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> "I was openly accused of damaging my country's reputation by talking about corruption," I have seen this at a smaller scale in several companies. Human resou

> "I was openly accused of damaging my country's reputation by talking about corruption," I have seen this at a smaller scale in several companies. Human resources will negate any wrong doing of abusive upper management to avoid "damaging the company". As, many good employees leave the company, lack motivation or passive-aggressively sabotage projects the company suffers massive damage, losses opportunities and money. The people protecting corruption or abuse are not all evil, none of them is in moral high-ground, thou. But, it is the way companies are designed to reward personal loyalty to upper-management what makes the so prone to corruption and inefficiencies. Design a company, or a country, that rewards loyalty to the company - not to the managers or rulers - and it will be extremely successful. Meanwhile we are stuck in a situation that even assassination takes a long time to untangle and have an effect. It could be worse, at least we know what happened and we are free to talk about it. Improvement takes one step at at time.

jimbob45 7y ago
I'm not sure what you're arguing. Rewarding loyalty to the company typically takes the form of profit sharing, wherein employees would be incentivized to ignore management abuse (for instance) because they know raising the alarm will detract from the company's profits and, thus, their own profits. Are you advocating for profit sharing/wealth redistribution in a really indirect way?
- chaps 7y ago
  This is a very, very HN comment.
- numakerg 7y ago
  > Are you advocating for profit sharing/wealth redistribution in a really indirect way? Why not? I would support mandatory stock options based on the number of employees. In reality though, I think it would be defeated by creative accounting just like taxation.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    How would stock options change anything in that regard? If you blow the whistle, the price decreases and your options are worth less money. You still have incentive to keep your mouth shut.
- gorgoiler 7y ago
  I’m not arguing either way but would point out: 1/ Drawing a salary is profit sharing. 2/ Keeping your job is a reward.
  - vageli 7y ago
    > I’m not arguing either way but would point out: > 1/ Drawing a salary is profit sharing. People still get paid when companies don't turn a profit.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Salary is a maximally derisked profit sharing scheme. You get much less money that you could've earned in times of company's success, in exchange for a stable income even if the company is not successful.
    - gorgoiler 7y ago
      It feels like we’re splitting hairs a little. In the context of my comment on the parent, profit and revenue are the same thing. After all, if you share 100% of your profit in another sense your company makes no profit at the end of the year. The point is: once your livelihood depends on being part of an organisation, your judgement about that org can’t be completely impartial.
- watwut 7y ago
  Another way to reward loyalty to ethically challenged manager: promotion, more interesting projects, public praise, not abusing you like the others and so on.
- Renaud 7y ago
  That's a pretty narrow definition of loyalty. You are assuming that it's just a thing bought with money. You can be loyal to the values that your company represent or the values you expect it to hold. A company that behaves callously doesn't reflect well on the employees that represent it. These employees may have higher expectations of what their company behaviour should be. You don't need to reward people with money for them to defend that.
unexaminedlife 7y ago
I think loyalty is the root of all corruption. If it's not it's pretty close.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  There is also self-serving corruption. Loyalty is required for any systematic, organised, group-based corruption, however. Typology of corruption: http://corruptioncontrol.com/Types_of_Corruption.html http://corruptioncontrol.com/Types_of_Corruption.html
- harry8 7y ago
  And fear based discipline. Whistle-blower retaliation. And that, right there, is why the hideously corrupt hate Wikileaks so so much. Wikileaks publish. Always. Their reputation on it is rock solid. If you're corrupt or involved in a cover up you gotta hate that. And do everything to destroy it.
  - MagnumOpus 7y ago
    Wikileaks was like that before it got infiltrated in 2016. Then it changed rapidly, not publishing when it does not serve Russian interests. One very prominent example: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-l...
    - fit2rule 7y ago
      This is such utter nonsense. How can any honest intellectual consider this to be anything other than the result of a calculated agitprop campaign by the utterly corrupt US military industrial complex .. Assange is not a Russian agent, and Wikileaks is not a Russian operation, and never was. It just so happens that the majority of dire, desperate corruption that Wikileaks revealed, was indeed committed by Western entities. This does not mean that Russia doesn't have its problems - but it has not committed war crimes and other very real crimes against humanity at anything near the scale of the criminal Western war coalition and the member 5-eyes nations. Please, inform yourself as to the nature of the very real agitprop campaign that has been waged against Wikileaks, and in so doing - have the courage to see Assange for the hero he really is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgw6FoFPhjo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgw6FoFPhjo

jimbob45 7y ago

I'm not sure what you're arguing. Rewarding loyalty to the company typically takes the form of profit sharing, wherein employees would be incentivized to ignore management abuse (for instance) because they know raising the alarm will detract from the company's profits and, thus, their own profits. Are you advocating for profit sharing/wealth redistribution in a really indirect way?

chaps 7y ago
This is a very, very HN comment.
numakerg 7y ago
> Are you advocating for profit sharing/wealth redistribution in a really indirect way? Why not? I would support mandatory stock options based on the number of employees. In reality though, I think it would be defeated by creative accounting just like taxation.
- luckylion 7y ago
  How would stock options change anything in that regard? If you blow the whistle, the price decreases and your options are worth less money. You still have incentive to keep your mouth shut.
gorgoiler 7y ago
I’m not arguing either way but would point out: 1/ Drawing a salary is profit sharing. 2/ Keeping your job is a reward.
- vageli 7y ago
  > I’m not arguing either way but would point out: > 1/ Drawing a salary is profit sharing. People still get paid when companies don't turn a profit.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Salary is a maximally derisked profit sharing scheme. You get much less money that you could've earned in times of company's success, in exchange for a stable income even if the company is not successful.
  - gorgoiler 7y ago
    It feels like we’re splitting hairs a little. In the context of my comment on the parent, profit and revenue are the same thing. After all, if you share 100% of your profit in another sense your company makes no profit at the end of the year. The point is: once your livelihood depends on being part of an organisation, your judgement about that org can’t be completely impartial.
watwut 7y ago
Another way to reward loyalty to ethically challenged manager: promotion, more interesting projects, public praise, not abusing you like the others and so on.
Renaud 7y ago
That's a pretty narrow definition of loyalty. You are assuming that it's just a thing bought with money. You can be loyal to the values that your company represent or the values you expect it to hold. A company that behaves callously doesn't reflect well on the employees that represent it. These employees may have higher expectations of what their company behaviour should be. You don't need to reward people with money for them to defend that.

unexaminedlife 7y ago

I think loyalty is the root of all corruption. If it's not it's pretty close.

dredmorbius 7y ago
There is also self-serving corruption. Loyalty is required for any systematic, organised, group-based corruption, however. Typology of corruption: http://corruptioncontrol.com/Types_of_Corruption.html http://corruptioncontrol.com/Types_of_Corruption.html
harry8 7y ago
And fear based discipline. Whistle-blower retaliation. And that, right there, is why the hideously corrupt hate Wikileaks so so much. Wikileaks publish. Always. Their reputation on it is rock solid. If you're corrupt or involved in a cover up you gotta hate that. And do everything to destroy it.
- MagnumOpus 7y ago
  Wikileaks was like that before it got infiltrated in 2016. Then it changed rapidly, not publishing when it does not serve Russian interests. One very prominent example: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-l...
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    This is such utter nonsense. How can any honest intellectual consider this to be anything other than the result of a calculated agitprop campaign by the utterly corrupt US military industrial complex .. Assange is not a Russian agent, and Wikileaks is not a Russian operation, and never was. It just so happens that the majority of dire, desperate corruption that Wikileaks revealed, was indeed committed by Western entities. This does not mean that Russia doesn't have its problems - but it has not committed war crimes and other very real crimes against humanity at anything near the scale of the criminal Western war coalition and the member 5-eyes nations. Please, inform yourself as to the nature of the very real agitprop campaign that has been waged against Wikileaks, and in so doing - have the courage to see Assange for the hero he really is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgw6FoFPhjo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgw6FoFPhjo