7 ms·

I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. People still tell me to "tape" long after

I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. People still tell me to "tape" long after it was obvious that DVRs are better. It's simply muscle memory. Still not sure that this my next phone though, probably going to stick with the old school SE. I had asked work for an upgrade, got the giant XR, and after five days put it right back in the box and handed it back. Presumably someone else at work got it. But I didn't want to carry a brick everywhere. Honestly something the shape of the iPhone 1 would be fine -- a little thicker to put a better camera in and more battery, but doesn't require me to take a dual-wielding feat on my next level up. The new SE/2 seems workable -- if not what I want in terms of size. But I doubt I'm going to convince my work to buy me a new phone in this economy, and I'm happy with the old SE, so I guess this one is a pass. It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant.

elliekelly 7y ago
> It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. I’d like to shout this from the rooftops. All I want is an iPhone I can comfortably use with one hand whether it’s $400 or $1400
- ehsankia 7y ago
  To be fair, different people wanted different things. Some care about cheaper way inside the walled garden, some clanged into their SE for the small size, others keep their old iPhone for the headphone jack, and so on. To me, this has always been the issue with that ecosystem. If the one or two devices Apple makes fits your preferences, then that's awesome. Otherwise, you're shit outta luck. With Android, there's phones for everyone. Want a hardware keyboard? Check out Blackberry or F(x)tec. Want audio jack with a nice DAC, check out LG. Want stylus support? Check out Samsung Note or Moto Stylus. Gaming phone? Check out Razer or ROG. And the list goes on. There's a phone for everyone.
  - robin_reala 7y ago
    Well, apart from a decent Android phone with a small screen.
    - eggsome 7y ago
      https://www.ebay.com.au/i/173997105683 https://www.ebay.com.au/i/173997105683
    - vernon99 7y ago
      Check Palm Phone
      - CDSlice 7y ago
        With a terrible camera and horrendous battery life I’m not sure I’d call the Palm Phone “decent.” https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/palm-phone https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/palm-phone
        robin_reala 7y ago
        The review states Android 8.1. The current site says Android 8.1[1] The updates section of the FAQ only talks about Google Play updates.[2] That’s not good enough for me. [1] https://palm.com/pages/product#s-a7c5360d-c3db-4c91-bb73-8415f9c2e574 https://palm.com/pages/product#s-a7c5360d-c3db-4c91-bb73-841... [2] https://palmsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018185331-Updating-Your-Palm https://palmsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/3600181853...
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - 1996 7y ago
        no NFC, which I need for work no Qi wireless, which is really problematic with a 4h battery life. Still, I ordered got one to play with and evaluate the form factor, in the hope the next version will have both NFC and Qi
wlesieutre 7y ago
Not likely to be cheap, but the rumor for this fall's iPhone update is 4 phones, the "standard" model coming in small and medium, and the "pro" model in medium and large. Unfortunately what passes for the small size isn't as small as I'd like it to be, with the screen diagonal supposedly dropping from 5.8 in the iPhone 11 Pro down to 5.4" in the new base model. Overall size is probably similar to the iPhone SE (2020) except with the screen being much larger to cover the forehead and chin. At least it's an improvement over the current situation where all three iPhones 11 are physically bigger than the 8. Also bummed that the smallest size won't have an option for the best camera setup like this year's do. Ah well. We'll see for sure in September.
- derefr 7y ago
  It's strange that we have yet to see a phone (from anybody, not just Apple) that's the size of the old SE but with a full bezel-less display. I feel like so many people would want one. When you've got 100% screen-to-body ratio, you don't need the screen to actually be all that big, for it to be "big."
  - ksec 7y ago
    >It's strange that we have yet to see a phone (from anybody, not just Apple that's the size of the old SE but with a full bezel-less display. Simply because it cant be done yet. No Notch is small enough for an old SE Size iPhone with Face ID. The Screen would measure in exactly the same 4.7" except it would be 19.5:9 Ratio. I think we are still a few years away from that possibilities.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - derefr 7y ago
      Maybe that’s Apple’s reasoning for not doing it. On an Android phone, it could just be a fingerprint-reader-on-the-back device with no face unlock at all. (Heck, there’s gotta be a market for people who don’t care about front-facing cameras at all! They make laptops without cameras, don’t they?)
p1necone 7y ago
> "It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone" It's only cheap relative to Apples other phones, it's still outside of the range I'd consider reasonable. Although it seems the reason most people spend so much on phones is to get better cameras? Which I'm not particularly bothered about - maybe it's worth it for that.
- freepor 7y ago
  I've upgraded my iPhone five times, just recently to the SE, and each time it's been exclusively for the camera. Literally exclusively, since in many other respects the functionality is going in reverse (loss of home button, touch ID, headphone port, etc.) I swallow it all for a better camera.
  - justinator 7y ago
    You know you can get cameras now without a phone bundled with them.
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      The best camera is the one you have with you at all times, at the exact moment you need it.
      - fierarul 7y ago
        Yes, but no reason then to upgrade your phone to get a better camera at premium prices. How about using the camera phone if you are strolling down the street and want to make a Pulitzer photo and getting a better camera for those times you know you will be making photos like an anniversary, etc.
        fierarul 7y ago
        Sigh, this keeps getting downvoted... The thing is: look how much we love convenience! Instead of having two devices (a decent phone and a much better separate camera, both rarely updated) we prefer to constantly upgrade the phone to have a better camera. But a lot of the times you know you will be making photos in advance. If you go on holiday or you have an anniversary, etc. there's not that much planning required or bother to bring the proper separate (compact) camera. It's really amazing.
perl4ever 7y ago
"The new SE/2" Now I'm wondering if anyone ever made a Mac SE/30 run OS/2.
- relaxing 7y ago
  I don’t think so. OS/2 ran on x86 or PPC, but not 68k. There was a Mac86 board with an 8086 processor that fit the SE/30’s PDS slot, but I’m pretty sure OS/2 1.x required a 286. You might be able to install OS/2 on a Mac II with a Mac286 NuBus card, but it seems like a stretch. I can’t find evidence of anyone having done it.
  - relaxing 7y ago
    Ahaha! Found in Infoworld Vol. 10 Issue 1 (January 1988)... Headline: “RUNNING OS/2 ON THE MAC II: DO USERS CARE?” Choice quotes: “The Mac 286 has everything necessary to run OS/2, but we haven’t tested it” ... “If a guy’s already got a Mac II, the idea of running OS/2 is pretty ludicrous.”
danieldk 7y ago
It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. I liked small form factors more as well (though I am on an XS now). However, the ATP folks correctly pointed out that while many tech people classified the SE as 'the small iPhone' [1] and are now upset about the size of the SE 2020, for many non-tech people the SE is 'the cheap iPhone'. It is clear that most of the markets wanted bigger phones. And to them, the SE 2020 is a bigger phone than the old SE (thus good), while still being very price competitive in the iPhone lineup. [1] The question is if Apple really wanted to make a small phone or just something that fills a price range. And one way to reduce the production price of the iPhone SE was to reuse the iPhone 5s and now iPhone 8 production process. Also, it differentiates between cheaper/expensive models. In other words, the size may just be side-effect of what the SE happens to be based on.
grey-area 7y ago
It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. What most of the world wants is a quality cheap phone, and size isn't that relevant. This is especially true as the world enters a global recession.
- iso947 7y ago
  Yet no phone manufacturer is willing to target the niche, they just all chase the sheep.
millstone 7y ago
> It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant Smaller phones have smaller batteries, and less space for components like cameras, etc. So they look worse on paper, because on paper you can't feel how big it is. Thinness has been fetishized. Please make overall smallness or "hand feel" a top selling point!
lloeki 7y ago
> I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. Maybe it's better, maybe not. Maybe it's just different... but it's inconsistent. Wife has my old 6S, I had an 8 that got downgraded to a 7 because it disappeared (lost or stolen), and an iPad Pro. There's the double-click/force-press on the side to bring up the app switcher that I can live with, but I always always pull on the right side to bring up Control Center in the iPhones. It's infuriating, all the more that there is zero reason (technical, UX, UI) that Apple could not move the old devices to the new interaction model and make them consistent across all platforms, except: - don't alienate people with old habits and TouchID phones (but... still having the double-click work doesn't prevent the slide from the bottom to work too, as long as the slide from top right is implemented) - make a clear usage distinction between X/FaceID and non-X/TouchID phones (but... not devices! the TouchID iPads have it...) The net result is that people with TouchID phones just have an inconsistent experience, which is what makes it terrible at the end of the day.

elliekelly 7y ago

> It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. I’d like to shout this from the rooftops. All I want is an iPhone I can comfortably use with one hand whether it’s $400 or $1400

ehsankia 7y ago
To be fair, different people wanted different things. Some care about cheaper way inside the walled garden, some clanged into their SE for the small size, others keep their old iPhone for the headphone jack, and so on. To me, this has always been the issue with that ecosystem. If the one or two devices Apple makes fits your preferences, then that's awesome. Otherwise, you're shit outta luck. With Android, there's phones for everyone. Want a hardware keyboard? Check out Blackberry or F(x)tec. Want audio jack with a nice DAC, check out LG. Want stylus support? Check out Samsung Note or Moto Stylus. Gaming phone? Check out Razer or ROG. And the list goes on. There's a phone for everyone.
- robin_reala 7y ago
  Well, apart from a decent Android phone with a small screen.
  - eggsome 7y ago
    https://www.ebay.com.au/i/173997105683 https://www.ebay.com.au/i/173997105683
  - vernon99 7y ago
    Check Palm Phone
    - CDSlice 7y ago
      With a terrible camera and horrendous battery life I’m not sure I’d call the Palm Phone “decent.” https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/palm-phone https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/palm-phone
      - robin_reala 7y ago
        The review states Android 8.1. The current site says Android 8.1[1] The updates section of the FAQ only talks about Google Play updates.[2] That’s not good enough for me. [1] https://palm.com/pages/product#s-a7c5360d-c3db-4c91-bb73-8415f9c2e574 https://palm.com/pages/product#s-a7c5360d-c3db-4c91-bb73-841... [2] https://palmsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018185331-Updating-Your-Palm https://palmsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/3600181853...
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - 1996 7y ago
      no NFC, which I need for work no Qi wireless, which is really problematic with a 4h battery life. Still, I ordered got one to play with and evaluate the form factor, in the hope the next version will have both NFC and Qi

wlesieutre 7y ago

Not likely to be cheap, but the rumor for this fall's iPhone update is 4 phones, the "standard" model coming in small and medium, and the "pro" model in medium and large. Unfortunately what passes for the small size isn't as small as I'd like it to be, with the screen diagonal supposedly dropping from 5.8 in the iPhone 11 Pro down to 5.4" in the new base model. Overall size is probably similar to the iPhone SE (2020) except with the screen being much larger to cover the forehead and chin. At least it's an improvement over the current situation where all three iPhones 11 are physically bigger than the 8. Also bummed that the smallest size won't have an option for the best camera setup like this year's do. Ah well. We'll see for sure in September.

derefr 7y ago
It's strange that we have yet to see a phone (from anybody, not just Apple) that's the size of the old SE but with a full bezel-less display. I feel like so many people would want one. When you've got 100% screen-to-body ratio, you don't need the screen to actually be all that big, for it to be "big."
- ksec 7y ago
  >It's strange that we have yet to see a phone (from anybody, not just Apple that's the size of the old SE but with a full bezel-less display. Simply because it cant be done yet. No Notch is small enough for an old SE Size iPhone with Face ID. The Screen would measure in exactly the same 4.7" except it would be 19.5:9 Ratio. I think we are still a few years away from that possibilities.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - derefr 7y ago
    Maybe that’s Apple’s reasoning for not doing it. On an Android phone, it could just be a fingerprint-reader-on-the-back device with no face unlock at all. (Heck, there’s gotta be a market for people who don’t care about front-facing cameras at all! They make laptops without cameras, don’t they?)

p1necone 7y ago

> "It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone" It's only cheap relative to Apples other phones, it's still outside of the range I'd consider reasonable. Although it seems the reason most people spend so much on phones is to get better cameras? Which I'm not particularly bothered about - maybe it's worth it for that.

freepor 7y ago
I've upgraded my iPhone five times, just recently to the SE, and each time it's been exclusively for the camera. Literally exclusively, since in many other respects the functionality is going in reverse (loss of home button, touch ID, headphone port, etc.) I swallow it all for a better camera.
- justinator 7y ago
  You know you can get cameras now without a phone bundled with them.
  - zapzupnz 7y ago
    The best camera is the one you have with you at all times, at the exact moment you need it.
    - fierarul 7y ago
      Yes, but no reason then to upgrade your phone to get a better camera at premium prices. How about using the camera phone if you are strolling down the street and want to make a Pulitzer photo and getting a better camera for those times you know you will be making photos like an anniversary, etc.
      - fierarul 7y ago
        Sigh, this keeps getting downvoted... The thing is: look how much we love convenience! Instead of having two devices (a decent phone and a much better separate camera, both rarely updated) we prefer to constantly upgrade the phone to have a better camera. But a lot of the times you know you will be making photos in advance. If you go on holiday or you have an anniversary, etc. there's not that much planning required or bother to bring the proper separate (compact) camera. It's really amazing.

perl4ever 7y ago

"The new SE/2" Now I'm wondering if anyone ever made a Mac SE/30 run OS/2.

relaxing 7y ago
I don’t think so. OS/2 ran on x86 or PPC, but not 68k. There was a Mac86 board with an 8086 processor that fit the SE/30’s PDS slot, but I’m pretty sure OS/2 1.x required a 286. You might be able to install OS/2 on a Mac II with a Mac286 NuBus card, but it seems like a stretch. I can’t find evidence of anyone having done it.
- relaxing 7y ago
  Ahaha! Found in Infoworld Vol. 10 Issue 1 (January 1988)... Headline: “RUNNING OS/2 ON THE MAC II: DO USERS CARE?” Choice quotes: “The Mac 286 has everything necessary to run OS/2, but we haven’t tested it” ... “If a guy’s already got a Mac II, the idea of running OS/2 is pretty ludicrous.”

danieldk 7y ago

It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. I liked small form factors more as well (though I am on an XS now). However, the ATP folks correctly pointed out that while many tech people classified the SE as 'the small iPhone' [1] and are now upset about the size of the SE 2020, for many non-tech people the SE is 'the cheap iPhone'. It is clear that most of the markets wanted bigger phones. And to them, the SE 2020 is a bigger phone than the old SE (thus good), while still being very price competitive in the iPhone lineup. [1] The question is if Apple really wanted to make a small phone or just something that fills a price range. And one way to reduce the production price of the iPhone SE was to reuse the iPhone 5s and now iPhone 8 production process. Also, it differentiates between cheaper/expensive models. In other words, the size may just be side-effect of what the SE happens to be based on.

grey-area 7y ago

It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. What most of the world wants is a quality cheap phone, and size isn't that relevant. This is especially true as the world enters a global recession.

iso947 7y ago
Yet no phone manufacturer is willing to target the niche, they just all chase the sheep.

millstone 7y ago

> It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant Smaller phones have smaller batteries, and less space for components like cameras, etc. So they look worse on paper, because on paper you can't feel how big it is. Thinness has been fetishized. Please make overall smallness or "hand feel" a top selling point!

lloeki 7y ago

> I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. Maybe it's better, maybe not. Maybe it's just different... but it's inconsistent. Wife has my old 6S, I had an 8 that got downgraded to a 7 because it disappeared (lost or stolen), and an iPad Pro. There's the double-click/force-press on the side to bring up the app switcher that I can live with, but I always always pull on the right side to bring up Control Center in the iPhones. It's infuriating, all the more that there is zero reason (technical, UX, UI) that Apple could not move the old devices to the new interaction model and make them consistent across all platforms, except: - don't alienate people with old habits and TouchID phones (but... still having the double-click work doesn't prevent the slide from the bottom to work too, as long as the slide from top right is implemented) - make a clear usage distinction between X/FaceID and non-X/TouchID phones (but... not devices! the TouchID iPads have it...) The net result is that people with TouchID phones just have an inconsistent experience, which is what makes it terrible at the end of the day.