28 ms·

Bangkok Smoking Kid

197 points by kervokian 6y ago

sova 6y ago
Reminding the individual that their fate is in their hands is the way to go ! Even better when they can remind themselves!
gowld 6y ago
"Worked" means "people made phone calls". Title violate HN guidelines against inventing editorizalied titles.
- collyw 6y ago
  Surely that's a step further then not making the phone call.
- dang 6y ago
  Ok, we put the smoking kid in the title above.
ccleve 6y ago
Wow. Watch this ad. The article suggests that it works because it fits in with Thai culture. That's not it. I'm not Thai, and it had an impact on me. It's the story of a child saving an adult's life. That will have an impact in any culture.
- x2f10 6y ago
  I don't smoke nor am I Thai and it impacted me. The video made me think about habits I hold and how it might make me feel to see a child imitate them. Maybe it's because I see children as having endless potential and I as having already exhausted mine. Maybe it's because I see children as innocent and I as not.
- SilasX 6y ago
  I’ll find it if I have a chance but there was an /r/AskReddit about “what was a time you majorly impacted someone’s life without knowing it then”. One redditor told of the time that, when he was a kid, he decided to be goofy and “dress like Uncle”, which naturally included humorously puffing on his pretend “pipe”. That uncle then had a come-to-Jesus moment and finally quit, from the sight of his nephew seeing him that way.
IgorPartola 6y ago
Similar: if you tell an average person that their earbuds are turned up too loud and it’ll damage their hearing, they likely won’t do anything. Tell them it’s too loud and will damage their headphones, and they’ll turn down their volume for the rest of their lives.
- LeoTinnitus 6y ago
  I actually am one of those weirdos that has to use an equalizer for android because i can't stand how loud the lowest setting is. When you work in a relatively quiet office, you sometimes want to be pick up on what other people are saying without having to ask again.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - grawprog 6y ago
    I miss being able to use alsamixer on my rooted android 4 phone. It was by far the best way to control every aspect of sound output on an android phone. It gave you total control over everything, including overriding android's built in limits on various outputs. You could make your external speakers go nice and loud and bring your headphones down really quiet while still being audible. Android's sound management is exceedingly abysmal and just seems to get worse with each new version.
  - hestipod 6y ago
    I find the lowest settings on any phone I have tried too loud with any headphones or bluetooth device. I gave up trying. Even in a normal room its painfully loud. Per your username I do have tinnitus also and some minor hearing loss but not massive. No idea why this is so miserable.
    - LeoTinnitus 6y ago
      I currently use Music Volume EQ for android and it works. It's annoying sometimes cause I may need to restart every once in a while or reinstall it, but it allows me to turn the equalizer at the lowest level, turn it on, and then listen to that base "quiet" as the new lowest level.
assblaster 6y ago
It's amazing what can be done from an advertising standpoint to both get people interested in smoking, but also how to dissuade people from smoking. As a gay man, this anti-smoking ad campaign doesn't really appeal or apply to me, but I could see why it would be effective for heterosexuals: https://youtu.be/82x9pzHkHK4?t=16 https://youtu.be/82x9pzHkHK4?t=16 Edit: nevermind, this is satire.
- nayuki 6y ago
  Just remember: this is by The Onion.
- ndespres 6y ago
  That's a satirical news segment from The Onion. Not a real anti-smoking campaign.
tyleo 6y ago
Here is a link to the actual ad: https://youtu.be/g_YZ_PtMkw0 https://youtu.be/g_YZ_PtMkw0
runawaybottle 6y ago
The ad is very good, but it is also very patronizing. Most smokers know it’s bad, the problem is it’s an addiction. In a way, the ad is very honest, because saying ‘why don’t you just stop your addiction’ is a childish question.
- yumraj 6y ago
  > Most smokers know it’s bad, the problem is it’s an addiction. Yes it's addictive, but the first step towards quiting is accepting, or rather convincing yourself, that you need to quit now! This ad is a step towards that, making people realize that they need to quit. Once that threshold is crossed, rest follows at it's own pace.
  - oxymoran 6y ago
    That’s like telling someone that depressed to just realize they are depressed and to stop being depressed. Realizing that you need to quit is not some sort of magick. I think that almost all smokers know that they need to quit. Further the problem is staying quit. Smokers quit all the time but then relapse.
- goda90 6y ago
  It's not about telling them its bad. It's about twisting their perspective to maybe give them a kick to take action. The kids give them a pamphlet with a hotline. That's trying to get them resources to fight their addiction, not saying "why don’t you just stop your addiction".
- kodablah 6y ago
  > the problem is it’s an addiction Not exclusively in my experience. Sometimes it's about enjoyment, as is the case with many vices. For many, the consequences are known, and the trade off is consciously chosen (and maybe hedged, e.g. with lowered frequency).
  - pessimizer 6y ago
    That addiction and enjoyment are highly related should go without saying.
hpoe 6y ago
I can relate to this on a personal level. I've got 2 small children at home and as you may have guess the 'Rona has increased the stress levels of everyone in the household have been up. I noticed myself getting more frustrated and angry lately, one of the things that helped me really start turning it around was realizing I was setting an example for my kids, and I didn't want my sons to grow up getting angry and dealing with their problems by yelling and shouting. That thought really changed it from doing it for myself to doing it for my kids. It seems maybe if we thought more about our examples would be mirrored by the young people around us we'd set a better example.
- em-bee 6y ago
  a friend of mine told me he stopped smoking when one day his 7 year old told him "daddy, i don't want you to die"
IHLayman 6y ago
Pointing out hypocrisy is a common ad tactic. Reminded me strongly of this old classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXb7do9C-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXb7do9C-w I wouldn't claim it was the cleverest.
matz1 6y ago
Everything in life is a trade off. Most smokers know its bad but smoking is not 0 benefit, otherwise people won't smoke. They accept the risk and willing to trade the cost with the benefit.
- covidacct 6y ago
  > They accept the risk and willing to trade the cost with the benefit. This is only true at the very beginning of a smoker's habit. I know a lot of smokers. Exactly zero of them are "willing" to trade the cost for the benefit, for any meaningful definition of "willing". Addiction is hard. Many addicts rationalize, but few truly "choose".
  - matz1 6y ago
    Even for addict, its still a choice, they choose to continue smoking because its much easier than giving up.
    - darkerside 6y ago
      This is a little true, but it's not all true. Just like a drowning man grabs his rescuer uncontrollably, drowning them both, there are actions you may take that you can't fully control. Sometimes a choice is being made, but it isn't being made when you think it's being made.
    - munk-a 6y ago
      In our society when someone is highly intoxicated they cannot legally consent to sexual activities - they do have a choice still and are deciding it... we just understand that their thought process is being extremely heavily influenced by an outside source. For an addict it becomes not a choice, I'm not absolving every addict of everything ever but addiction really screws with your brain and if you have an addictive personality you can end up feeling compelled to do something even while fully accepting you'll feel guilty about it later. From a technical & mechanical perspective the person has made a choice, from an agency perspective the scenario is less clear and we generally understand that intoxication (either through physical addictions or obsessions) can lower the responsibility of the party involved... and there are a lot of examples toward and against this point in society[1] but I don't think we can clearly consider this a choice. 1. For instance drunk driving is considered in the opposite manner where choosing to drive drunk assumes a greater responsibility, and implies a greater agency, on the actor.
stickfigure 6y ago
While it does seem like a good ad, is there any data on whether it is actually effective? The title for World's Cleverest Anti-Smoking ad really should be given to whatever actually gets people to stop smoking.
- rkuykendall-com 6y ago
  RTFA > And calls to the hotline went up 62% in 1 month.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  it really comes down to immediate expense versus deferred, as in the health costs are deferred to the point that people don't feel the impact until it is upon them. so the only solution is to make the product cost so much that the immediate cost becomes the concern or just outright ban it. The US issue is too many states rely on the tax and penalty revenue associated with the products they may be loathe to give it up.
11235813213455 6y ago
Smoking also affect living beings around, and the environment (There are like 10 to 50 cigarettes butts every meter in the grass, on a city road side, here in France). So not just the smoker itself. It's not like consuming junk food/drinks, where you harm yourself mostly (there are also environmental issues though)
- collyw 6y ago
  Just to play devils advocate regarding passive smoking (not saying it not annoying for others, and the cigarette butts is just irresponsible - I would hope its not all smokers that do that, but clearly enough do that it's noticable). https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/12/12/study-finds-no-link-between-secondhand-smoke-and-cancer/#24bba5dd65d4 https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/12/12/study-f...
  - tyrust 6y ago
    >The study doesn't cover the many other ill effects of breathing somebody else's cigarette smoke, of course, which include asthma and possibly cardio-pulmonary disease. >Previous cancer studies have had mixed results, the researchers said, although the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still calculate secondhand smoke is responsible for 46,000 heart disease deaths and 3,400 deaths from cancer a year.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
> Smokers are fully aware of the health risks of smoking. But they ignore all warnings from friends, family and outsiders. Because the only voice they listen to is theirs. And it tells them things like, "Everything causes cancer these days" or "I can give up whenever I want. This is not the logic of most smokers I know (myself included). My reasoning, like that of most smokers I know, is: 1. I know how bad smoking is. 2. I know how hard quitting is. 3. I know the mental health effect of a quitting effort (whether successful or not) is challenging and unpredictable. 4. I have a lot of other challenges in life that incentivize putting off #2-3 until such a time as I think I can weather the storm and have a high chance of success. Most smokers try and fail to quit multiple times before they succeed. It's a strong addiction, with a lot of negative emotional associations.
- chrisandchips 6y ago
  You really should read allen carr's easy way to quit smoking. I was a smoker for a long time and would say exactly what you've said here. The main pull for me was always the social smoking as well. The tl;dr is that, for a lot of different reasons that aren't your fault, you've become convinced that quitting smoking is a lot harder than it actually is. If you have any feeling like you would like to quit (or that you think its gross) then go grab the PDF and give it a shot. I dropped the habit two years ago and have never had a slight urge to try again. The text is a little cringeworthy, but if you can look past it you will see the benefits
  - fabiandesimone 6y ago
    That book is magical. Made me quit cold turkey after 10 years smoking one pack a day.
  - exhilaration 6y ago
    I see the PDF is posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/QuittingJUUL/comments/d10l69/full_pdf_of_allen_carrs_easy_way_to_stop_smoking/ https://www.reddit.com/r/QuittingJUUL/comments/d10l69/full_p... In a subreddit called "QuittingJUUL", none the less! An entirely new generation is getting to learn about Carr's book.
kozak 6y ago
I remember that when I was a teenager, every male around me (both adults and kids of my age and older) smoked. But I never tried, not even once. My reasoning was the following: if I try it and I don't like it, then I would regret trying (because by definition of "don't like it", it will be unpleasant). But if I try it and I like it (which will mean that I will feel that this is good and pleasant), then I'll just become one of them - one of those who can't live without cigarettes. So thus I never tried.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Good for you, but I don't think this is necessarily an example that applies in the general case. I was just about the last member of my cohort to start smoking, and nearly unique in not having done so until I was actually old enough to legally buy my own. But I did start.
- zeta0134 6y ago
  I think growing up I feared the social stigma more than anything else. As I've become older though, and heard accounts from some of my friends who tried harder things... I realized what I don't like is the idea of an artificial high. I gain joy from the simple pleasure of taking a walk through nature, or listening to music with pleasant harmonies. Wouldn't an artificial high, being more powerful, work to make those things less joyous in comparison? Whether it's true or not, my fear of that possibility has steered me clear of the stuff for good. I don't want to depend on some substance to enjoy life, I would rather just enjoy what's already around me.
nigrioid 6y ago
I thought it was this for a minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4c_wI6kQyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4c_wI6kQyE
riantogo 6y ago
This has some parallels to the psychological effect that I don’t recollect the name for. It goes something like this: Tell a kid to clean their room and they will come up several excuses to not do it, “I’m busy”, “I will do to tomorrow” etc. So you ask the kid, “given a choice between cleaning a room and not cleaning a room, what would be the reasons why a kid will choose to clean it?”. This triggers the positive reasons in their head to actually do it. Use responsibly.
oxymoran 6y ago
Never smokers just don’t understand. It’s not that you don’t know that it’s bad for you(duh) or that you don’t want to quit. It is because it really is that hard to quit. For me, suppressing the desire to smoke felt like the worst restless leg syndrome but it wasn’t in my legs, it was deep down in the core of my being. Plus I genuinely enjoyed it. It took me over 10 years, dozens of attempts, and having a child(extra incentive) to finally overcome cigarettes. And I don’t think I would have made it without the help of vaping which, yes, I also eventually quit. I made my own flavorless juice and titrated the nicotine down to zero which made it real easy to stop vaping at that point.
- ilugaslifk 6y ago
  Regarding other things "never smokers" may not understand: Before I started smoking (relatively late in life), I didn't really grasp that smoking is non-trivially immediately psychoactive. Like I thought it was something that you did just to do, and then it quietly wormed some sort of hook into your brain that made you feel bad if you stopped, but the whole thing happened entirely "subconsciously". Maybe I was just especially retarded, and most people properly understand this.
- fiblye 6y ago
  We can understand. I grew up in a household where chips, soda, and ice cream were dinner. I've been at points in my life where easily 70% of my daily calories were sugar. My body hurt and I felt like shit, but those moments where I took that first bite of ice cream in an hour were bliss. Quitting it was fucking painful. I was tired, irritable, and had this constant feeling in the back of my throat of just needing some sweets. I managed to go a whole year without any sweets at all an finally forgot the feeling and managed to lose a bunch of weight, then someone gave me a box of chocolate and I've been trying to quit (and failing) for two years. Whenever I make some progress on quitting, someone offers me some sweets and the cycle starts all over again. Just looking at the obesity problem in the world, I think loads of people are suffering from an equally debilitating addiction, but they're not targeted by ad campaigns asking them to quit, and they've never tried to do so. People who've tried to lose weight will often say it's incredibly tough, and a lot of experiences seem to align with what smokers describe.
3minus1 6y ago
I like the idea behind this article, but a 62% increase in calls to phone hotline after an ad campaign doesn't sound that amazing to me. Ads are pretty effective in general; even just reminding someone that a hotline exists to quit smoking would cause an increase.
mellow2020 6y ago
> "If it's so bad, why are you smoking?" "I didn't say 'it's bad', I said 'it's bad for you'. Just because you're a little kid doesn't mean you get to move goal posts, so try again." edit: that's my answer. If you say I must be impressed because those other people are, then you're wrong. Smoking is bad for kids an it's bad for adults, adults get to make choices that harm them, ask parents for details, case closed.
artfulhippo 6y ago
Smoking is clearly not healthy. But I wish the benefits of nicotine were more widely known and discussed. I smoked from age 16 to 23 and now I'm 27. I've had cravings for the stimulation that I miss for the last 4 years. I expect to have them for the rest of my life. As a teenager, smoking was mysterious and therefore attractive to me because everyone seemed to agree that it's bad. The benefits were a secret that I had to discover through first-hand experience. I don't regret quitting smoking and I'm not planning on starting up again, but the "smoking is bad" messaging is not as clear-cut as it seems.
- Causality1 6y ago
  It's just like every other stimulant, be it cocaine or methamphetamine or caffeine or ecstasy. They all come at a cost, and if they're mild enough for you to use regularly you build up a tolerance and need it just to be at the same level you were without it.
- stingraycharles 6y ago
  I seem to be missing the point. What are the benefits of nicotine in your story, exactly?
  - artfulhippo 6y ago
    Stimulation. Same reason people drink coffee and tea. Except for me, nicotine is way more effective.
- projektfu 6y ago
  You seem to have tackled the "little monster" of nicotene-directed urges but not the "big monster" of urges that come from the programming in your brain. You definitely should read the book mentioned in the other comment, The Easy Way to Stop Smoking, by Allen Carr. Time to take down the big monster.
  - artfulhippo 6y ago
    I'm sorry, this book really doesn't speak to the reasons why I smoked (cognitive stimulation, social connection, a reason to take a break). I'm glad it's help other people but it feels out-of-touch in exactly the way that I highlighted in my comment above: it demonizes cigarettes, describing the harms of nicotine without the benefits. In many ways, nicotine is similar to amphetamines or caffeine. Adderall isn't healthy but people take it for a reason. It doesn't help anyone to pretend like it's totally irrational to consume addictive stimulants.
jcampbell1 6y ago
My favorite teenager behavior modification ad campaign is the Australian anti-speeding campaign with the pinky curl. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2nvAFOk7x0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2nvAFOk7x0 The subtext is "you are speeding because you have a small penis".
- watwut 6y ago
  Shaming guys with small penises and feminity simultaneously ... even as issue at hand has nothing to do with penis size ... and nothing to do with feminine women either ...
qwerty456127 6y ago
Whoever smokes and wouldn't mind quitting if it wasn't hard I recommend to consider the following (based on my experience and understanding, trusting me is your own risk): 1. switch 100% to vaping (try a nicotine-heavy liquid if you don't enjoy what you try initially), get rid of cigarettes. Make sure to find a flavor you enjoy and try different ones every now and then. 2. you'll find your health improving soon: vaping is not 100% safe but usually a much healthier choice than cigs because no tar, heavy metals, formaldehyde etc. I bet your doctor will tell you "good job!" once they notice the changes in your health. 3. quitting is going to be much easier than you imagine at this moment. I just stopped one day and had no problem, I even enjoyed the mildly weird feeling during 2 days (but gained a couple of extra pounds). Perhaps this depends on the kind of the vaping liquid you use, I only tried one kind. Don't try butter/caramel-flavoured liquids or THC oils - these are dangerous.
- ohhnoodont 6y ago
  My doctor said exactly this when I switched to entirely to vaping. It's a shame how much momentum there is behind banning the sale of vape products when the positive health effects are pretty clear.
  - MaximumYComb 6y ago
    The downside of vaping is that the flavoured vape products are being marketed at teenagers. IIRC smoking was at a very low rate for youth after decades of improvements and then vaping has seen nicotine use rise in this demographic.
    - qwerty456127 6y ago
      Marketing addictive substances should just be outlawed. Marketing substances that are both addictive and scientifically proven to harm children/adolescents development specifically targeting teens should be outlawed absolutely - everybody participating in that should be punished, e.g. the way it works with child porn. At the same time people who choose to buy and use the substances without being advertised to should be allowed to.
lazylizard 6y ago
I took a few weeks to stop smoking reguarly(20 in 2-3 days) , only when i was drinking. Then stopped totally when we stopped meeting for drinks with the covid19 "stay home" restrictions. I think i still want to smoke when out for drinks. Like, what do you do? Just gulp all the beer in 1 go and leave? The smoking is good for pauses in between the alcohol.. But temporarily stopping is no hardship.

197 points by kervokian 6y ago

sova 6y ago

Reminding the individual that their fate is in their hands is the way to go ! Even better when they can remind themselves!

gowld 6y ago

"Worked" means "people made phone calls". Title violate HN guidelines against inventing editorizalied titles.

collyw 6y ago
Surely that's a step further then not making the phone call.
dang 6y ago
Ok, we put the smoking kid in the title above.

ccleve 6y ago

Wow. Watch this ad. The article suggests that it works because it fits in with Thai culture. That's not it. I'm not Thai, and it had an impact on me. It's the story of a child saving an adult's life. That will have an impact in any culture.

x2f10 6y ago
I don't smoke nor am I Thai and it impacted me. The video made me think about habits I hold and how it might make me feel to see a child imitate them. Maybe it's because I see children as having endless potential and I as having already exhausted mine. Maybe it's because I see children as innocent and I as not.
SilasX 6y ago
I’ll find it if I have a chance but there was an /r/AskReddit about “what was a time you majorly impacted someone’s life without knowing it then”. One redditor told of the time that, when he was a kid, he decided to be goofy and “dress like Uncle”, which naturally included humorously puffing on his pretend “pipe”. That uncle then had a come-to-Jesus moment and finally quit, from the sight of his nephew seeing him that way.

IgorPartola 6y ago

Similar: if you tell an average person that their earbuds are turned up too loud and it’ll damage their hearing, they likely won’t do anything. Tell them it’s too loud and will damage their headphones, and they’ll turn down their volume for the rest of their lives.

LeoTinnitus 6y ago
I actually am one of those weirdos that has to use an equalizer for android because i can't stand how loud the lowest setting is. When you work in a relatively quiet office, you sometimes want to be pick up on what other people are saying without having to ask again.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- grawprog 6y ago
  I miss being able to use alsamixer on my rooted android 4 phone. It was by far the best way to control every aspect of sound output on an android phone. It gave you total control over everything, including overriding android's built in limits on various outputs. You could make your external speakers go nice and loud and bring your headphones down really quiet while still being audible. Android's sound management is exceedingly abysmal and just seems to get worse with each new version.
- hestipod 6y ago
  I find the lowest settings on any phone I have tried too loud with any headphones or bluetooth device. I gave up trying. Even in a normal room its painfully loud. Per your username I do have tinnitus also and some minor hearing loss but not massive. No idea why this is so miserable.
  - LeoTinnitus 6y ago
    I currently use Music Volume EQ for android and it works. It's annoying sometimes cause I may need to restart every once in a while or reinstall it, but it allows me to turn the equalizer at the lowest level, turn it on, and then listen to that base "quiet" as the new lowest level.

assblaster 6y ago

It's amazing what can be done from an advertising standpoint to both get people interested in smoking, but also how to dissuade people from smoking. As a gay man, this anti-smoking ad campaign doesn't really appeal or apply to me, but I could see why it would be effective for heterosexuals: https://youtu.be/82x9pzHkHK4?t=16 https://youtu.be/82x9pzHkHK4?t=16 Edit: nevermind, this is satire.

nayuki 6y ago
Just remember: this is by The Onion.
ndespres 6y ago
That's a satirical news segment from The Onion. Not a real anti-smoking campaign.

tyleo 6y ago

Here is a link to the actual ad: https://youtu.be/g_YZ_PtMkw0 https://youtu.be/g_YZ_PtMkw0

runawaybottle 6y ago

The ad is very good, but it is also very patronizing. Most smokers know it’s bad, the problem is it’s an addiction. In a way, the ad is very honest, because saying ‘why don’t you just stop your addiction’ is a childish question.

yumraj 6y ago
> Most smokers know it’s bad, the problem is it’s an addiction. Yes it's addictive, but the first step towards quiting is accepting, or rather convincing yourself, that you need to quit now! This ad is a step towards that, making people realize that they need to quit. Once that threshold is crossed, rest follows at it's own pace.
- oxymoran 6y ago
  That’s like telling someone that depressed to just realize they are depressed and to stop being depressed. Realizing that you need to quit is not some sort of magick. I think that almost all smokers know that they need to quit. Further the problem is staying quit. Smokers quit all the time but then relapse.
goda90 6y ago
It's not about telling them its bad. It's about twisting their perspective to maybe give them a kick to take action. The kids give them a pamphlet with a hotline. That's trying to get them resources to fight their addiction, not saying "why don’t you just stop your addiction".
kodablah 6y ago
> the problem is it’s an addiction Not exclusively in my experience. Sometimes it's about enjoyment, as is the case with many vices. For many, the consequences are known, and the trade off is consciously chosen (and maybe hedged, e.g. with lowered frequency).
- pessimizer 6y ago
  That addiction and enjoyment are highly related should go without saying.

hpoe 6y ago

I can relate to this on a personal level. I've got 2 small children at home and as you may have guess the 'Rona has increased the stress levels of everyone in the household have been up. I noticed myself getting more frustrated and angry lately, one of the things that helped me really start turning it around was realizing I was setting an example for my kids, and I didn't want my sons to grow up getting angry and dealing with their problems by yelling and shouting. That thought really changed it from doing it for myself to doing it for my kids. It seems maybe if we thought more about our examples would be mirrored by the young people around us we'd set a better example.

em-bee 6y ago
a friend of mine told me he stopped smoking when one day his 7 year old told him "daddy, i don't want you to die"

IHLayman 6y ago

Pointing out hypocrisy is a common ad tactic. Reminded me strongly of this old classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXb7do9C-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXb7do9C-w I wouldn't claim it was the cleverest.

matz1 6y ago

Everything in life is a trade off. Most smokers know its bad but smoking is not 0 benefit, otherwise people won't smoke. They accept the risk and willing to trade the cost with the benefit.

covidacct 6y ago
> They accept the risk and willing to trade the cost with the benefit. This is only true at the very beginning of a smoker's habit. I know a lot of smokers. Exactly zero of them are "willing" to trade the cost for the benefit, for any meaningful definition of "willing". Addiction is hard. Many addicts rationalize, but few truly "choose".
- matz1 6y ago
  Even for addict, its still a choice, they choose to continue smoking because its much easier than giving up.
  - darkerside 6y ago
    This is a little true, but it's not all true. Just like a drowning man grabs his rescuer uncontrollably, drowning them both, there are actions you may take that you can't fully control. Sometimes a choice is being made, but it isn't being made when you think it's being made.
  - munk-a 6y ago
    In our society when someone is highly intoxicated they cannot legally consent to sexual activities - they do have a choice still and are deciding it... we just understand that their thought process is being extremely heavily influenced by an outside source. For an addict it becomes not a choice, I'm not absolving every addict of everything ever but addiction really screws with your brain and if you have an addictive personality you can end up feeling compelled to do something even while fully accepting you'll feel guilty about it later. From a technical & mechanical perspective the person has made a choice, from an agency perspective the scenario is less clear and we generally understand that intoxication (either through physical addictions or obsessions) can lower the responsibility of the party involved... and there are a lot of examples toward and against this point in society[1] but I don't think we can clearly consider this a choice. 1. For instance drunk driving is considered in the opposite manner where choosing to drive drunk assumes a greater responsibility, and implies a greater agency, on the actor.

stickfigure 6y ago

While it does seem like a good ad, is there any data on whether it is actually effective? The title for World's Cleverest Anti-Smoking ad really should be given to whatever actually gets people to stop smoking.

rkuykendall-com 6y ago
RTFA > And calls to the hotline went up 62% in 1 month.
Shivetya 6y ago
it really comes down to immediate expense versus deferred, as in the health costs are deferred to the point that people don't feel the impact until it is upon them. so the only solution is to make the product cost so much that the immediate cost becomes the concern or just outright ban it. The US issue is too many states rely on the tax and penalty revenue associated with the products they may be loathe to give it up.

11235813213455 6y ago

Smoking also affect living beings around, and the environment (There are like 10 to 50 cigarettes butts every meter in the grass, on a city road side, here in France). So not just the smoker itself. It's not like consuming junk food/drinks, where you harm yourself mostly (there are also environmental issues though)

collyw 6y ago
Just to play devils advocate regarding passive smoking (not saying it not annoying for others, and the cigarette butts is just irresponsible - I would hope its not all smokers that do that, but clearly enough do that it's noticable). https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/12/12/study-finds-no-link-between-secondhand-smoke-and-cancer/#24bba5dd65d4 https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/12/12/study-f...
- tyrust 6y ago
  >The study doesn't cover the many other ill effects of breathing somebody else's cigarette smoke, of course, which include asthma and possibly cardio-pulmonary disease. >Previous cancer studies have had mixed results, the researchers said, although the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still calculate secondhand smoke is responsible for 46,000 heart disease deaths and 3,400 deaths from cancer a year.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

> Smokers are fully aware of the health risks of smoking. But they ignore all warnings from friends, family and outsiders. Because the only voice they listen to is theirs. And it tells them things like, "Everything causes cancer these days" or "I can give up whenever I want. This is not the logic of most smokers I know (myself included). My reasoning, like that of most smokers I know, is: 1. I know how bad smoking is. 2. I know how hard quitting is. 3. I know the mental health effect of a quitting effort (whether successful or not) is challenging and unpredictable. 4. I have a lot of other challenges in life that incentivize putting off #2-3 until such a time as I think I can weather the storm and have a high chance of success. Most smokers try and fail to quit multiple times before they succeed. It's a strong addiction, with a lot of negative emotional associations.

chrisandchips 6y ago
You really should read allen carr's easy way to quit smoking. I was a smoker for a long time and would say exactly what you've said here. The main pull for me was always the social smoking as well. The tl;dr is that, for a lot of different reasons that aren't your fault, you've become convinced that quitting smoking is a lot harder than it actually is. If you have any feeling like you would like to quit (or that you think its gross) then go grab the PDF and give it a shot. I dropped the habit two years ago and have never had a slight urge to try again. The text is a little cringeworthy, but if you can look past it you will see the benefits
- fabiandesimone 6y ago
  That book is magical. Made me quit cold turkey after 10 years smoking one pack a day.
- exhilaration 6y ago
  I see the PDF is posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/QuittingJUUL/comments/d10l69/full_pdf_of_allen_carrs_easy_way_to_stop_smoking/ https://www.reddit.com/r/QuittingJUUL/comments/d10l69/full_p... In a subreddit called "QuittingJUUL", none the less! An entirely new generation is getting to learn about Carr's book.

kozak 6y ago

I remember that when I was a teenager, every male around me (both adults and kids of my age and older) smoked. But I never tried, not even once. My reasoning was the following: if I try it and I don't like it, then I would regret trying (because by definition of "don't like it", it will be unpleasant). But if I try it and I like it (which will mean that I will feel that this is good and pleasant), then I'll just become one of them - one of those who can't live without cigarettes. So thus I never tried.

throwanem 6y ago
Good for you, but I don't think this is necessarily an example that applies in the general case. I was just about the last member of my cohort to start smoking, and nearly unique in not having done so until I was actually old enough to legally buy my own. But I did start.
zeta0134 6y ago
I think growing up I feared the social stigma more than anything else. As I've become older though, and heard accounts from some of my friends who tried harder things... I realized what I don't like is the idea of an artificial high. I gain joy from the simple pleasure of taking a walk through nature, or listening to music with pleasant harmonies. Wouldn't an artificial high, being more powerful, work to make those things less joyous in comparison? Whether it's true or not, my fear of that possibility has steered me clear of the stuff for good. I don't want to depend on some substance to enjoy life, I would rather just enjoy what's already around me.

nigrioid 6y ago

I thought it was this for a minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4c_wI6kQyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4c_wI6kQyE

riantogo 6y ago

This has some parallels to the psychological effect that I don’t recollect the name for. It goes something like this: Tell a kid to clean their room and they will come up several excuses to not do it, “I’m busy”, “I will do to tomorrow” etc. So you ask the kid, “given a choice between cleaning a room and not cleaning a room, what would be the reasons why a kid will choose to clean it?”. This triggers the positive reasons in their head to actually do it. Use responsibly.

oxymoran 6y ago

Never smokers just don’t understand. It’s not that you don’t know that it’s bad for you(duh) or that you don’t want to quit. It is because it really is that hard to quit. For me, suppressing the desire to smoke felt like the worst restless leg syndrome but it wasn’t in my legs, it was deep down in the core of my being. Plus I genuinely enjoyed it. It took me over 10 years, dozens of attempts, and having a child(extra incentive) to finally overcome cigarettes. And I don’t think I would have made it without the help of vaping which, yes, I also eventually quit. I made my own flavorless juice and titrated the nicotine down to zero which made it real easy to stop vaping at that point.

ilugaslifk 6y ago
Regarding other things "never smokers" may not understand: Before I started smoking (relatively late in life), I didn't really grasp that smoking is non-trivially immediately psychoactive. Like I thought it was something that you did just to do, and then it quietly wormed some sort of hook into your brain that made you feel bad if you stopped, but the whole thing happened entirely "subconsciously". Maybe I was just especially retarded, and most people properly understand this.
fiblye 6y ago
We can understand. I grew up in a household where chips, soda, and ice cream were dinner. I've been at points in my life where easily 70% of my daily calories were sugar. My body hurt and I felt like shit, but those moments where I took that first bite of ice cream in an hour were bliss. Quitting it was fucking painful. I was tired, irritable, and had this constant feeling in the back of my throat of just needing some sweets. I managed to go a whole year without any sweets at all an finally forgot the feeling and managed to lose a bunch of weight, then someone gave me a box of chocolate and I've been trying to quit (and failing) for two years. Whenever I make some progress on quitting, someone offers me some sweets and the cycle starts all over again. Just looking at the obesity problem in the world, I think loads of people are suffering from an equally debilitating addiction, but they're not targeted by ad campaigns asking them to quit, and they've never tried to do so. People who've tried to lose weight will often say it's incredibly tough, and a lot of experiences seem to align with what smokers describe.

3minus1 6y ago

I like the idea behind this article, but a 62% increase in calls to phone hotline after an ad campaign doesn't sound that amazing to me. Ads are pretty effective in general; even just reminding someone that a hotline exists to quit smoking would cause an increase.

mellow2020 6y ago

> "If it's so bad, why are you smoking?" "I didn't say 'it's bad', I said 'it's bad for you'. Just because you're a little kid doesn't mean you get to move goal posts, so try again." edit: that's my answer. If you say I must be impressed because those other people are, then you're wrong. Smoking is bad for kids an it's bad for adults, adults get to make choices that harm them, ask parents for details, case closed.

artfulhippo 6y ago

Smoking is clearly not healthy. But I wish the benefits of nicotine were more widely known and discussed. I smoked from age 16 to 23 and now I'm 27. I've had cravings for the stimulation that I miss for the last 4 years. I expect to have them for the rest of my life. As a teenager, smoking was mysterious and therefore attractive to me because everyone seemed to agree that it's bad. The benefits were a secret that I had to discover through first-hand experience. I don't regret quitting smoking and I'm not planning on starting up again, but the "smoking is bad" messaging is not as clear-cut as it seems.

Causality1 6y ago
It's just like every other stimulant, be it cocaine or methamphetamine or caffeine or ecstasy. They all come at a cost, and if they're mild enough for you to use regularly you build up a tolerance and need it just to be at the same level you were without it.
stingraycharles 6y ago
I seem to be missing the point. What are the benefits of nicotine in your story, exactly?
- artfulhippo 6y ago
  Stimulation. Same reason people drink coffee and tea. Except for me, nicotine is way more effective.
projektfu 6y ago
You seem to have tackled the "little monster" of nicotene-directed urges but not the "big monster" of urges that come from the programming in your brain. You definitely should read the book mentioned in the other comment, The Easy Way to Stop Smoking, by Allen Carr. Time to take down the big monster.
- artfulhippo 6y ago
  I'm sorry, this book really doesn't speak to the reasons why I smoked (cognitive stimulation, social connection, a reason to take a break). I'm glad it's help other people but it feels out-of-touch in exactly the way that I highlighted in my comment above: it demonizes cigarettes, describing the harms of nicotine without the benefits. In many ways, nicotine is similar to amphetamines or caffeine. Adderall isn't healthy but people take it for a reason. It doesn't help anyone to pretend like it's totally irrational to consume addictive stimulants.

jcampbell1 6y ago

My favorite teenager behavior modification ad campaign is the Australian anti-speeding campaign with the pinky curl. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2nvAFOk7x0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2nvAFOk7x0 The subtext is "you are speeding because you have a small penis".

watwut 6y ago
Shaming guys with small penises and feminity simultaneously ... even as issue at hand has nothing to do with penis size ... and nothing to do with feminine women either ...

qwerty456127 6y ago

Whoever smokes and wouldn't mind quitting if it wasn't hard I recommend to consider the following (based on my experience and understanding, trusting me is your own risk): 1. switch 100% to vaping (try a nicotine-heavy liquid if you don't enjoy what you try initially), get rid of cigarettes. Make sure to find a flavor you enjoy and try different ones every now and then. 2. you'll find your health improving soon: vaping is not 100% safe but usually a much healthier choice than cigs because no tar, heavy metals, formaldehyde etc. I bet your doctor will tell you "good job!" once they notice the changes in your health. 3. quitting is going to be much easier than you imagine at this moment. I just stopped one day and had no problem, I even enjoyed the mildly weird feeling during 2 days (but gained a couple of extra pounds). Perhaps this depends on the kind of the vaping liquid you use, I only tried one kind. Don't try butter/caramel-flavoured liquids or THC oils - these are dangerous.

ohhnoodont 6y ago
My doctor said exactly this when I switched to entirely to vaping. It's a shame how much momentum there is behind banning the sale of vape products when the positive health effects are pretty clear.
- MaximumYComb 6y ago
  The downside of vaping is that the flavoured vape products are being marketed at teenagers. IIRC smoking was at a very low rate for youth after decades of improvements and then vaping has seen nicotine use rise in this demographic.
  - qwerty456127 6y ago
    Marketing addictive substances should just be outlawed. Marketing substances that are both addictive and scientifically proven to harm children/adolescents development specifically targeting teens should be outlawed absolutely - everybody participating in that should be punished, e.g. the way it works with child porn. At the same time people who choose to buy and use the substances without being advertised to should be allowed to.

lazylizard 6y ago

I took a few weeks to stop smoking reguarly(20 in 2-3 days) , only when i was drinking. Then stopped totally when we stopped meeting for drinks with the covid19 "stay home" restrictions. I think i still want to smoke when out for drinks. Like, what do you do? Just gulp all the beer in 1 go and leave? The smoking is good for pauses in between the alcohol.. But temporarily stopping is no hardship.