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Mass. Governor Charlie Baker coordinated with BJ's Wholesale to get a shipment of 2M N95 masks...they were all "sized" (stolen) by the Feds. The governor then c

Mass. Governor Charlie Baker coordinated with BJ's Wholesale to get a shipment of 2M N95 masks...they were all "sized" (stolen) by the Feds. The governor then coordinated with Patriots owner Robert Kraft to use the patriots private jet to go get 1M masks. Thank goodness to the Kraft family and their support in this situation. There has been 0 transparency or audit trail with where these masks are going that the Feds are seizing. If I were Charlie Baker I would call up the National Guard and tell them to retrieve the masks that were sized by any means necessary. This is an absolute disgrace, and blatant theft by the Feds.

VectorLock 7y ago
This I think is still the wildest story out of this entire ordeal.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
cm2187 7y ago
The same happened all over europe. European countries seizing equipment in transit toward other european countries. Even France did it (despite Macron's insistance on European cooperation).
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  Just to point out a distinction, this more similar to the EU as an entity seizing shipments headed to Germany or France rather than another country within Europe taking them.
- Yoric 7y ago
  To clarify: the shipment for Sweden was eventually released by France. This was clearly a snafu, but it was eventually resolved.
  - cm2187 7y ago
    Only half from what I read [1] [1] https://www.lyonmag.com/article/106690/quatre-millions-de-masques-destines-a-l-8217-espagne-et-l-8217-italie-requisitionnes-a-lyon https://www.lyonmag.com/article/106690/quatre-millions-de-ma...
    - Yoric 7y ago
      More details here [1]. 4 million masks from Sweden (although newspapers had initially reported they were for Sweden) were seized while stored in France. This includes 1 million that were shipped towards France, 1 million towards Switzerland, 2 millions towards Italy and Spain. After much diplomacy, 2 millions were released. My guess is that these are the masks meant for Italy and Spain (part of the EU) and that the masks shipped outside of the EU (Switzerland) were requisitioned. [1] https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/04/03/la-france-a-t-elle-intercepte-des-masques-a-destination-de-la-suede_1784053 https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/04/03/la-france-a-t...
- KarlKemp 7y ago
  That's certainly not ideal, but still completely different. Many countries have understandably banned/slowed exporting these supplies. Some of those restrictions certainly went too far: Canada, for example, depends on US suppliers for some materials, and cutting them off completely is going to hurt them rather badly while, due to size differences, not being all that significant for the US. The same is true for some European countries. Sometimes country A depends on B for X, and B depends on A for Y. The first or second most important region for ventilator manufacturing, for example, happens to be... northern Italy! What the Federal Government in the US is doing is something different altogether. They're confiscating material within individual states. It's not even clear why they have jurisdiction. They seem to sometimes argue from a default assumption of shipments being destined for the black market, and otherwise simply rely on raw power, FBI badges, and ill-defined emergency powers.
Zhenya 7y ago
Link to story: https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-massachusetts-were-confiscated-in-port-of-new-york/32021700 https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-mass... Edit: Removed accidental amp link. Touchy bunch around here with all the downvotes for helping.
- markovbot 7y ago
  non-amp link to story: https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-massachusetts-were-confiscated-in-port-of-new-york/32021700 https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-mass...
- _-_T_-_ 7y ago
  The coalition arranged a purchase of the masks in China, which were flown back to Massachusetts Thursday aboard a New England Patriots private plane.
throwaway5752 7y ago
They are being reallocated (with strong indications being that it's for political gain by the current administration and to help vulnerable congressional candidates) or given to private entities. This is yet another example of something that would be the greatest or one of the greatest presidential scandals in US history, but is hardly noticeable given the background level of scandal and distraction. edit: related example - ventilators, not ppe - with potus tweets on the matter embedded https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-ventilators-trump-polis-gardner-fema/ https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-ventilat... edit: other reporting on the matter https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-washington-seize-coronavirus-supplies https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-..., https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241884351.html https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241... Respond to me, don't downvote me. Also, explain how Blue Flame Medical started and got its inventory, and how inventory from Operation Airbridge were procured/where they went.
- Taniwha 7y ago
  "kleptocracy" is the word you are looking for
  - pilsetnieks 7y ago
    I believe "kakistocracy" is the proper term (it encompasses kleptocracy but that is just one aspect of it.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy
- chris11 7y ago
  I was little curious why Newsom wasn't wanting to release details of California's billion dollar contract for N95 masks. His office even said disclosing details could threaten the supply. It makes a lot more sense if they're afraid the government will seize them. https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Gavin-Newsom-s-administration-not-releasing-1-15208694.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Gavin-Newsom-s-...
  - deleted 6y ago
762236 7y ago
When you say 'theft', did someone pay for and then not receive the supplies?
- Mc_Big_G 7y ago
  What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to willfully not understand what is happening here? Red hats scramble brains.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    To be expected. They don't come with a tin foil lining. The CIA perfected their mind control tech that was being trialed on Obama's diplomatic missions.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- KarlKemp 7y ago
  Yes, these were paid in advance by MA. There have been dozens of similar reports. Nobody is currently shipping anything without up-front payment. Here's a detailed account from a hospital administrator in the New England Journal of Medicine: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025 (Edit: did the linked article change? Anyway: the up-front payment is described in the article, that I somehow managed to link here again). This one ends well. Others didn't. Note that this isn't about the money. It's literally life-saving equipment. The Federal Government has to either take responsibility, take over all purchasing, and distribute the material in a transparent, need-based process. OR it can tell the states to each do their own thing. They'll outbid each other and end up paying far more than necessary, many will buy more than needed to be on the safe side because the political risk is highly asymmetrical. It's a stupid way to do this, and it will cost lives (and money). But, unlike testing, it's not totally impossible. What the Federal Administration can't do is tell the states do buy their own supplies, then intercept any shipments and... well, nobody really seems to know what they're doing with it. The best-case scenario for what's happening is probably just incompetence. If, in six months or so, a gigantic stash of PPE is found in some warehouse, people in the administration will point to that as vindication: see! we didn't intentionally kill anybody. Second best scenario: Are they giving it back to commercial resellers that happen to be golf buddies with the son-in-law, who then get to sell the same shipment several times? Somehow, commercial distributors seem to be involved. We'll hopefully find out about the why and how in due course. Nightmare scenario: if the narrative about conservative and swing states receiving far more, both in terms of population as well as disease burden, than blue states turns out to be true... I don't know what happens? That's so far beyond the pale it would never even be considered possible in normal times.
snarf21 7y ago
The Great Pumpkin is sending them to rustbelt states and donor companies to setup for November. The exact where doesn't matter.
- cardamomo 7y ago
  The "exact where" matters in that our governmental institutions should act with transparency and that we should act on facts.
  - snarf21 7y ago
    I agree that it should matter. I just meant we don't need to know what warehouse it is in to know it was stolen for reelection purposes. It's disgusting, people are dying directly because of this behaviour.
op03 7y ago
When you say the Feds, I am finding it hard to believe they even have the capability locally (logistically/politically) to pull this off...doesn't make sense. Maybe a couple of areas there is an over enthusiastic Trumper in a Fed office...but I doubt many have the balls to tell Governors to fuck off. They have to continue to live in those states you know...
- favorited 7y ago
  They don't have to tell the governors anything. Federal agents seized the PPE that MA had sourced when it was in transit. No "balls" required.
refurb 7y ago
"The federal government has dropped the ball when it comes to this epidemic and needs to show more leadership". -Feds seize and take over PPE procurements and distribution- "Why did you steal my masks?"
- jasonlotito 7y ago
  See, I know you think you are being clever, but you're not. Here is the problem. The fed has dropped the ball already. It needs to show more leadership going forward. The time for the fed seizing PPE procurement and distribution has already passed though, at least in the way they are doing it. The only thing they are doing is taking PPE that is needed now and keeping it away from those that expect to get it. Basically, the fed are putting on seat belts after the car crash.
  - refurb 7y ago
    My comment was more about the grandstanding and politicizing of the epidemic. It doesn’t really matter what choices were made, if either political party can score points, they will do it.
    - jasonlotito 7y ago
      My comment was more about reality. It doesn't matter what yours was about, it ignored fundamental issues.
      - refurb 7y ago
        Thanks for being a part of the solution.
cryoshon 7y ago
>If I were Charlie Baker I would call up the National Guard and tell them to retrieve the masks that were sized by any means necessary. This is an absolute disgrace, and blatant theft by the Feds. you are not the first to suggest this. and, in fact, the massachusetts national guard defended the shipment from kraft's plane to ensure it was not seized upon arrival. by all appearances, the federal government is stealing and redirecting life saving and critical equipment on the basis of cronyism and political loyalty. this is an attack on the population of the states being stolen from. make no mistake: just a bit further down this very road is the dissolution of the union between the states that comprise the country.
- ende 7y ago
  Whoa, you got a link about the NG guarding the Kraft shipment? That’s wild! I don’t think dissolution is in the future because dissolution doesn’t make any sense for anyone. Nobody but Putin’s propagandists want to split up the American geopolitical pie, everybody wants to control the whole pie. The geopolitical conditions just don’t exist for that to happen. Now we may see some wild intra-federal conflict, for sure, but nobody is going home with anything other than the full prize or nothing. More likely than not, Jonny Reb’s ancestors take a foolish stand and get Sherman’d just like their forefathers.
  - caseyohara 7y ago
    "Gov. Charlie Baker will greet the NFL team’s plane when it arrives at Logan Airport with Patriots owner Bob Kraft and Lt. Gov. Karyn Polito. From there, the state's National Guard will transport the equipment to a strategic stockpile in Marlboro" https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/bob-kraft-patriots-plane-massachusetts-masks-160936 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/bob-kraft-patriots-...
    - casefields 7y ago
      Trump could've federalized the national guard if he wanted to make it ugly. Congressional Research Service: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/LSB10121.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/LSB10121.pdf Disobeying the commander-in-chief isn't taken too lightly. FYI.
burtonator 7y ago
On what grounds are they being seized... ?? This is absolutely theft and the FBI and DHS need to be prosecuted and hopefully sued individually. Nothing about the FBI/DHS charter allows them to commit crimes.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

VectorLock 7y ago

This I think is still the wildest story out of this entire ordeal.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

cm2187 7y ago

The same happened all over europe. European countries seizing equipment in transit toward other european countries. Even France did it (despite Macron's insistance on European cooperation).

ilikehurdles 7y ago
Just to point out a distinction, this more similar to the EU as an entity seizing shipments headed to Germany or France rather than another country within Europe taking them.
Yoric 7y ago
To clarify: the shipment for Sweden was eventually released by France. This was clearly a snafu, but it was eventually resolved.
- cm2187 7y ago
  Only half from what I read [1] [1] https://www.lyonmag.com/article/106690/quatre-millions-de-masques-destines-a-l-8217-espagne-et-l-8217-italie-requisitionnes-a-lyon https://www.lyonmag.com/article/106690/quatre-millions-de-ma...
  - Yoric 7y ago
    More details here [1]. 4 million masks from Sweden (although newspapers had initially reported they were for Sweden) were seized while stored in France. This includes 1 million that were shipped towards France, 1 million towards Switzerland, 2 millions towards Italy and Spain. After much diplomacy, 2 millions were released. My guess is that these are the masks meant for Italy and Spain (part of the EU) and that the masks shipped outside of the EU (Switzerland) were requisitioned. [1] https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/04/03/la-france-a-t-elle-intercepte-des-masques-a-destination-de-la-suede_1784053 https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/04/03/la-france-a-t...
KarlKemp 7y ago
That's certainly not ideal, but still completely different. Many countries have understandably banned/slowed exporting these supplies. Some of those restrictions certainly went too far: Canada, for example, depends on US suppliers for some materials, and cutting them off completely is going to hurt them rather badly while, due to size differences, not being all that significant for the US. The same is true for some European countries. Sometimes country A depends on B for X, and B depends on A for Y. The first or second most important region for ventilator manufacturing, for example, happens to be... northern Italy! What the Federal Government in the US is doing is something different altogether. They're confiscating material within individual states. It's not even clear why they have jurisdiction. They seem to sometimes argue from a default assumption of shipments being destined for the black market, and otherwise simply rely on raw power, FBI badges, and ill-defined emergency powers.

Zhenya 7y ago

Link to story: https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-massachusetts-were-confiscated-in-port-of-new-york/32021700 https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-mass... Edit: Removed accidental amp link. Touchy bunch around here with all the downvotes for helping.

markovbot 7y ago
non-amp link to story: https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-massachusetts-were-confiscated-in-port-of-new-york/32021700 https://www.wcvb.com/article/3-million-masks-ordered-by-mass...
_-_T_-_ 7y ago
The coalition arranged a purchase of the masks in China, which were flown back to Massachusetts Thursday aboard a New England Patriots private plane.

throwaway5752 7y ago

They are being reallocated (with strong indications being that it's for political gain by the current administration and to help vulnerable congressional candidates) or given to private entities. This is yet another example of something that would be the greatest or one of the greatest presidential scandals in US history, but is hardly noticeable given the background level of scandal and distraction. edit: related example - ventilators, not ppe - with potus tweets on the matter embedded https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-ventilators-trump-polis-gardner-fema/ https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/08/colorado-coronavirus-ventilat... edit: other reporting on the matter https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-washington-seize-coronavirus-supplies https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-..., https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241884351.html https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241... Respond to me, don't downvote me. Also, explain how Blue Flame Medical started and got its inventory, and how inventory from Operation Airbridge were procured/where they went.

Taniwha 7y ago
"kleptocracy" is the word you are looking for
- pilsetnieks 7y ago
  I believe "kakistocracy" is the proper term (it encompasses kleptocracy but that is just one aspect of it.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy
chris11 7y ago
I was little curious why Newsom wasn't wanting to release details of California's billion dollar contract for N95 masks. His office even said disclosing details could threaten the supply. It makes a lot more sense if they're afraid the government will seize them. https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Gavin-Newsom-s-administration-not-releasing-1-15208694.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Gavin-Newsom-s-...
- deleted 6y ago

762236 7y ago

When you say 'theft', did someone pay for and then not receive the supplies?

Mc_Big_G 7y ago
What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to willfully not understand what is happening here? Red hats scramble brains.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  To be expected. They don't come with a tin foil lining. The CIA perfected their mind control tech that was being trialed on Obama's diplomatic missions.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
KarlKemp 7y ago
Yes, these were paid in advance by MA. There have been dozens of similar reports. Nobody is currently shipping anything without up-front payment. Here's a detailed account from a hospital administrator in the New England Journal of Medicine: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025 (Edit: did the linked article change? Anyway: the up-front payment is described in the article, that I somehow managed to link here again). This one ends well. Others didn't. Note that this isn't about the money. It's literally life-saving equipment. The Federal Government has to either take responsibility, take over all purchasing, and distribute the material in a transparent, need-based process. OR it can tell the states to each do their own thing. They'll outbid each other and end up paying far more than necessary, many will buy more than needed to be on the safe side because the political risk is highly asymmetrical. It's a stupid way to do this, and it will cost lives (and money). But, unlike testing, it's not totally impossible. What the Federal Administration can't do is tell the states do buy their own supplies, then intercept any shipments and... well, nobody really seems to know what they're doing with it. The best-case scenario for what's happening is probably just incompetence. If, in six months or so, a gigantic stash of PPE is found in some warehouse, people in the administration will point to that as vindication: see! we didn't intentionally kill anybody. Second best scenario: Are they giving it back to commercial resellers that happen to be golf buddies with the son-in-law, who then get to sell the same shipment several times? Somehow, commercial distributors seem to be involved. We'll hopefully find out about the why and how in due course. Nightmare scenario: if the narrative about conservative and swing states receiving far more, both in terms of population as well as disease burden, than blue states turns out to be true... I don't know what happens? That's so far beyond the pale it would never even be considered possible in normal times.

snarf21 7y ago

The Great Pumpkin is sending them to rustbelt states and donor companies to setup for November. The exact where doesn't matter.

cardamomo 7y ago
The "exact where" matters in that our governmental institutions should act with transparency and that we should act on facts.
- snarf21 7y ago
  I agree that it should matter. I just meant we don't need to know what warehouse it is in to know it was stolen for reelection purposes. It's disgusting, people are dying directly because of this behaviour.

op03 7y ago

When you say the Feds, I am finding it hard to believe they even have the capability locally (logistically/politically) to pull this off...doesn't make sense. Maybe a couple of areas there is an over enthusiastic Trumper in a Fed office...but I doubt many have the balls to tell Governors to fuck off. They have to continue to live in those states you know...

favorited 7y ago
They don't have to tell the governors anything. Federal agents seized the PPE that MA had sourced when it was in transit. No "balls" required.

refurb 7y ago

"The federal government has dropped the ball when it comes to this epidemic and needs to show more leadership". -Feds seize and take over PPE procurements and distribution- "Why did you steal my masks?"

jasonlotito 7y ago
See, I know you think you are being clever, but you're not. Here is the problem. The fed has dropped the ball already. It needs to show more leadership going forward. The time for the fed seizing PPE procurement and distribution has already passed though, at least in the way they are doing it. The only thing they are doing is taking PPE that is needed now and keeping it away from those that expect to get it. Basically, the fed are putting on seat belts after the car crash.
- refurb 7y ago
  My comment was more about the grandstanding and politicizing of the epidemic. It doesn’t really matter what choices were made, if either political party can score points, they will do it.
  - jasonlotito 7y ago
    My comment was more about reality. It doesn't matter what yours was about, it ignored fundamental issues.
    - refurb 7y ago
      Thanks for being a part of the solution.

cryoshon 7y ago

>If I were Charlie Baker I would call up the National Guard and tell them to retrieve the masks that were sized by any means necessary. This is an absolute disgrace, and blatant theft by the Feds. you are not the first to suggest this. and, in fact, the massachusetts national guard defended the shipment from kraft's plane to ensure it was not seized upon arrival. by all appearances, the federal government is stealing and redirecting life saving and critical equipment on the basis of cronyism and political loyalty. this is an attack on the population of the states being stolen from. make no mistake: just a bit further down this very road is the dissolution of the union between the states that comprise the country.

ende 7y ago
Whoa, you got a link about the NG guarding the Kraft shipment? That’s wild! I don’t think dissolution is in the future because dissolution doesn’t make any sense for anyone. Nobody but Putin’s propagandists want to split up the American geopolitical pie, everybody wants to control the whole pie. The geopolitical conditions just don’t exist for that to happen. Now we may see some wild intra-federal conflict, for sure, but nobody is going home with anything other than the full prize or nothing. More likely than not, Jonny Reb’s ancestors take a foolish stand and get Sherman’d just like their forefathers.
- caseyohara 7y ago
  "Gov. Charlie Baker will greet the NFL team’s plane when it arrives at Logan Airport with Patriots owner Bob Kraft and Lt. Gov. Karyn Polito. From there, the state's National Guard will transport the equipment to a strategic stockpile in Marlboro" https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/bob-kraft-patriots-plane-massachusetts-masks-160936 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/bob-kraft-patriots-...
  - casefields 7y ago
    Trump could've federalized the national guard if he wanted to make it ugly. Congressional Research Service: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/LSB10121.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/LSB10121.pdf Disobeying the commander-in-chief isn't taken too lightly. FYI.

burtonator 7y ago

On what grounds are they being seized... ?? This is absolutely theft and the FBI and DHS need to be prosecuted and hopefully sued individually. Nothing about the FBI/DHS charter allows them to commit crimes.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]