reliable used car. Look inward for contentment. Try therapy if your shitty childhood and shitty parents made inward a hard place to look. I'd recommend the following: 1. Meditations - Marcus Aurelius 2. 12 Rules for Life - Jordan B Peterson 3. Letters from a self made merchant - John Graham
  - hckr_news 7y ago
    After my working life had induced anxiety, panic attacks, and a host of other issues which really started to rear their ugly head I’ve become a much more religious person. On top of the professional help I’ve sought out for these issues, it has also helped a lot in my case when you internalize deep that work/money/material success really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme and there’s a greater goal to work towards.
    - whitebread 7y ago
      What is this greater goal you speak of?
      - 7y ago
bob33212 7y ago
To paraphrase you are asking what should people who are not achieving their goals do? I have read that the meaning of life is love and freedom and doing what you enjoy. What that means is different for everyone, but you have to ask yourself what that means to you. If that means have millions of dollars in just a few years, great. Read "think and grow rich" to see who you need to become. Otherwise don't waste you time following what others think success looks like.
quesera 7y ago
This is not bad luck. This is the normal state of life. It may be depressing (non-clinical), it might be disappointing, it might be discouraging, but it is 100% bog-standard ordinary. The feeling that you are suffering more than other people is the true harm caused. Your points: * Graduated at the wrong time: How many thousands of people graduated between 2008 and 2010? That is by definition ordinary. * Never met that magical person to makes your life magical: You said it yourself. Do you think most people meet magical people? * Resilient financial safety net: You've read the statistics, right? Most people don't have a month's income saved for difficult times. * Mental safety net/health issues: OK, there's some randomness here. But many people struggle with some form of this. * Having dependents: Well, blended choice and randomness, to some extent. But controllable usually, if you mean offspring. Adult dependents (parents) are harder, but far less common. * Large company rips off/Some exec derails your project: Normal and ordinary. This is how things work. Disappointing, but don't let it be discouraging. That part is your choice. I think you're conflating "lack of unusual good luck" with "bad luck". They are not the same. Don't imagine that the lucky individuals for whom the stars aligned are in any way normal. They just get all the press.
- CM30 7y ago
  Yeah, I think it's definitely worth remembering that the people and organisations making millions/billions of dollars and 'changing the world' are in the news because it's rare. Most musicians don't reach number 1, most film stars and YouTubers don't become millionaires, most startups don't become the next Facebook and most games on Steam or app stores just get buried. A combination of press coverage and social media has basically convinced an increasingly large percentage of the population than the outliers are the norm.
Arete314159 7y ago
I can speak to one of your points! I got dealt a bad hand in terms of health issues. However, a few years before I developed my health issues, I happened to have a long talk with a guy who had advanced MS. He told me that after his diagnosis, he tried to sock away as much money as possible and go for higher-paying jobs, as he knew that one day he'd become fully disabled and have to live on disability. Also, disability is pegged to your latest or average salary, so that's important to consider! (SS is an average, LTD is your most recent) During my 10 years of illness leading up to my eventual disability, I tried (with varying success) to do the following things: - Looked for jobs with slightly under full-time work loads to allow me time to rest (found only one for 2 years, but the extra rest helped me slow down disease progression a lot) - Looked for jobs with full benefit packages, including Short Term / Long Term Disability. If the job didn't offer it I signed up on my own - Maxed out HSA every year - Reduced my fixed costs as much as possible to prepare for living on a fixed income; moved to a LCOL area - Moved to a climate that was better for my health - Didn't have kids because I knew I wouldn't be healthy enough to bear them / raise them :-( - Researched how long term disability / social security disability worked (this site is really good: https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/social-security-disability/ https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/social-security-disability/ ) - Tried to do excellent work so my employers would still like me even with all my sick days
- deleted 7y ago
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- edraferi 7y ago
  Very cool! Congratulations on your exceptionally clear-eyed approach to a major life challenge! I’m sure this sounds sarcastic, but I’m genuinely impressed. It takes a lot of mental discipline to examine long term trends, make a correct projection, identify an appropriate course of action and then implement it even when its disruptive to your personal life. I hope it worked well for you, and that you are living your best life despite your health challenges.
  - Arete314159 7y ago
    Thanks! Yes, it is especially challenging because my health problems are in the unfortunate category: extremely disabling + poorly understood. So until I found specialists I got a lot of "Well everyone gets 'tired' sometimes" gaslighting from medical professionals. In other words I had to prepare for total disability being in my future, while also being told that nothing was wrong with me in my present by some doctors (not all, fortunately). So psychologically the greatest part of the challenge was to prepare for an extreme event (disability) while being told that nothing was wrong. I just had to listen to my body and hear when it told me I wasn't going to be able to work full time until retirement age, and then plan accordingly. So far, mostly due to the grace of God, I have turned out all right, thank you for your kind words. Getting approved for disability was brutal but I did eventually get approved. Side note: Unfortunately / fortunately, dealing with medical gaslighting for all these years helped my BS detector spot the issues in the "just the flu" narrative this year way ahead of the curve, and prepare appropriately. Sadly.
designium 7y ago
Most opinions and suggestions are based on the "standard path of success". If we use beauty contest as an analogy of success, only one will be the winner and all losers. In case of North American perspective, success looks like this: - Have good academic credentials - Have good big corporation names on your resume - Have good connections - Have nice car - Have nice house - Have kids, partner, etc. - Travel a lot when retired If we based our life against that standard, then it is going to be easier to be depressed once a person's life deviates from it. The other extreme, suggested by some others here, is to accept and be content about "c'est la vie" concept - life will suck and get over it, and its variations. I think that is wrong because it reinforces the idea there is only one way to succeed and have a good life. My suggestion is simpler: - Cover your base: do you have a place to live? do you feel safe where you live? do you have good quality food that you like to eat? do you have a group of friends to hangout and rely on? do you have an income source that is relatively stable? - Then you can focus on whatever you want to do; free yourself from rigid standards and paths. You can even pursue the stereotypical success lifestyle knowing that even if you fail, you can recover fast and try again.
- mgolawala 7y ago
  Well said. I was reading the responses, and seeing the implicit group consensus on what "success" looks like. The thing though is, your entire life outcome is based on luck. There is nothing you can really do to compensate for that, besides getting back up, brushing the dust of your knees, counting your blessings and keep going. List of things that are luck: 1) Where you were born in the wrong place at the wrong time. (think Afghanistan, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.) 2) Being born the wrong gender in the majority of the world by population (ie female). 3) Being born with the wrong sexual orientation in a huge chunk of the world. 4) Being born with a health condition (physical or mental), or with a learning disability. Even a mild one like ADHD or dyslexia. 5) Being born to the wrong set of parents. ie. belonging to the wrong community/religion/race... in the majority of the world. Honestly, even your mental capacity and grit are to a large extent (if not completely) luck. If developed via nurture, you didn't pick how you were nurtured. If nature, you didn't pick the genetic combination you were born with. So really, what is left? What percentage of your 'success' can you actually take credit for?
techpop10 7y ago
The one big thing I see missing here is the ability to increase your luck by networking and personal branding. You absolutely have to build your personal network. More exposure, more potential opportunity. Plain and simple - no matter what field you are in.
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  This is misinformation for people who are trying.
  - techpop10 7y ago
    huh?
    - jlokier 7y ago
      I speculate that the GP means: For people who are already networking as much as they can, working hard on their personal brand, etc. and still finding it doesn't seem to be working out for them (probably most people), you're telling them to do what they are already doing and that it will make them more successful. That's isn't useful. It's non-actionable advice, and empirically wrong in their experience. For people in that situation, your advice is pointing them in the wrong direction, and that's what I read into "misinformation" in the GP comment.
specialist 7y ago
- Mentorship, and how to find it Reflecting on my career of failure, unfulfilled potential, compared to the biographies of "successful" people, what they all seem to have which I lacked was a mentor. That person who said "You can do this. I believe in you. Let's talk it thru." To counterbalance all the people who actively or passively tear you down.
- Viliam1234 7y ago
  Finding the right people is a very important part of luck. At different stages of my life, I often had a person who made more difference than all other people combined. (And, as far as I know, I was this person for someone else once. So, globally, I am still in debt. Should do something about it.)
mcguire 7y ago
- You have a habit of picking interesting work over jobs that will "strap a booster rocket to your career". - You do everything right and, like most people, it still doesn't work.
ChuckMcM 7y ago
For people with bad luck or from people with bad luck? It is often inspiring to hear from folks who haven't been on the success rocket doing just fine and having a great life. The subtext here though is always "scoring" your success. There is the zen koan about one mans bad luck is another mans opportunity. But it really seems that the message is more "don't measure your own success unrealistically or you will always see yourself as having 'bad luck' when, in fact, you have a great life."
RookyNumbas 7y ago
When I think of the very successful people I know, all have gone through life events that would absolutely flatten most people. The loss of a child, a partner committing suicide, 6 businesses failing, 2 weeks in an induced comma. And yet a stranger looks at their accomplishments and thinks that they just didn't have bad luck.
- wondringaloud 7y ago
  This is absolutely true. I've noticed most "unsuccessful" people go around with a view of "successful" people that they got lucky, never had to endure hardship, had something handed to them, and so on. It's a defeatist, whiny attitude. I've put "un/successful" in quotes because I'm referring to the common interpretation of success/failure being purely financial. There are many other ways to lead an "unsuccessful" but fulfilling life, and I'd argue the place to start is to accept the hand you've been dealt. And to work with it rather than rail against it.
antisthenes 7y ago
Well, I definitely hit at least 3 of these things. #1 (good luck landing a decent job in 2009) #2 (turns out no one cares about you when you're unemployed) #5 (not Ivy League and mediocre GPA) Safety net was decent, so I was able to at least look for a job for some time. #4 doesn't really apply.
xivzgrev 7y ago
I've found that success in life is correlated with how closely you hit on actual "truths" in the world. For example, you join company X on a rocket ship. Your equity value skyrockets - those assets were actually undervalued relative to what someone would pay for them later. One of the hardest things in life is that we don't actually know the "truth", no one does. But what we can do is learn to spot ways we tell ourselves convenient lies - this is why Buffet + Munger did SO much work on studying human biases. If we had a perfect ability to spot every falsehood, we would be left with the bare truth. Given it's an imperfect system, "bad luck" can be simplified to "you keep missing the truth". And it's often not our fault - how the hell could anyone have known about COVID-19, and impact on their company, far enough in advance to actually move to safer waters prior? But it's worth examining why you made the decision to do X - were there any truths you missed, or lies you told yourself? Through that process, you can get better at spotting falsehoods or clarifying your values, so that even if you don't ever land on a rocket ship, you find a workplace you are happy at. For example, one of my early jobs was at a turd of a company. I knew BEFORE that it wasn't a great opportunity. But I was desperate to leave my current situation so I took it. Within a few weeks, I KNEW it was still a turd. But I didn't want to pay the relocation bonus back if I left so soon. So I stuck it out, ended up being there for a few years, and it mostly was wasted time. So now I turn down jobs where I feel like that going in. I need to feel great about the company's situation. But even that's not foolproof. I had another company where the company was doing GREAT. Fucking rocketship. Then literally within a few months of me joining, it went down the tubes and barely survived. So I also learned to be more wary of quickly growing, younger companies as well. Now I'm at a steadily growing larger company, that's managed well, and I love it. One last piece of advance - google "It works". It's a little book about writing a list of what you want and constantly looking at it. I did it during my last job search and literally got an (almost) dream job. Give it a try.
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  can you link directly to the book? thanks.
  - tome 7y ago
    Perhaps it's this https://www.amazon.com/Works-Famous-Little-Makes-Dreams-ebook/dp/B005X7F49C https://www.amazon.com/Works-Famous-Little-Makes-Dreams-eboo... It Works: The Famous Little Red Book That Makes Your Dreams Come True by RHJ
sifar 7y ago
Read Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius. There are some things that are in your control, while others that are not. Concentrate on the former. How can you improve your skills, learn new ones. Lower your expenses, stay healthy, avoid debt. It might take longer, because of all the dead ends you have encountered, but eventually you'll get there. But more importantly, don't let those things make you bitter.
RedBeetDeadpool 7y ago
Another huge aspect of "bad luck" is just meeting unusual numbers of bad people. By that I mean people who have an intention to harm you in some way or another instead just being the typical look out for oneself or even the more empathetic caring kind of person. You dont really choose the people you run into but there are absolutely skills you can learn in order to deal with them in healthy ways. A significant portion part of someone's career is based on politics and surprisingly little on skill.
starpilot 7y ago
There was an article about "luck" a few years ago and how researchers really found "luck" was somewhat in our control. Graduating in a recession isn't, but being "blindsided" is - luck had a strong component of being attentive and aware to the world around them. This derived from a calm wellbeing. I used to know someone who always lamented her "bad luck." Stuff like car accidents, or getting physically injured. She was also the most profoundly depressed and anxious person I had ever met, like within minutes you could tell she was disturbed. You could tell her bad "luck" was her mode of being constant distracted, but there wasn't really any advice you could give other than "work on your mental state," which she already knew. Her original bad luck over which she had no control was an unhappy upbringing, which is truly unfortunate, but that's not the last word on life.
DrNuke 7y ago
Not taking it personal helps, though... we cast our net daily and see what emerges?
pmiller2 7y ago
Depending on the interpretation, I've had between 3 and 5 out of these 5 things happen to me. I could have used the advice you're asking for about 10-15 years ago.
friendlybus 7y ago
Some things are outside your control, luck by definition is outside your control. - Your business sector will come back post COVID. - You can’t control other people - Control who is dependent on you, and fix your health best you can. - You can mitigate macro level risks. These techniques come at a cost. - You can get magic paper at the wrong age, but it costs. Or find other ways in. Frankly this discussion about luck is incredibly weak. You didn’t get everything you wanted, some things you can control and others you can’t. Appealing to luck might encourage some people to plaster over your mistakes and inability to eat loss with money and submission. There is no advice to give because you have framed the conversation around what your heart wants and thrown any rational decision making possible into submission to luck. You aren’t a victim of luck, it is by definition something nobody ever escapes and is a subset of randomness. An easy out for the unhappy. You are still ultimately responsible for your life, even the bits you can’t control. You make your own luck.
dennis_jeeves 7y ago
> - You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks, or you got dealt a bad hand in the form of things like dependents or health issues and simply can't afford to take risks The 'friends' part is something that I think can be potentially fixed. 'Friends' who can truly support you AND who are worthy of being supported in times of need are rare. But I think if one searches hard enough and find reasonable people to from an alliance with (without necessarily being friends) this problem can reduced. But it is needle in a hay stack endeavor. Most people in my observation are not worthy of receiving help ( for example they do not save enough money when they earn, so cannot be trusted to have the financial disciple to pay back) or conversely they are not in a position to help ( to cite the same example because they have not been saving enough money, they don't have enough money to lend to you).
bythckr 7y ago
> you graduated in 2008-2010/now Any advice for that?
scottlocklin 7y ago
Go read Baltasar Gracian's art of worldly wisdom. https://sacred-texts.com/eso/aww/index.htm https://sacred-texts.com/eso/aww/index.htm xxi The Art of being Lucky. There are rules of luck: it is not all chance with the wise: it can be assisted by care. Some content themselves with placing them-selves confidently at the gate of Fortune, waiting till she opens it. Others do better, and press forward and profit by their clever boldness, reaching the goddess and winning her favour on the wings of their virtue and valour. But on a true philosophy there is no other umpire than virtue and insight; for there is no luck or ill-luck except wisdom and the reverse. xxxi Select the Lucky and avoid the Unlucky. Ill-luck is generally the penalty of folly, and there is no disease so contagious to those who share in it. Never open the door to a lesser evil, for other and greater ones invariably slink in after it. The greatest skill at cards is to know when to discard; the smallest of current trumps is worth more than the ace of trumps of the last game. When in doubt, follow the suit of the wise and prudent; sooner or later they will win the odd trick. xxxvi In Acting or Refraining, weigh your Luck. More depends on that than on noticing your temperament. If he is a fool who at forty applies to Hippocrates for health, still more is he one who then first applies to Seneca for wisdom. It is a great piece of skill to know how to guide your luck even while waiting for it. For something is to be done with it by waiting so as to use it at the proper moment, since it has periods and offers opportunities, though one cannot calculate its path, its steps are so irregular. When you find Fortune favourable, stride boldly forward, for she favours the bold and, being a woman, the young. But if you have bad luck, keep retired so as not to redouble the influence of your unlucky star.
bagacrap 7y ago
I graduated in 08 and that was a GREAT time to enter the work force and start earning equity at a very low strike price right before a decade of amazing economic growth.
banannaise 7y ago
As someone who got hit with several of those: the best advice is "Find good ways to deal with your frustration and start adjusting your expectations downward. Start by getting a therapist." Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to recover your losses besides "get lucky in the future". Your career advice is the same as everyone else's, just with worse expected outcomes.

idclip 7y ago

I second this.

shortlived 7y ago

>> You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks, or you got dealt a bad hand in the form of things like dependents or health issues and simply can't afford to take risks +1

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

vsareto 7y ago

The bad luck is thinking a company is having a good luck and then realize it isn't. Running into people able to manipulate you is also bad luck. Companies are selling you during the interview. Sometimes good businesses hire bad people who are good at interviews (maliciously or not), sometimes bad businesses who are good at interviews hire good people (maliciously or not).

syshum 7y ago

>>> You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks I did not takes risks per say, but I was lucky to have this in a limited sense during a period of bad luck (aka the recession of 2007) that really helped me pivot to a better place where today during the COVID Crisis I am providing that support to some of my family....

bryanrasmussen 7y ago

>- You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID I feel bad for the higher class pizza restaurant that opened down the street from our house at the end of January after a long time of renovating the building. Even though their pizza isn't really as good as the fancy pizza place at the mall (it's a mall in a rich area) down by the nearby harbor, which will upset me if it goes out of business because I could take my kids there or visitors and they were made happy by the quality of the pizza. But this place down the street from me, that is textbook bad luck.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
I have a similar story. There was a fancy pizza place about to open next to a park few minutes from my home. They were intensively renovating a pretty building. I was really waiting to see them open - I like pizzas, and this is a small town, so we don't have much of choice in them. COVID-19 lockdowns came just as they were readying to open. They had a market, they had a great location - but they also had really bad luck.
bad_luck_tw 7y ago
Something similar happened to me during this outbreak. Got my CS degree from a no-name university in a third world country a few years back, got a job in one of those software sweatshops getting paid peanuts, moved to a new one an year later where I worked my ass off to learn things and generally be a good developer, but here too I was paid a pittance, mostly due to my education and previous job. I hated working here by the end and wanted to leave. Somehow I got an interview from a company in [COUNTRY] who were willing to sponsor my visa along with good pay. I studied hard for it (coming home from work at 10pm, preparing for interview until the late wee hours of the night) and cleared the interviews. Finally something good had happened to me, but just before I was scheduled to move for the new job, this outbreak just fucked everything over. The company still hasn't rescinded the offer, but I don't really have any high hopes, everyday I wake up in the morning expecting a rejection mail from them in my mailbox. Whats worse is that I had left my previous job since the joining of the new one was so close before all this happened, so here I am sitting jobless leeching on my family till god know when. Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to get this out. Edit: Any reason why this comment is dead?

steve76 7y ago

I found this helpful when I'm in a rut: Recommit to doing everything right, with a focus on the little things. Not just work or life. Daily routine and small chores. If you loose focus, acknowledge it and move on. Focus on what's most important. Don't do anything else until what's most important is done. This helps stop overworking, scrubbing every bit of the kitchen when you should be getting clients or spending time with family. Once your confidence builds up, take a real look at the top businesses. Rich and famous? Or just the public face of a lot of other people's hard work. That's good! You have to be happy for other people's success. It's a luxury. A really good credit card makes up a lot of business today. One good client pays the bills. Everything else likely gets a no. Getting a look even if it ends in a no is quite an accomplishment. It's a fight at the top. A bad one. Some people want to do horrible things. Our side convinces people to pursue peace and knowledge. Sometimes you're just not ready. There's someone here talking about a 6 month gap in their resume. The job interview is not a court of law. Just say: "I had my own clients." > "oh yeah? How that go?" "Good! I made more money with them." > "Huh. So why you quit?" "I sold it. I sold the business." Don't sell yourself short. Don't cheerlead either. Hindsight always makes you feel bad. Decide, and stick to the script no matter what. Admitting to mistakes and relating to people are for the ones at the top of the food chain. They might as well be in a different universe. Also, there's the killer cold outbreak. If you're willing to work, I think they'll take you. A lot of people well off are not going to risk it. They'll go back home and take care of their family.

LarryDarrell 7y ago

I suspect it's because there isn't much advice to give. My answer, having checked a few of your boxes... Your lifetime wages are going to be lower than many of your peers. This is unlikely to change. Adjust your worldview accordingly. Don't assume any debt that relies on increasing future earnings to be comfortable. By all means, keep trying, but stay level headed. Success for most is not always right around the corner. Prior to SV eating the world, the only people that said that we all should be entrepreneurs really just wanted you in their Amway downline. Society doesn't like to show the magnitude failures out there, or worse, the getting-by'ers. There are a lot of self-conscious IT people in the midwest making $70k/year feeling like failures, when they are the winners of Kokomo, IN. Read some philosophy. Buy a reliable used car. Look inward for contentment. Try therapy if your shitty childhood and shitty parents made inward a hard place to look.

chosenbreed37 7y ago
> Read some philosophy. Buy a reliable used car. Look inward for contentment. Try therapy if your shitty childhood and shitty parents made inward a hard place to look. I'd recommend the following: 1. Meditations - Marcus Aurelius 2. 12 Rules for Life - Jordan B Peterson 3. Letters from a self made merchant - John Graham
- hckr_news 7y ago
  After my working life had induced anxiety, panic attacks, and a host of other issues which really started to rear their ugly head I’ve become a much more religious person. On top of the professional help I’ve sought out for these issues, it has also helped a lot in my case when you internalize deep that work/money/material success really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme and there’s a greater goal to work towards.
  - whitebread 7y ago
    What is this greater goal you speak of?
    - 7y ago

bob33212 7y ago

To paraphrase you are asking what should people who are not achieving their goals do? I have read that the meaning of life is love and freedom and doing what you enjoy. What that means is different for everyone, but you have to ask yourself what that means to you. If that means have millions of dollars in just a few years, great. Read "think and grow rich" to see who you need to become. Otherwise don't waste you time following what others think success looks like.

quesera 7y ago

This is not bad luck. This is the normal state of life. It may be depressing (non-clinical), it might be disappointing, it might be discouraging, but it is 100% bog-standard ordinary. The feeling that you are suffering more than other people is the true harm caused. Your points: * Graduated at the wrong time: How many thousands of people graduated between 2008 and 2010? That is by definition ordinary. * Never met that magical person to makes your life magical: You said it yourself. Do you think most people meet magical people? * Resilient financial safety net: You've read the statistics, right? Most people don't have a month's income saved for difficult times. * Mental safety net/health issues: OK, there's some randomness here. But many people struggle with some form of this. * Having dependents: Well, blended choice and randomness, to some extent. But controllable usually, if you mean offspring. Adult dependents (parents) are harder, but far less common. * Large company rips off/Some exec derails your project: Normal and ordinary. This is how things work. Disappointing, but don't let it be discouraging. That part is your choice. I think you're conflating "lack of unusual good luck" with "bad luck". They are not the same. Don't imagine that the lucky individuals for whom the stars aligned are in any way normal. They just get all the press.

CM30 7y ago
Yeah, I think it's definitely worth remembering that the people and organisations making millions/billions of dollars and 'changing the world' are in the news because it's rare. Most musicians don't reach number 1, most film stars and YouTubers don't become millionaires, most startups don't become the next Facebook and most games on Steam or app stores just get buried. A combination of press coverage and social media has basically convinced an increasingly large percentage of the population than the outliers are the norm.

Arete314159 7y ago

I can speak to one of your points! I got dealt a bad hand in terms of health issues. However, a few years before I developed my health issues, I happened to have a long talk with a guy who had advanced MS. He told me that after his diagnosis, he tried to sock away as much money as possible and go for higher-paying jobs, as he knew that one day he'd become fully disabled and have to live on disability. Also, disability is pegged to your latest or average salary, so that's important to consider! (SS is an average, LTD is your most recent) During my 10 years of illness leading up to my eventual disability, I tried (with varying success) to do the following things: - Looked for jobs with slightly under full-time work loads to allow me time to rest (found only one for 2 years, but the extra rest helped me slow down disease progression a lot) - Looked for jobs with full benefit packages, including Short Term / Long Term Disability. If the job didn't offer it I signed up on my own - Maxed out HSA every year - Reduced my fixed costs as much as possible to prepare for living on a fixed income; moved to a LCOL area - Moved to a climate that was better for my health - Didn't have kids because I knew I wouldn't be healthy enough to bear them / raise them :-( - Researched how long term disability / social security disability worked (this site is really good: https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/social-security-disability/ https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/social-security-disability/ ) - Tried to do excellent work so my employers would still like me even with all my sick days

deleted 7y ago
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edraferi 7y ago
Very cool! Congratulations on your exceptionally clear-eyed approach to a major life challenge! I’m sure this sounds sarcastic, but I’m genuinely impressed. It takes a lot of mental discipline to examine long term trends, make a correct projection, identify an appropriate course of action and then implement it even when its disruptive to your personal life. I hope it worked well for you, and that you are living your best life despite your health challenges.
- Arete314159 7y ago
  Thanks! Yes, it is especially challenging because my health problems are in the unfortunate category: extremely disabling + poorly understood. So until I found specialists I got a lot of "Well everyone gets 'tired' sometimes" gaslighting from medical professionals. In other words I had to prepare for total disability being in my future, while also being told that nothing was wrong with me in my present by some doctors (not all, fortunately). So psychologically the greatest part of the challenge was to prepare for an extreme event (disability) while being told that nothing was wrong. I just had to listen to my body and hear when it told me I wasn't going to be able to work full time until retirement age, and then plan accordingly. So far, mostly due to the grace of God, I have turned out all right, thank you for your kind words. Getting approved for disability was brutal but I did eventually get approved. Side note: Unfortunately / fortunately, dealing with medical gaslighting for all these years helped my BS detector spot the issues in the "just the flu" narrative this year way ahead of the curve, and prepare appropriately. Sadly.

designium 7y ago

Most opinions and suggestions are based on the "standard path of success". If we use beauty contest as an analogy of success, only one will be the winner and all losers. In case of North American perspective, success looks like this: - Have good academic credentials - Have good big corporation names on your resume - Have good connections - Have nice car - Have nice house - Have kids, partner, etc. - Travel a lot when retired If we based our life against that standard, then it is going to be easier to be depressed once a person's life deviates from it. The other extreme, suggested by some others here, is to accept and be content about "c'est la vie" concept - life will suck and get over it, and its variations. I think that is wrong because it reinforces the idea there is only one way to succeed and have a good life. My suggestion is simpler: - Cover your base: do you have a place to live? do you feel safe where you live? do you have good quality food that you like to eat? do you have a group of friends to hangout and rely on? do you have an income source that is relatively stable? - Then you can focus on whatever you want to do; free yourself from rigid standards and paths. You can even pursue the stereotypical success lifestyle knowing that even if you fail, you can recover fast and try again.

mgolawala 7y ago
Well said. I was reading the responses, and seeing the implicit group consensus on what "success" looks like. The thing though is, your entire life outcome is based on luck. There is nothing you can really do to compensate for that, besides getting back up, brushing the dust of your knees, counting your blessings and keep going. List of things that are luck: 1) Where you were born in the wrong place at the wrong time. (think Afghanistan, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.) 2) Being born the wrong gender in the majority of the world by population (ie female). 3) Being born with the wrong sexual orientation in a huge chunk of the world. 4) Being born with a health condition (physical or mental), or with a learning disability. Even a mild one like ADHD or dyslexia. 5) Being born to the wrong set of parents. ie. belonging to the wrong community/religion/race... in the majority of the world. Honestly, even your mental capacity and grit are to a large extent (if not completely) luck. If developed via nurture, you didn't pick how you were nurtured. If nature, you didn't pick the genetic combination you were born with. So really, what is left? What percentage of your 'success' can you actually take credit for?

techpop10 7y ago

The one big thing I see missing here is the ability to increase your luck by networking and personal branding. You absolutely have to build your personal network. More exposure, more potential opportunity. Plain and simple - no matter what field you are in.

TurkishPoptart 7y ago
This is misinformation for people who are trying.
- techpop10 7y ago
  huh?
  - jlokier 7y ago
    I speculate that the GP means: For people who are already networking as much as they can, working hard on their personal brand, etc. and still finding it doesn't seem to be working out for them (probably most people), you're telling them to do what they are already doing and that it will make them more successful. That's isn't useful. It's non-actionable advice, and empirically wrong in their experience. For people in that situation, your advice is pointing them in the wrong direction, and that's what I read into "misinformation" in the GP comment.

specialist 7y ago

- Mentorship, and how to find it Reflecting on my career of failure, unfulfilled potential, compared to the biographies of "successful" people, what they all seem to have which I lacked was a mentor. That person who said "You can do this. I believe in you. Let's talk it thru." To counterbalance all the people who actively or passively tear you down.

Viliam1234 7y ago
Finding the right people is a very important part of luck. At different stages of my life, I often had a person who made more difference than all other people combined. (And, as far as I know, I was this person for someone else once. So, globally, I am still in debt. Should do something about it.)

mcguire 7y ago

- You have a habit of picking interesting work over jobs that will "strap a booster rocket to your career". - You do everything right and, like most people, it still doesn't work.

ChuckMcM 7y ago

For people with bad luck or from people with bad luck? It is often inspiring to hear from folks who haven't been on the success rocket doing just fine and having a great life. The subtext here though is always "scoring" your success. There is the zen koan about one mans bad luck is another mans opportunity. But it really seems that the message is more "don't measure your own success unrealistically or you will always see yourself as having 'bad luck' when, in fact, you have a great life."

RookyNumbas 7y ago

When I think of the very successful people I know, all have gone through life events that would absolutely flatten most people. The loss of a child, a partner committing suicide, 6 businesses failing, 2 weeks in an induced comma. And yet a stranger looks at their accomplishments and thinks that they just didn't have bad luck.

wondringaloud 7y ago
This is absolutely true. I've noticed most "unsuccessful" people go around with a view of "successful" people that they got lucky, never had to endure hardship, had something handed to them, and so on. It's a defeatist, whiny attitude. I've put "un/successful" in quotes because I'm referring to the common interpretation of success/failure being purely financial. There are many other ways to lead an "unsuccessful" but fulfilling life, and I'd argue the place to start is to accept the hand you've been dealt. And to work with it rather than rail against it.

antisthenes 7y ago

Well, I definitely hit at least 3 of these things. #1 (good luck landing a decent job in 2009) #2 (turns out no one cares about you when you're unemployed) #5 (not Ivy League and mediocre GPA) Safety net was decent, so I was able to at least look for a job for some time. #4 doesn't really apply.

xivzgrev 7y ago

I've found that success in life is correlated with how closely you hit on actual "truths" in the world. For example, you join company X on a rocket ship. Your equity value skyrockets - those assets were actually undervalued relative to what someone would pay for them later. One of the hardest things in life is that we don't actually know the "truth", no one does. But what we can do is learn to spot ways we tell ourselves convenient lies - this is why Buffet + Munger did SO much work on studying human biases. If we had a perfect ability to spot every falsehood, we would be left with the bare truth. Given it's an imperfect system, "bad luck" can be simplified to "you keep missing the truth". And it's often not our fault - how the hell could anyone have known about COVID-19, and impact on their company, far enough in advance to actually move to safer waters prior? But it's worth examining why you made the decision to do X - were there any truths you missed, or lies you told yourself? Through that process, you can get better at spotting falsehoods or clarifying your values, so that even if you don't ever land on a rocket ship, you find a workplace you are happy at. For example, one of my early jobs was at a turd of a company. I knew BEFORE that it wasn't a great opportunity. But I was desperate to leave my current situation so I took it. Within a few weeks, I KNEW it was still a turd. But I didn't want to pay the relocation bonus back if I left so soon. So I stuck it out, ended up being there for a few years, and it mostly was wasted time. So now I turn down jobs where I feel like that going in. I need to feel great about the company's situation. But even that's not foolproof. I had another company where the company was doing GREAT. Fucking rocketship. Then literally within a few months of me joining, it went down the tubes and barely survived. So I also learned to be more wary of quickly growing, younger companies as well. Now I'm at a steadily growing larger company, that's managed well, and I love it. One last piece of advance - google "It works". It's a little book about writing a list of what you want and constantly looking at it. I did it during my last job search and literally got an (almost) dream job. Give it a try.

TurkishPoptart 7y ago
can you link directly to the book? thanks.
- tome 7y ago
  Perhaps it's this https://www.amazon.com/Works-Famous-Little-Makes-Dreams-ebook/dp/B005X7F49C https://www.amazon.com/Works-Famous-Little-Makes-Dreams-eboo... It Works: The Famous Little Red Book That Makes Your Dreams Come True by RHJ

sifar 7y ago

Read Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius. There are some things that are in your control, while others that are not. Concentrate on the former. How can you improve your skills, learn new ones. Lower your expenses, stay healthy, avoid debt. It might take longer, because of all the dead ends you have encountered, but eventually you'll get there. But more importantly, don't let those things make you bitter.

RedBeetDeadpool 7y ago

Another huge aspect of "bad luck" is just meeting unusual numbers of bad people. By that I mean people who have an intention to harm you in some way or another instead just being the typical look out for oneself or even the more empathetic caring kind of person. You dont really choose the people you run into but there are absolutely skills you can learn in order to deal with them in healthy ways. A significant portion part of someone's career is based on politics and surprisingly little on skill.

starpilot 7y ago

There was an article about "luck" a few years ago and how researchers really found "luck" was somewhat in our control. Graduating in a recession isn't, but being "blindsided" is - luck had a strong component of being attentive and aware to the world around them. This derived from a calm wellbeing. I used to know someone who always lamented her "bad luck." Stuff like car accidents, or getting physically injured. She was also the most profoundly depressed and anxious person I had ever met, like within minutes you could tell she was disturbed. You could tell her bad "luck" was her mode of being constant distracted, but there wasn't really any advice you could give other than "work on your mental state," which she already knew. Her original bad luck over which she had no control was an unhappy upbringing, which is truly unfortunate, but that's not the last word on life.

DrNuke 7y ago

Not taking it personal helps, though... we cast our net daily and see what emerges?

pmiller2 7y ago

Depending on the interpretation, I've had between 3 and 5 out of these 5 things happen to me. I could have used the advice you're asking for about 10-15 years ago.

friendlybus 7y ago

Some things are outside your control, luck by definition is outside your control. - Your business sector will come back post COVID. - You can’t control other people - Control who is dependent on you, and fix your health best you can. - You can mitigate macro level risks. These techniques come at a cost. - You can get magic paper at the wrong age, but it costs. Or find other ways in. Frankly this discussion about luck is incredibly weak. You didn’t get everything you wanted, some things you can control and others you can’t. Appealing to luck might encourage some people to plaster over your mistakes and inability to eat loss with money and submission. There is no advice to give because you have framed the conversation around what your heart wants and thrown any rational decision making possible into submission to luck. You aren’t a victim of luck, it is by definition something nobody ever escapes and is a subset of randomness. An easy out for the unhappy. You are still ultimately responsible for your life, even the bits you can’t control. You make your own luck.

dennis_jeeves 7y ago

> - You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks, or you got dealt a bad hand in the form of things like dependents or health issues and simply can't afford to take risks The 'friends' part is something that I think can be potentially fixed. 'Friends' who can truly support you AND who are worthy of being supported in times of need are rare. But I think if one searches hard enough and find reasonable people to from an alliance with (without necessarily being friends) this problem can reduced. But it is needle in a hay stack endeavor. Most people in my observation are not worthy of receiving help ( for example they do not save enough money when they earn, so cannot be trusted to have the financial disciple to pay back) or conversely they are not in a position to help ( to cite the same example because they have not been saving enough money, they don't have enough money to lend to you).

bythckr 7y ago

> you graduated in 2008-2010/now Any advice for that?

scottlocklin 7y ago

Go read Baltasar Gracian's art of worldly wisdom. https://sacred-texts.com/eso/aww/index.htm https://sacred-texts.com/eso/aww/index.htm xxi The Art of being Lucky. There are rules of luck: it is not all chance with the wise: it can be assisted by care. Some content themselves with placing them-selves confidently at the gate of Fortune, waiting till she opens it. Others do better, and press forward and profit by their clever boldness, reaching the goddess and winning her favour on the wings of their virtue and valour. But on a true philosophy there is no other umpire than virtue and insight; for there is no luck or ill-luck except wisdom and the reverse. xxxi Select the Lucky and avoid the Unlucky. Ill-luck is generally the penalty of folly, and there is no disease so contagious to those who share in it. Never open the door to a lesser evil, for other and greater ones invariably slink in after it. The greatest skill at cards is to know when to discard; the smallest of current trumps is worth more than the ace of trumps of the last game. When in doubt, follow the suit of the wise and prudent; sooner or later they will win the odd trick. xxxvi In Acting or Refraining, weigh your Luck. More depends on that than on noticing your temperament. If he is a fool who at forty applies to Hippocrates for health, still more is he one who then first applies to Seneca for wisdom. It is a great piece of skill to know how to guide your luck even while waiting for it. For something is to be done with it by waiting so as to use it at the proper moment, since it has periods and offers opportunities, though one cannot calculate its path, its steps are so irregular. When you find Fortune favourable, stride boldly forward, for she favours the bold and, being a woman, the young. But if you have bad luck, keep retired so as not to redouble the influence of your unlucky star.

bagacrap 7y ago

I graduated in 08 and that was a GREAT time to enter the work force and start earning equity at a very low strike price right before a decade of amazing economic growth.

banannaise 7y ago

As someone who got hit with several of those: the best advice is "Find good ways to deal with your frustration and start adjusting your expectations downward. Start by getting a therapist." Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to recover your losses besides "get lucky in the future". Your career advice is the same as everyone else's, just with worse expected outcomes.