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I switched from a macOS laptop to a Linux laptop and it’s been completely the opposite for me. I’ve been spending so much time fighting the OS, I’m actually con

I switched from a macOS laptop to a Linux laptop and it’s been completely the opposite for me. I’ve been spending so much time fighting the OS, I’m actually considering buying a Mac again even though the laptop is just a few months old. You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends. Just as one example of many, when the device is connected to a Thunderbolt display the Intel wifi driver crashes and restarts periodically which freezes USB input for about 15 seconds every time. This issue persisted across different Linux distributions, kernels and firmware versions. Don’t ask how long it took to figure this out. I have now connected a USB wifi dongle to the displays USB hub. I really miss the plug+play nature of macOS, I think Linux has it advantages and it might be better on desktops but it’s just been horrible for me on a laptop. I might have to try a MacBook plus a fast Linux desktop next.

xnyan 7y ago
I’ve had the same experience. Using windows and linux now, it’s shocking but windows has been a pretty good experience for getting work done.
gen220 7y ago
Linux laptops are a mixed bag, to say the least. One-off "precision tuned" (vs commodity) hardware is often to blame. In general, if you want a stable linux laptop experience, you should be buying old. It's not very attractive, but it is sustainable -- which is it's own kind of attractive! :) In general, my experience using debian-based distros as a laptop driver have been more or less frictionless. I use an older lenovo thinkpad (x1 carbon, 1st generation, purchased for like $200 secondhand a year and a half ago). In general, thinkpads have a reputation for having a plug+play linux experience, once you boot for the first time. I'd recommend giving them a try before throwing in the towel, if you have any patience in reserve. You can get pre-owned (older=more stable linux support) t-series thinkpads with very nice specs, especially if you're willing to trade off display resolution. Plus the parts that die (batteries, ram) are all commodity and replaceable, you could presumably run with the same laptop for a decade, if you're in to that sort of thing.
- read_if_gay_ 7y ago
  This actually is a ThinkPad :( It’s a new X390 Yoga though. Maybe they’ve dropped the ball a little, it definitely matches my friends’ experience that the more traditional models are pretty stable.
  - karlgrz 7y ago
    Anecdotal evidence but I've had a great experience with the first gen X1 Extreme 4K and running ubuntu 18.04.
    - nullobject 7y ago
      I recentely ordered the X1 Extreme v2 and I am rediculously excited. It's my first non-Apple laptop in 20 years.
  - gen220 7y ago
    Sorry to hear this. Yeah, it’s probably a matter of getting an older one. The newer ones are trying to compete with surfaces and mbp, and it’s been painful to watch :/
- celicaraptor 7y ago
  Hi, i have a Thinkpad L450 and when i was looking at switching to Ubuntu on my laptop, i saw that it had worse batery life than windows,i don't remember how much,maybe 10-15%?Do you have any experience on that?Battery life is pretty important for when i take my laptop on courses(not anymore eh)
  - snazz 7y ago
    TLP can be very effective. Have you tried it?
    - celicaraptor 7y ago
      I did try it,however i do not remember if it made any difference.Perhaps i didn't configure it properly?
core-questions 7y ago
> You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends. No, you're not incompetent. As usual, manufacturers are putting weird features into their laptops that the Linux drivers and userspace can't keep up with - e.g. the debacle that is the Nvidia Prime gpu switching tech for low power vs high performance modes. Simply doesn't work most of the time, leaving you scratching your head. UEFI related woes are also common as we finally deal with having to give up on a decent experience with legacy boot. At this point the wise person buys a laptop with official Linux support out of the box. It helps you and it helps the community (vote with your dollars!).
- taurath 7y ago
  Unfortunately I’ve had similar issues with “official” Linux supported hardware. Linux on desktop still requires forum diving.
  - kyawzazaw 7y ago
    I have been using popOS and have no problems really. The docking/connecting to Monitors/webcams have been really smooth. I am not a power user of other peripherals though.
  - freedomben 7y ago
    Who is declaring that hardware "official" and if they're calling it "supported" shouldn't they be supporting it?
    - taurath 7y ago
      It was a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition with Ubuntu, far and away the most recommended distro/hardware combination. Everything else seems to be less supported. If someone doesn't know how to dig into terminal commands and google stuff on your phone to troubleshoot, you shouldn't even attempt linux on a desktop.
      - 7y ago
pwr22 7y ago
I recently got a new laptop and bought it from one of those linux specialist places after having a pretty terrible compatibility experience with my previous high end HP laptop.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 7y ago
Laptop vs. Desktop. Linux laptop experience is notorious for weird quirks and instabilities with the hardware. Desktop is a lot smoother.
ufmace 7y ago
I don't completely love any setup, but I'm starting to think that Windows 10 + WSL is the best open-source development setup. Huge variety of hardware, plus all hardware actually works right, plus pretty much any popular desktop app works reliably and has a good GUI, plus all Linux CLI tools are there and work right.
twicetwice 7y ago
What laptop are you using? I think that would be helpful context. I've been running Ubuntu 16.04 on my Dell XPS 15 9560 with almost no issues (and none that aren't easily resolved with a shell script or a keyboard shortcut) for almost three years now. I get the sense that the more popular the hardware, the fewer issues you'll have running Linux on it. I certainly wouldn't call you "too incompetent" -- but I might call you just plain unlucky. If you want to go back to macOS because you don't have to be "lucky" to get a laptop that plays nice, I don't blame you. But for me, the tradeoffs to stay on Linux have been minimal and absolutely worth it.
drEv0 7y ago
Far less obscure than the issue you cite but I have found keyboard shortcuts across the OS and third party apps on Linux are so incredibly inconsistent when compared to macOS (or Windows for that matter.) I find I'm constantly bouncing between control, alt, and super to achieve what I could do in macOS with just super.
tracker1 7y ago
As an intermediate, install windows on the insiders channel, though update 20h1/2004 should be out soon for GA. I had to jump into windows for a few things last month, and WSL2 on windows has become pretty good and bearable, the Docker beta support for WSL2 also really good... seems to use a bit more memory than I recall. But linux cli with a Windows GUI has been surprisingly bearable... Remote (wsl/ssh) extensions for VS Code invaluable as well.
- pat2man 7y ago
  You are saying the alternate to probably the most used developer setup is a combination of multiple beta release channels?
  - tracker1 7y ago
    I am suggesting trying a software-only alternative to buying another laptop.
fold3 7y ago
Truth is, Linux doesn't work well on new hardware unless it is some specific models that state Linux support like some dell or thinkpad machines. You bugs will probably be fixed in a couple of months/years.

xnyan 7y ago

I’ve had the same experience. Using windows and linux now, it’s shocking but windows has been a pretty good experience for getting work done.

gen220 7y ago

Linux laptops are a mixed bag, to say the least. One-off "precision tuned" (vs commodity) hardware is often to blame. In general, if you want a stable linux laptop experience, you should be buying old. It's not very attractive, but it is sustainable -- which is it's own kind of attractive! :) In general, my experience using debian-based distros as a laptop driver have been more or less frictionless. I use an older lenovo thinkpad (x1 carbon, 1st generation, purchased for like $200 secondhand a year and a half ago). In general, thinkpads have a reputation for having a plug+play linux experience, once you boot for the first time. I'd recommend giving them a try before throwing in the towel, if you have any patience in reserve. You can get pre-owned (older=more stable linux support) t-series thinkpads with very nice specs, especially if you're willing to trade off display resolution. Plus the parts that die (batteries, ram) are all commodity and replaceable, you could presumably run with the same laptop for a decade, if you're in to that sort of thing.

read_if_gay_ 7y ago
This actually is a ThinkPad :( It’s a new X390 Yoga though. Maybe they’ve dropped the ball a little, it definitely matches my friends’ experience that the more traditional models are pretty stable.
- karlgrz 7y ago
  Anecdotal evidence but I've had a great experience with the first gen X1 Extreme 4K and running ubuntu 18.04.
  - nullobject 7y ago
    I recentely ordered the X1 Extreme v2 and I am rediculously excited. It's my first non-Apple laptop in 20 years.
- gen220 7y ago
  Sorry to hear this. Yeah, it’s probably a matter of getting an older one. The newer ones are trying to compete with surfaces and mbp, and it’s been painful to watch :/
celicaraptor 7y ago
Hi, i have a Thinkpad L450 and when i was looking at switching to Ubuntu on my laptop, i saw that it had worse batery life than windows,i don't remember how much,maybe 10-15%?Do you have any experience on that?Battery life is pretty important for when i take my laptop on courses(not anymore eh)
- snazz 7y ago
  TLP can be very effective. Have you tried it?
  - celicaraptor 7y ago
    I did try it,however i do not remember if it made any difference.Perhaps i didn't configure it properly?

core-questions 7y ago

> You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends. No, you're not incompetent. As usual, manufacturers are putting weird features into their laptops that the Linux drivers and userspace can't keep up with - e.g. the debacle that is the Nvidia Prime gpu switching tech for low power vs high performance modes. Simply doesn't work most of the time, leaving you scratching your head. UEFI related woes are also common as we finally deal with having to give up on a decent experience with legacy boot. At this point the wise person buys a laptop with official Linux support out of the box. It helps you and it helps the community (vote with your dollars!).

taurath 7y ago
Unfortunately I’ve had similar issues with “official” Linux supported hardware. Linux on desktop still requires forum diving.
- kyawzazaw 7y ago
  I have been using popOS and have no problems really. The docking/connecting to Monitors/webcams have been really smooth. I am not a power user of other peripherals though.
- freedomben 7y ago
  Who is declaring that hardware "official" and if they're calling it "supported" shouldn't they be supporting it?
  - taurath 7y ago
    It was a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition with Ubuntu, far and away the most recommended distro/hardware combination. Everything else seems to be less supported. If someone doesn't know how to dig into terminal commands and google stuff on your phone to troubleshoot, you shouldn't even attempt linux on a desktop.
    - 7y ago

pwr22 7y ago

I recently got a new laptop and bought it from one of those linux specialist places after having a pretty terrible compatibility experience with my previous high end HP laptop.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 7y ago

Laptop vs. Desktop. Linux laptop experience is notorious for weird quirks and instabilities with the hardware. Desktop is a lot smoother.

ufmace 7y ago

I don't completely love any setup, but I'm starting to think that Windows 10 + WSL is the best open-source development setup. Huge variety of hardware, plus all hardware actually works right, plus pretty much any popular desktop app works reliably and has a good GUI, plus all Linux CLI tools are there and work right.

twicetwice 7y ago

What laptop are you using? I think that would be helpful context. I've been running Ubuntu 16.04 on my Dell XPS 15 9560 with almost no issues (and none that aren't easily resolved with a shell script or a keyboard shortcut) for almost three years now. I get the sense that the more popular the hardware, the fewer issues you'll have running Linux on it. I certainly wouldn't call you "too incompetent" -- but I might call you just plain unlucky. If you want to go back to macOS because you don't have to be "lucky" to get a laptop that plays nice, I don't blame you. But for me, the tradeoffs to stay on Linux have been minimal and absolutely worth it.

drEv0 7y ago

Far less obscure than the issue you cite but I have found keyboard shortcuts across the OS and third party apps on Linux are so incredibly inconsistent when compared to macOS (or Windows for that matter.) I find I'm constantly bouncing between control, alt, and super to achieve what I could do in macOS with just super.

tracker1 7y ago

As an intermediate, install windows on the insiders channel, though update 20h1/2004 should be out soon for GA. I had to jump into windows for a few things last month, and WSL2 on windows has become pretty good and bearable, the Docker beta support for WSL2 also really good... seems to use a bit more memory than I recall. But linux cli with a Windows GUI has been surprisingly bearable... Remote (wsl/ssh) extensions for VS Code invaluable as well.

pat2man 7y ago
You are saying the alternate to probably the most used developer setup is a combination of multiple beta release channels?
- tracker1 7y ago
  I am suggesting trying a software-only alternative to buying another laptop.

fold3 7y ago

Truth is, Linux doesn't work well on new hardware unless it is some specific models that state Linux support like some dell or thinkpad machines. You bugs will probably be fixed in a couple of months/years.