10 ms·

Sadly most games nowadays comes with multiplayer as the main product, so that anticheat engines are a necessity to make the game fair for everyone. Those aren't

by m-p-3 7y ago

Sadly most games nowadays comes with multiplayer as the main product, so that anticheat engines are a necessity to make the game fair for everyone. Those aren't friendly to Wine/Proton, therefore I try to stick to mostly single-player games. With the kids of how life is going faster everyday, I cannot afford to play on long stretches of time, and being unable to pause on a multiplayer game on a whim (which makes sense) makes it logical to go with a single-player game, as I can simply pause the game and pick it right up when I can, on my own schedule. I'm glad that Valve is doing that kind of work, it benefits everyone.

0xdeadbeee 7y ago
Supposedly Valve is working on this, but the lack of recent news is not promising: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/apparently-valve-are-working-with-easy-anti-cheat-to-get-support-in-steam-play.13573 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/apparently-valve-are-...
- himinlomax 7y ago
  The main company working on anti-cheat software was bough by Epic, and they dropped their Linux efforts as a result.
  - tvb12 7y ago
    Epic is kind of a thorn in the side for me when gaming (on a Linux distribution). There are a few Epic exclusive games that I'd like to play (Arise: a simple story, Journey, etc.), but they don't even have entries in protondb. That's probably due to Epic not having a launcher for Linux. A few months ago(?), I read it had become possible to run the launcher through Wine, but I don't think that's changed anything on the porting side. I worry that games which are released as Epic exclusives may fall by the wayside when/if they eventually become nonexclusive.
    - ekianjo 7y ago
      You can run the epic games store on Linux and so far it worls well for indie titles I tried there. Not sure about AAA titles.
  - coldpie 7y ago
    Do you have a source for this claim?
    - himinlomax 7y ago
      https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/blbebq/ethics_epic_buys_anti_cheat_firm_kamu_easy_anti/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/blbebq/ethi...
  - ThatPlayer 7y ago
    The company being bought by Epic happened before this news about the Linux effort. So I don't think that timeline is correct.
pmarreck 7y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but anticheat engines, the way I believe they are currently designed, use their proximity to the actual hardware and OS to work, and the layer of abstraction introduced by Vulkan ruins this. What if the anticheat model was changed to one that detects statistically-improbable scoring (basically, a scientific model)? And triggering that would require some sort of skill verification, almost like a captcha, but for human FPS skill or whatever, generated dynamically? Basically giving up knowing "with absolute certainty" whether there is cheat software installed or not
- MattRix 7y ago
  There should be a very small percentage of exceptional players. If you allow everyone who cheats to play, even if they're only playing at the peak, it will break the balance of everything. The top tier games will suck because half the players are cheaters, and the lower tier games will be filled with aimbot smurfs on their way up. Unfortunately pretty soon we are going to enter a world where the cheats can be deep learning based and entirely external to the game itself (only using video as input, transmitting raw mouse input, etc). It will be fundamentally impossible to tell the difference from human players. This will be a weird time for competitive games when it happens.
  - srajabi 7y ago
    In that circumstance if we had really good auto match making, does it matter? In a competitive environment I don't care if I'm vs.'ing a bot or a human as long as I'm matched with the intent of 50% win rate. Of course with current cheating the issue is not deep learning based agents but seeing through walls or aim assisting. Those just ruin the enjoyment of the game. Similarly I loathe vs'ing an AI that uses the same methods.
    - sdenton4 7y ago
      Really, we should just get rid of the pesky cheating human players and pit them against variable strength AIs...
seph-reed 7y ago
I really miss user server hosting. Stuff like custom maps, or weird custom rules. In a case like this, users couldn't stop cheating, but they could at least triage who is allowed on the server and who is not.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  That hasn’t gone away at all - you just can’t expect call of duty or battlefield.
syshum 7y ago
One of my biggest frustrations with modern gaming is the lack of single payer games, everyone focuses on Multiplayer, I have zero interest in playing with others, I play games to escape from people.... People suck, I do not want them in my games
- linuxhansl 7y ago
  Hear, hear. I feel exactly the same way. The cynic in me just thinks that it saves the game developers from the need to develop good AIs. Perhaps it's just my style of video gaming... I play games to relax, definitely not to compete. People sometimes get so wound up in these games, it's supposed to be fun! So, yes, if a game is multiplayer only, it's a reason for me not to play.
  - badpun 7y ago
    > The cynic in me just thinks that it saves the game developers from the need to develop good AIs. Balancing a multiplayer game is generally much more difficult than doing a single player game with AIs.
- na85 7y ago
  Conversely, I can't fathom how people can enjoy long stretches of singleplayer. I occasionally play a bit of Cities Skylines every few months, but if there isn't another human involved, games just can't hold my interest. Where's the satisfaction/fun come from if you're just beating some silly algorithm?
  - syshum 7y ago
    For me it is not about competing or beating anything. I do play alot of simulation games, like Cities Skylines or Stellearis. When I play first person shooters, I just like to run around and blow things up, I rarely "finish" the campaigns, for example Borderlands, Just like to run around the world and see how much destruction and havoc I can cause before I die, then start over... I am not a completionist, I have no strong urge to "win" or "finish" the games.... I is just a way for me to turn my brain off for a few hours and escape the real world

by m-p-3 7y ago

0xdeadbeee 7y ago

Supposedly Valve is working on this, but the lack of recent news is not promising: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/apparently-valve-are-working-with-easy-anti-cheat-to-get-support-in-steam-play.13573 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/apparently-valve-are-...

himinlomax 7y ago
The main company working on anti-cheat software was bough by Epic, and they dropped their Linux efforts as a result.
- tvb12 7y ago
  Epic is kind of a thorn in the side for me when gaming (on a Linux distribution). There are a few Epic exclusive games that I'd like to play (Arise: a simple story, Journey, etc.), but they don't even have entries in protondb. That's probably due to Epic not having a launcher for Linux. A few months ago(?), I read it had become possible to run the launcher through Wine, but I don't think that's changed anything on the porting side. I worry that games which are released as Epic exclusives may fall by the wayside when/if they eventually become nonexclusive.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    You can run the epic games store on Linux and so far it worls well for indie titles I tried there. Not sure about AAA titles.
- coldpie 7y ago
  Do you have a source for this claim?
  - himinlomax 7y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/blbebq/ethics_epic_buys_anti_cheat_firm_kamu_easy_anti/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/blbebq/ethi...
- ThatPlayer 7y ago
  The company being bought by Epic happened before this news about the Linux effort. So I don't think that timeline is correct.

pmarreck 7y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but anticheat engines, the way I believe they are currently designed, use their proximity to the actual hardware and OS to work, and the layer of abstraction introduced by Vulkan ruins this. What if the anticheat model was changed to one that detects statistically-improbable scoring (basically, a scientific model)? And triggering that would require some sort of skill verification, almost like a captcha, but for human FPS skill or whatever, generated dynamically? Basically giving up knowing "with absolute certainty" whether there is cheat software installed or not

MattRix 7y ago
There should be a very small percentage of exceptional players. If you allow everyone who cheats to play, even if they're only playing at the peak, it will break the balance of everything. The top tier games will suck because half the players are cheaters, and the lower tier games will be filled with aimbot smurfs on their way up. Unfortunately pretty soon we are going to enter a world where the cheats can be deep learning based and entirely external to the game itself (only using video as input, transmitting raw mouse input, etc). It will be fundamentally impossible to tell the difference from human players. This will be a weird time for competitive games when it happens.
- srajabi 7y ago
  In that circumstance if we had really good auto match making, does it matter? In a competitive environment I don't care if I'm vs.'ing a bot or a human as long as I'm matched with the intent of 50% win rate. Of course with current cheating the issue is not deep learning based agents but seeing through walls or aim assisting. Those just ruin the enjoyment of the game. Similarly I loathe vs'ing an AI that uses the same methods.
  - sdenton4 7y ago
    Really, we should just get rid of the pesky cheating human players and pit them against variable strength AIs...

seph-reed 7y ago

I really miss user server hosting. Stuff like custom maps, or weird custom rules. In a case like this, users couldn't stop cheating, but they could at least triage who is allowed on the server and who is not.

dawnerd 7y ago
That hasn’t gone away at all - you just can’t expect call of duty or battlefield.

syshum 7y ago

One of my biggest frustrations with modern gaming is the lack of single payer games, everyone focuses on Multiplayer, I have zero interest in playing with others, I play games to escape from people.... People suck, I do not want them in my games

linuxhansl 7y ago
Hear, hear. I feel exactly the same way. The cynic in me just thinks that it saves the game developers from the need to develop good AIs. Perhaps it's just my style of video gaming... I play games to relax, definitely not to compete. People sometimes get so wound up in these games, it's supposed to be fun! So, yes, if a game is multiplayer only, it's a reason for me not to play.
- badpun 7y ago
  > The cynic in me just thinks that it saves the game developers from the need to develop good AIs. Balancing a multiplayer game is generally much more difficult than doing a single player game with AIs.
na85 7y ago
Conversely, I can't fathom how people can enjoy long stretches of singleplayer. I occasionally play a bit of Cities Skylines every few months, but if there isn't another human involved, games just can't hold my interest. Where's the satisfaction/fun come from if you're just beating some silly algorithm?
- syshum 7y ago
  For me it is not about competing or beating anything. I do play alot of simulation games, like Cities Skylines or Stellearis. When I play first person shooters, I just like to run around and blow things up, I rarely "finish" the campaigns, for example Borderlands, Just like to run around the world and see how much destruction and havoc I can cause before I die, then start over... I am not a completionist, I have no strong urge to "win" or "finish" the games.... I is just a way for me to turn my brain off for a few hours and escape the real world