8 ms·

Compared to my first gen SE, I'd like the faster processor, better camera and better battery life. But I'm not sure I'm willing to go up in size and weight, and

by m12k 7y ago

Compared to my first gen SE, I'd like the faster processor, better camera and better battery life. But I'm not sure I'm willing to go up in size and weight, and get the rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed. For me, a bigger screen isn't a plus - after years of following the trend and being on my phone more and more, I managed to kick the habit and I'm very happy that my phone has now found its rightful place as a utility when I'm off my computer, rather than as a primary computer. I use it for maps, e-tickets, answering the occasional im. But it's not as convenient as my computer, it's not for leisurely browsing or media consumption, and I don't want it to be - it means that when I'm off my computer, I'm really off. So this push toward bigger screens runs counter to what I want a phone to be for me. A bigger screen invites you to grab it with both hands. A bigger screen invites you to watch more stuff on it, watch movies, browse reddit and whatnot. I don't want any of that, I'd in fact prefer if it wasn't good at that, just like I don't want more sugar in my food.

antigirl 7y ago
This is a fair point but everything is online and at our finger tips. Having it on your phone just means you’re not sitting at your computer for longer hours, hurting your back, neck and even fingers.
- markosaric 7y ago
  Aren't there some of the same "wellbeing" issues with the prolonged or ergonomically wrong use of a mobile phone too? Neck, fingers, eyes?
  - antigirl 7y ago
    RSI's are a result of prolonged use of the same apparatus, switching to phone after long day of computer use would help in that case. Doesnt help with the eyes or the forward head posture, i agree.
- nunodonato 7y ago
  Lots of people having fingers and neck pain due to phone usage. I see lots of bad posture as well
  - iso947 7y ago
    My hand was hurting after just 40 minutes of using an XR. I’m back on my 2016 SE.
- timvdalen 7y ago
  This is anecdotal, of course, but I hurt my body much more by using a phone as my primary computer. Using a desktop (with a proper keyboard) is much less taxing on my RSI than a phone is.
shrew 7y ago
I'm with you here, I went through a period of moving to feature phones and ditching the smart watch to reduce the phone back to utility rather than a distraction. But feature phones, even those running kaiOS, just don't have the support for communication tools and things like 2fa authenticator apps. I eventually went for an iPhone SE (2016) in the last year, after it was discontinued and managed to get a boxed, new unit for less than even the low-end android market phones go for. Thus far it's the most enjoyable phone to use having moved from an S8 which was certainly "better" on paper. The size is incredibly portable and easy to handle, the battery, despite only being 1500mAh, does a very good job lasting me the day (though I certainly expect it won't continue to do so) and the screen is acceptable but annoying enough that I don't want to be using it for long stretches. It's got the lastest iOS and I fully expect the lack of iOS 14 support will be the reason I have to swap it for a new model once software support falls away. It seems like this new SE model is still the smallest phone you can get despite the increase in dimensions and weight that you mention. It's nice to see a comment that shares my view and I hope a market for the smaller phone will come back around similar to that odd stage in the early 00s where handsets suddenly became impossibly small.
- yhoiseth 7y ago
  > It's got the lastest iOS and I fully expect the lack of iOS 14 support will be the reason I have to swap it for a new model once software support falls away. For what it’s worth, Apple last updated iOS 12 on March 24th, so they seem to be supporting not only the most recent major version of iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
  - shrew 7y ago
    I didn't know this, this is excellent news. Thank you! I was worried that my work policy might block my phone without the latest firmware.
    - yhoiseth 7y ago
      Note that Apple, as far as I’m aware, doesn’t officialy support any other iOS version than the latest. So your employer might still block your phone.
d--b 7y ago
Totally agree. I'd like to love the light phone 2. It's just not quite there yet...
amedvednikov 7y ago
Agreed. I'll keep using my 2016 SE.
mihaaly 7y ago
The slightly bigger body I could accommodate, the rounded edges are f* ugly but can handle that too if I must, even the dumb protruding camera may not repel me if I meditate enough but not having audio connection without some kind of adapter or adapters - considering the various use cases - is just incomprehensibly idiotic. I will never ever go for such. I rather have a granny-phone and paper+pen address book, relearn using printed maps and never carry around e-tickets than giving that amount of money for a defective product design, for an audio device without audio connection (that'd also spare me of annoying update and uninvited functionality frenzy as an extra btw.). This functionality degradation for the sake of design mania indicates utter madness and gross incompetence!
- encom 7y ago
  Just the very idea of installing firmware updates on a set of headphones is completely bizarre.
  - edmundsauto 7y ago
    We live in an age where cars reboot while driving (Tesla). It's bizarre because we never experienced it before. But the additional flexibility offered via software updates is the core power of software. Where we are able to replace hardware with software functionality, there's additional flexibility for improvement and iteration. That's a valuable add.
    - mihaaly 7y ago
      The bizarre here is squeezing in matters into things just because we can. Using techniques just for the sake of using those techniques or approaches elsewhere is not a good enough argument. It is bad putting software into anything and everything, just because we do it frequently to other things. It should have much better reason for that. Complicating unnecessarily and many times introducing risks and troubles is a no good. “A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Sadly, we forget this simple fact.
  - 7y ago
atomi 7y ago
Most of us here work with workstations or laptops, daily. But generally speaking not as many people are using them in their home. A lot of folks do use their phones primarily for media watching and browsing. And that's a big chunk of Apple's market.
- iso1631 7y ago
  It makes perfect sense to have Cheap phone with big screen and not much else - the "lowest common denominator" Expensive phone with big screen - the "power user" Expensive phone with small screen - the mobile user Laptops tend to come in such groupings, why is the last group ignored when it comes to phones?
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    My theory is they want us to forget about small phones and then reintroduce them as a shiny new feature. History goes in spiral.
  - nordsieck 7y ago
    > why is the last group ignored when it comes to phones? Presumably because there isn't actually that much demand for that category. Apple tried it out with the original SE and they have the sales data. If there were tons of people clamoring for a sequel, they would have made one instead of a refreshed iPhone 8.
  - Leherenn 7y ago
    I think one part is that they're afraid to be grilled by reviews leading to bad sales. A $1000 4" phone won't have the same capabilities as a $1000 6.5" phone, and reviewers somehow do not seem to understand it might be ok and will trash the smaller phone.
ubercow13 7y ago
>rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed I don't get this criticism - I owned a 5 series iPhone and the anodized finish was anything but easy to grip. It looked nice but massively reduced the friction between your hand and the surface, making it the easiest phone to drop that I have ever held. Their lightness didn't help either. Conversely the newer iPhones with glass backs stick to your skin almost like glue in comparison, and if anything I find the rounded corners increase the amount of the phone surface in contact with your skin.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  I used iPhone 4S for 4 years and did not drop it once. I dropped iPhone 8 first day, I have no idea how to hold it, so I bought case immediately. Now it's bearable. Another reason for using a case is a terrible camera protruding from the phone.
- chongli 7y ago
  What climate do you live in? I live in the north (Canada) and during the winter my skin gets very dry. The glass and metal of recent iPhones feels extremely slippery to my dry skin. I use a rubberized case which makes the phone much more grippable, at the cost of even more bulk. I really want a small, lightweight, grippable iPhone.
  - ubercow13 7y ago
    This was in the UK so not very humid. Interesting that everyone's experience is so different. I just dried my hand and holding it flat with my XS placed on top, I can tilt it to about 15-20 degrees off vertical before it starts slipping off!
sbruno 7y ago
I hear you. I was like you for the longest time. I had an SE for 3~ years and I absolutely loved it. I researched and researched to find another phone with the exact same dimensions. Couldnt find anything. The thought of moving up to a bigger phone pained me. I eventually bought the iphone 8 about 6 months ago. And my god, it is just as good if not better. The size that scared me so much? Turns out I like it even more. The speed has been great, and I never knew how much I'd appreciate the larger screen. Point is, I know where you're coming from. But trust me, the iphone 8 size still feels relatively easy to hold (I can still comfortably hold it with one hand 100% of the time), and I have 0 regrets whatsoever about the upgrade.
- fumar 7y ago
  I agree the 8 and now the SE 2020 is a great size. I traded up to the 11 and found the size difference to be negligible. You can see for yourself in the dimensions section: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=9847#diff-*,*,* https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=9847#diff-*,*...
bluntfang 7y ago
>the rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed. Do people really not use a case with their phones? edit: Can anyone explain the downvotes? is this a bad question?
- Tepix 7y ago
  Never.
- plorkyeran 7y ago
  Why would I want to make my already too large phone even bigger by adding a case?
  - bluntfang 7y ago
    because it breaks when you drop it? it provides a gripped texture so that it's easier to hold on to?
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      If we're talking about iPhones, they don't necessarily break when you drop it, especially the last few generations. You might get an unsightly scuff on the back or edge, at worst the back glass might crack — but it will do so in such a way that the phone still won't shatter. In fact, my partner's iPhone and my previous one both broke in independent incidents when both were in cases. My new phone, I don't use a case, drop it regularly on asphalt, concrete, and it's even taken a dive into hot dishwashing water — and it's just fine. I know somebody will come along with a story about how theirs smashed into smithereens but, for my money, Apple builds their phones to last.
      - bluntfang 7y ago
        > at worst the back glass might crack this isn't broken??
        7y ago

by m12k 7y ago

antigirl 7y ago

This is a fair point but everything is online and at our finger tips. Having it on your phone just means you’re not sitting at your computer for longer hours, hurting your back, neck and even fingers.

markosaric 7y ago
Aren't there some of the same "wellbeing" issues with the prolonged or ergonomically wrong use of a mobile phone too? Neck, fingers, eyes?
- antigirl 7y ago
  RSI's are a result of prolonged use of the same apparatus, switching to phone after long day of computer use would help in that case. Doesnt help with the eyes or the forward head posture, i agree.
nunodonato 7y ago
Lots of people having fingers and neck pain due to phone usage. I see lots of bad posture as well
- iso947 7y ago
  My hand was hurting after just 40 minutes of using an XR. I’m back on my 2016 SE.
timvdalen 7y ago
This is anecdotal, of course, but I hurt my body much more by using a phone as my primary computer. Using a desktop (with a proper keyboard) is much less taxing on my RSI than a phone is.

shrew 7y ago

I'm with you here, I went through a period of moving to feature phones and ditching the smart watch to reduce the phone back to utility rather than a distraction. But feature phones, even those running kaiOS, just don't have the support for communication tools and things like 2fa authenticator apps. I eventually went for an iPhone SE (2016) in the last year, after it was discontinued and managed to get a boxed, new unit for less than even the low-end android market phones go for. Thus far it's the most enjoyable phone to use having moved from an S8 which was certainly "better" on paper. The size is incredibly portable and easy to handle, the battery, despite only being 1500mAh, does a very good job lasting me the day (though I certainly expect it won't continue to do so) and the screen is acceptable but annoying enough that I don't want to be using it for long stretches. It's got the lastest iOS and I fully expect the lack of iOS 14 support will be the reason I have to swap it for a new model once software support falls away. It seems like this new SE model is still the smallest phone you can get despite the increase in dimensions and weight that you mention. It's nice to see a comment that shares my view and I hope a market for the smaller phone will come back around similar to that odd stage in the early 00s where handsets suddenly became impossibly small.

yhoiseth 7y ago
> It's got the lastest iOS and I fully expect the lack of iOS 14 support will be the reason I have to swap it for a new model once software support falls away. For what it’s worth, Apple last updated iOS 12 on March 24th, so they seem to be supporting not only the most recent major version of iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
- shrew 7y ago
  I didn't know this, this is excellent news. Thank you! I was worried that my work policy might block my phone without the latest firmware.
  - yhoiseth 7y ago
    Note that Apple, as far as I’m aware, doesn’t officialy support any other iOS version than the latest. So your employer might still block your phone.

d--b 7y ago

Totally agree. I'd like to love the light phone 2. It's just not quite there yet...

amedvednikov 7y ago

Agreed. I'll keep using my 2016 SE.

mihaaly 7y ago

The slightly bigger body I could accommodate, the rounded edges are f* ugly but can handle that too if I must, even the dumb protruding camera may not repel me if I meditate enough but not having audio connection without some kind of adapter or adapters - considering the various use cases - is just incomprehensibly idiotic. I will never ever go for such. I rather have a granny-phone and paper+pen address book, relearn using printed maps and never carry around e-tickets than giving that amount of money for a defective product design, for an audio device without audio connection (that'd also spare me of annoying update and uninvited functionality frenzy as an extra btw.). This functionality degradation for the sake of design mania indicates utter madness and gross incompetence!

encom 7y ago
Just the very idea of installing firmware updates on a set of headphones is completely bizarre.
- edmundsauto 7y ago
  We live in an age where cars reboot while driving (Tesla). It's bizarre because we never experienced it before. But the additional flexibility offered via software updates is the core power of software. Where we are able to replace hardware with software functionality, there's additional flexibility for improvement and iteration. That's a valuable add.
  - mihaaly 7y ago
    The bizarre here is squeezing in matters into things just because we can. Using techniques just for the sake of using those techniques or approaches elsewhere is not a good enough argument. It is bad putting software into anything and everything, just because we do it frequently to other things. It should have much better reason for that. Complicating unnecessarily and many times introducing risks and troubles is a no good. “A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Sadly, we forget this simple fact.
- 7y ago

atomi 7y ago

Most of us here work with workstations or laptops, daily. But generally speaking not as many people are using them in their home. A lot of folks do use their phones primarily for media watching and browsing. And that's a big chunk of Apple's market.

iso1631 7y ago
It makes perfect sense to have Cheap phone with big screen and not much else - the "lowest common denominator" Expensive phone with big screen - the "power user" Expensive phone with small screen - the mobile user Laptops tend to come in such groupings, why is the last group ignored when it comes to phones?
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  My theory is they want us to forget about small phones and then reintroduce them as a shiny new feature. History goes in spiral.
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > why is the last group ignored when it comes to phones? Presumably because there isn't actually that much demand for that category. Apple tried it out with the original SE and they have the sales data. If there were tons of people clamoring for a sequel, they would have made one instead of a refreshed iPhone 8.
- Leherenn 7y ago
  I think one part is that they're afraid to be grilled by reviews leading to bad sales. A $1000 4" phone won't have the same capabilities as a $1000 6.5" phone, and reviewers somehow do not seem to understand it might be ok and will trash the smaller phone.

ubercow13 7y ago

>rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed I don't get this criticism - I owned a 5 series iPhone and the anodized finish was anything but easy to grip. It looked nice but massively reduced the friction between your hand and the surface, making it the easiest phone to drop that I have ever held. Their lightness didn't help either. Conversely the newer iPhones with glass backs stick to your skin almost like glue in comparison, and if anything I find the rounded corners increase the amount of the phone surface in contact with your skin.

vbezhenar 7y ago
I used iPhone 4S for 4 years and did not drop it once. I dropped iPhone 8 first day, I have no idea how to hold it, so I bought case immediately. Now it's bearable. Another reason for using a case is a terrible camera protruding from the phone.
chongli 7y ago
What climate do you live in? I live in the north (Canada) and during the winter my skin gets very dry. The glass and metal of recent iPhones feels extremely slippery to my dry skin. I use a rubberized case which makes the phone much more grippable, at the cost of even more bulk. I really want a small, lightweight, grippable iPhone.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  This was in the UK so not very humid. Interesting that everyone's experience is so different. I just dried my hand and holding it flat with my XS placed on top, I can tilt it to about 15-20 degrees off vertical before it starts slipping off!

sbruno 7y ago

I hear you. I was like you for the longest time. I had an SE for 3~ years and I absolutely loved it. I researched and researched to find another phone with the exact same dimensions. Couldnt find anything. The thought of moving up to a bigger phone pained me. I eventually bought the iphone 8 about 6 months ago. And my god, it is just as good if not better. The size that scared me so much? Turns out I like it even more. The speed has been great, and I never knew how much I'd appreciate the larger screen. Point is, I know where you're coming from. But trust me, the iphone 8 size still feels relatively easy to hold (I can still comfortably hold it with one hand 100% of the time), and I have 0 regrets whatsoever about the upgrade.

fumar 7y ago
I agree the 8 and now the SE 2020 is a great size. I traded up to the 11 and found the size difference to be negligible. You can see for yourself in the dimensions section: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=9847#diff-*,*,* https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=9847#diff-*,*...

bluntfang 7y ago

>the rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed. Do people really not use a case with their phones? edit: Can anyone explain the downvotes? is this a bad question?

Tepix 7y ago
Never.
plorkyeran 7y ago
Why would I want to make my already too large phone even bigger by adding a case?
- bluntfang 7y ago
  because it breaks when you drop it? it provides a gripped texture so that it's easier to hold on to?
  - zapzupnz 7y ago
    If we're talking about iPhones, they don't necessarily break when you drop it, especially the last few generations. You might get an unsightly scuff on the back or edge, at worst the back glass might crack — but it will do so in such a way that the phone still won't shatter. In fact, my partner's iPhone and my previous one both broke in independent incidents when both were in cases. My new phone, I don't use a case, drop it regularly on asphalt, concrete, and it's even taken a dive into hot dishwashing water — and it's just fine. I know somebody will come along with a story about how theirs smashed into smithereens but, for my money, Apple builds their phones to last.
    - bluntfang 7y ago
      > at worst the back glass might crack this isn't broken??
      - 7y ago