5 ms·

> Isn't this whole process of debate and individual responsibility basically irrevocably tainted in the age of mass misinformation? maybe so, but if you assume

> Isn't this whole process of debate and individual responsibility basically irrevocably tainted in the age of mass misinformation? maybe so, but if you assume this to be true, it's guaranteed.

pembrook 7y ago
The supposed "age of mass misinformation" isn't as big of a problem in Sweden as it is in the US. For one, test scores and reading levels indicate the average Swede is far better educated than the average American. Second, Sweden's media industry doesn't have competing private 24 hour cable news conglomerates fighting over eyeballs. In Europe, government financed media is more common, and thus there is not the same private incentives to drive fear and anger. Does Sweden has issues with misinformation? Of course (mostly around fear of immigrants). But they don't have anywhere near the problem we have in the US with misinformation.
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
You right, that may be too far. But I don't know if we assume that direct democracy works well in the face of extremely important, time critical, issues requiring a lot of specialized information. I still have faith in democracy finding decent leaders, but I don't know if the populace has the required ability to consider all the nuance of this pandemic we're facing and then making an educated, forward thinking, and in all probability incredibly painful decision. It's been clear from a lot of the arguments I've heard people neither have a good grasp on exponential growth and it's consequences in terms of containment, nor on the timeline or steps required to get this all under control.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  to be clear, I don't think america should have a national vote on quarantine or just let people do whatever they want. the current situation has degraded too far for that. what I refuse to accept is that the notion of individual responsibility and reasoned debate is over forever. maybe this is naive, but I do believe that it's more effective to convince people they should work towards a goal than to impose rules by force. I will concede that the US is missing many of the prerequisites to make this realistic. people not being able to reason about exponential growth is a failure of the education system, not an intrinsic limitation of the human mind. people distrust information/directions from the government because it has repeatedly shown itself to be untrustworthy. people are unwilling to sacrifice months of income because they were barely getting by before.
  - heretoo 7y ago
    > people not being able to reason about exponential growth is a failure of the education system I think it is a cultural failure, not an educational failure. Education is available, but people, both children and adults, make excuses like "when will I ever need mathematics in real life?"... [Answer: when your life depends on it] There is, or has been, a general lack of respect and inherent laziness toward intellectual pursuits. This is especially apparent when viewing the antagonism between science and politics.

> Isn't this whole process of debate and individual responsibility basically irrevocably tainted in the age of mass misinformation? maybe so, but if you assume this to be true, it's guaranteed.

pembrook 7y ago

The supposed "age of mass misinformation" isn't as big of a problem in Sweden as it is in the US. For one, test scores and reading levels indicate the average Swede is far better educated than the average American. Second, Sweden's media industry doesn't have competing private 24 hour cable news conglomerates fighting over eyeballs. In Europe, government financed media is more common, and thus there is not the same private incentives to drive fear and anger. Does Sweden has issues with misinformation? Of course (mostly around fear of immigrants). But they don't have anywhere near the problem we have in the US with misinformation.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

You right, that may be too far. But I don't know if we assume that direct democracy works well in the face of extremely important, time critical, issues requiring a lot of specialized information. I still have faith in democracy finding decent leaders, but I don't know if the populace has the required ability to consider all the nuance of this pandemic we're facing and then making an educated, forward thinking, and in all probability incredibly painful decision. It's been clear from a lot of the arguments I've heard people neither have a good grasp on exponential growth and it's consequences in terms of containment, nor on the timeline or steps required to get this all under control.

leetcrew 7y ago
to be clear, I don't think america should have a national vote on quarantine or just let people do whatever they want. the current situation has degraded too far for that. what I refuse to accept is that the notion of individual responsibility and reasoned debate is over forever. maybe this is naive, but I do believe that it's more effective to convince people they should work towards a goal than to impose rules by force. I will concede that the US is missing many of the prerequisites to make this realistic. people not being able to reason about exponential growth is a failure of the education system, not an intrinsic limitation of the human mind. people distrust information/directions from the government because it has repeatedly shown itself to be untrustworthy. people are unwilling to sacrifice months of income because they were barely getting by before.
- heretoo 7y ago
  > people not being able to reason about exponential growth is a failure of the education system I think it is a cultural failure, not an educational failure. Education is available, but people, both children and adults, make excuses like "when will I ever need mathematics in real life?"... [Answer: when your life depends on it] There is, or has been, a general lack of respect and inherent laziness toward intellectual pursuits. This is especially apparent when viewing the antagonism between science and politics.