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It's astounding to see the amount of aggressive misinformation being posted on every HN thread about Coronavirus - it's being downvoted fairly quickly but I hav

It's astounding to see the amount of aggressive misinformation being posted on every HN thread about Coronavirus - it's being downvoted fairly quickly but I have to wonder - is it possible we're getting brigaded in some kind of organized fashion? Or is this just the classic engineers thinking they know better in all fields, rather than just the one they're educated in?

malandrew 7y ago
> it's being downvoted fairly what's to say that downvoters aren't also misinformed in their decision to downvote?
triyambakam 7y ago
I don't think we can even call it misinformation, there is simply so much yet unknown that there are a lot of theories and ideas not yet validated. An invalidated idea is different than something known to be untrue
- p1necone 7y ago
  The specific comments I'm referring to have been downvoted and flagged into oblivion now so they're probably not visible unless you have the 'showdead' option in your user profile turned on (it's off by default). There is plenty of legitimate conversation going on too.
  - triyambakam 7y ago
    Ok thanks I did not know of that feature
- etrabroline 7y ago
  p1necone was referring to people saying stuff like "5G causes COVID-19" and "ventilators kill people because people who get put on one are more likely to die than those who aren't" unvalidated
  - p1necone 7y ago
    I saw the latter but not the former. I would be highly amused if someone tried to pull that one here - people couldn't even pretend to believe it (I would hope).
ddrt 7y ago
I think that you’re on to something in the latter part.
twomoretime 7y ago
What about those of us who are qualified in multiple disciplines? Do you know how students learn when they get graduate degrees? They read papers as primary and almost exclusive sources. Even coming from other backgrounds. And the nature of literature is such that after a time a capable person is able to gain mastery in this manner. Literature for COVID19 has been around since january. Some of us have been following it obsessively. And this isn't some esoteric theory that requires a deep understanding like mathematics or physics. You don't need breadth in such a field to drill down on a specific problem - you don't need to understand anything about c++ or Scala to write an algorithm in python, to put it in programmer terms. It's perfectly plausible that many of the autodidacts that tend to be attracted to HN can actually contribute meaningfully through comment. Edit: doctors and medical scientists also come here.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
DeonPenny 7y ago
How is it misinformation? It's mathematics and statistics. There isn't a field associated with it.
- p1necone 7y ago
  I'm not really sure what you're saying here, that you can't lie or be misleading using mathematics and statistics?
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  Not speaking for the parent, but the article is very incomplete information. The type of test matters a lot and must be mentioned. Fast antibody tests are apparently very unspecific. That is, they would come out positive for a wide range of coronaviruses (which are widespread in general). That doesn't mean that the person is infected with the SARS-CoV-2 strain. A followup would be needed to rule out false positives. It's disappointing that NPR doesn't report any of this nuance.
  - rumanator 7y ago
    I understand what you're saying but I have to say it sounds a lot like nitpicking. It's highly doubtful that among the 73% infected there is a relevant portion of false positives, and I stress that the key point is the relevância because the vírus spreads like wildfire on mass gatherings and US prisons are designer to keep the prison population gatherings en masse. Thus it doesn't make any diferença if the infection rate is 73% or 53% or 33%, because the nature of the problema makes it unavoidable that the infection rate will go from 0 to 100% in a few days.
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      I don't understand why you think this is nitpicking. If we test for the wrong thing, we will get garbage data about infection rates, disease severity, and death rates. If we test for the wrong thing, we will make garbage decisions about whom to isolate and how. You can see that the submitter tried to spin this article by adding "0 deaths so far", apparently trying to suggest that "the coronavirus" is not as deadly as we think. But for this determination it's very relevant which coronavirus we are talking about. I don't doubt that 73% of the inmates carry a coronavirus that causes the common cold. But that information doesn't tell us anything about the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. Since different coronaviruses have different rates of infectiousness, your conclusion of 100% in a few days is also only just a guess. If you test, you must test properly.
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
In the US at least, tech companies have been consistently ahead of the curve throughout the pandemic. They started closing offices while Fauci was telling people to go cruising! If this crisis hasn't shaken your faith in expertise, hasn't made you question the idea that experts have special insight the average smart person can't replicate, I don't think you've been paying attention.
- rumanator 7y ago
  > while Fauci was telling people to go cruising! Source?
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    On March 9, Fauci answered a press conference question about whether everyone should cancel their spring break plans. He indicated that young healthy people can go cruising if they want, although elderly or sick people shouldn't. On March 11, Twitter ordered all employees to work from home, in what I believe was the first complete office closure. (Other companies had closed specific Seattle offices earlier in the month, but I don't know if that counts.) Sources: https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2020/03/09/fauci-says-cruising-is-ok-if-you-are-healthy/#497eb7592d4d https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2020/03/09/fauci-say... https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/keeping-our-employees-and-partners-safe-during-coronavirus.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/keeping-o...
    - rumanator 7y ago
      > On March 9, Fauci answered a press conference question about whether everyone should cancel their spring break plans. He indicated that young healthy people can go cruising if they want, although elderly or sick people shouldn't. I feel that's a gross misrepresentation of the statement. Essentially his point was that high-risk population (read older people with “serious underlying conditions.”) should go to extreme steps to avoid contracting the disease, but those who are not then could go on with their lives. If that wasn't clear by itself, the very same article you posted includes this quote from Fauci stated in the prior day: > Yesterday, Fauci told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace, “Elderly with underlying conditions, heart disease, chronic lung disease, diabetes (should) not wait, but right now, to sort of take look at things that are at high risk, crowded places, getting on airplanes, and absolutely don’t get on a cruise ship.”
bdcravens 7y ago
> Or is this just the classic engineers thinking they know better in all fields, rather than just the one they're educated in? My first "real" job was tech support for a small regional ISP (these were the dial up days). Despite being in a fairly rural area and the frustration that could cause, without a doubt the worst customers I had to deal with were always doctors and lawyers.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

malandrew 7y ago

> it's being downvoted fairly what's to say that downvoters aren't also misinformed in their decision to downvote?

triyambakam 7y ago

I don't think we can even call it misinformation, there is simply so much yet unknown that there are a lot of theories and ideas not yet validated. An invalidated idea is different than something known to be untrue

p1necone 7y ago
The specific comments I'm referring to have been downvoted and flagged into oblivion now so they're probably not visible unless you have the 'showdead' option in your user profile turned on (it's off by default). There is plenty of legitimate conversation going on too.
- triyambakam 7y ago
  Ok thanks I did not know of that feature
etrabroline 7y ago
p1necone was referring to people saying stuff like "5G causes COVID-19" and "ventilators kill people because people who get put on one are more likely to die than those who aren't" unvalidated
- p1necone 7y ago
  I saw the latter but not the former. I would be highly amused if someone tried to pull that one here - people couldn't even pretend to believe it (I would hope).

ddrt 7y ago

I think that you’re on to something in the latter part.

twomoretime 7y ago

What about those of us who are qualified in multiple disciplines? Do you know how students learn when they get graduate degrees? They read papers as primary and almost exclusive sources. Even coming from other backgrounds. And the nature of literature is such that after a time a capable person is able to gain mastery in this manner. Literature for COVID19 has been around since january. Some of us have been following it obsessively. And this isn't some esoteric theory that requires a deep understanding like mathematics or physics. You don't need breadth in such a field to drill down on a specific problem - you don't need to understand anything about c++ or Scala to write an algorithm in python, to put it in programmer terms. It's perfectly plausible that many of the autodidacts that tend to be attracted to HN can actually contribute meaningfully through comment. Edit: doctors and medical scientists also come here.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

DeonPenny 7y ago

How is it misinformation? It's mathematics and statistics. There isn't a field associated with it.

p1necone 7y ago
I'm not really sure what you're saying here, that you can't lie or be misleading using mathematics and statistics?
tom_mellior 7y ago
Not speaking for the parent, but the article is very incomplete information. The type of test matters a lot and must be mentioned. Fast antibody tests are apparently very unspecific. That is, they would come out positive for a wide range of coronaviruses (which are widespread in general). That doesn't mean that the person is infected with the SARS-CoV-2 strain. A followup would be needed to rule out false positives. It's disappointing that NPR doesn't report any of this nuance.
- rumanator 7y ago
  I understand what you're saying but I have to say it sounds a lot like nitpicking. It's highly doubtful that among the 73% infected there is a relevant portion of false positives, and I stress that the key point is the relevância because the vírus spreads like wildfire on mass gatherings and US prisons are designer to keep the prison population gatherings en masse. Thus it doesn't make any diferença if the infection rate is 73% or 53% or 33%, because the nature of the problema makes it unavoidable that the infection rate will go from 0 to 100% in a few days.
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    I don't understand why you think this is nitpicking. If we test for the wrong thing, we will get garbage data about infection rates, disease severity, and death rates. If we test for the wrong thing, we will make garbage decisions about whom to isolate and how. You can see that the submitter tried to spin this article by adding "0 deaths so far", apparently trying to suggest that "the coronavirus" is not as deadly as we think. But for this determination it's very relevant which coronavirus we are talking about. I don't doubt that 73% of the inmates carry a coronavirus that causes the common cold. But that information doesn't tell us anything about the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. Since different coronaviruses have different rates of infectiousness, your conclusion of 100% in a few days is also only just a guess. If you test, you must test properly.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

In the US at least, tech companies have been consistently ahead of the curve throughout the pandemic. They started closing offices while Fauci was telling people to go cruising! If this crisis hasn't shaken your faith in expertise, hasn't made you question the idea that experts have special insight the average smart person can't replicate, I don't think you've been paying attention.

rumanator 7y ago
> while Fauci was telling people to go cruising! Source?
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  On March 9, Fauci answered a press conference question about whether everyone should cancel their spring break plans. He indicated that young healthy people can go cruising if they want, although elderly or sick people shouldn't. On March 11, Twitter ordered all employees to work from home, in what I believe was the first complete office closure. (Other companies had closed specific Seattle offices earlier in the month, but I don't know if that counts.) Sources: https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2020/03/09/fauci-says-cruising-is-ok-if-you-are-healthy/#497eb7592d4d https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2020/03/09/fauci-say... https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/keeping-our-employees-and-partners-safe-during-coronavirus.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/keeping-o...
  - rumanator 7y ago
    > On March 9, Fauci answered a press conference question about whether everyone should cancel their spring break plans. He indicated that young healthy people can go cruising if they want, although elderly or sick people shouldn't. I feel that's a gross misrepresentation of the statement. Essentially his point was that high-risk population (read older people with “serious underlying conditions.”) should go to extreme steps to avoid contracting the disease, but those who are not then could go on with their lives. If that wasn't clear by itself, the very same article you posted includes this quote from Fauci stated in the prior day: > Yesterday, Fauci told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace, “Elderly with underlying conditions, heart disease, chronic lung disease, diabetes (should) not wait, but right now, to sort of take look at things that are at high risk, crowded places, getting on airplanes, and absolutely don’t get on a cruise ship.”

bdcravens 7y ago

> Or is this just the classic engineers thinking they know better in all fields, rather than just the one they're educated in? My first "real" job was tech support for a small regional ISP (these were the dial up days). Despite being in a fairly rural area and the frustration that could cause, without a doubt the worst customers I had to deal with were always doctors and lawyers.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]