5 ms·

That's how you end up with a lot of super cheap "contractors" and very few actual employees, all of whom will be highly paid upper management.

coldtea 7y ago
Well, then have courts enforce the intent of the law with great punishments that forbid such "creative" bypasses of the spirit of the law...
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Should Microsoft include janitors and good service workers who have long been outsourced, if they were ever employees at all? Security guards? Delivery people? The barista at the Starbucks nearby? This sounds like a law that would the courts would have a hard time enforcing, because companies and their employees depend on a wide variety of resources these days.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Should Microsoft include janitors and good service workers who have long been outsourced, if they were ever employees at all? Security guards? Absolutely. >Delivery people? The barista at the Starbucks nearby? No.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      The starbucks is in a Microsoft building though, so why not? The delivery person only goes between microsoft buildings, so why not? Can we game this by getting rid of food services on campus (everyone has to go "out" for lunch), and by ensuring that all deliveries transit through non Microsoft property?
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >Can we game this by getting rid of food services on campus (everyone has to go "out" for lunch), and by ensuring that all deliveries transit through non Microsoft property? Sure, but I'd still fine you if I was a judge. Like in copyright law that gets abused by copyright trolls, we need more laws that punish attempts to break the spirit of the law, even if they nominally follow the letter...
        seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        Put it this way: if I'm a tech company building a new campus and I know that I'll have to average food service workers salaries into our stats, why put food service on my campus at all? And if I decide not to put in food service, it having not existed before anyways, how is that breaking the spirit of the law? Do we have some kind of thought police going around figuring out if people make decisions for the "right" reasons or not? Sounds like 1984 to me.
- sct202 7y ago
  Tons of companies already outsource entire departments to 3rd parties like HR, customer support, IT, warehousing, transportation, accounting, janitorial, building maintenance, cafeteria staff, etc. It would basically be the same thing but on steroids.
- airstrike 7y ago
  The costs of enforcing those laws aren't zero. Not to mention bribing, corruption, and everything else that comes with micromanaging the economy
pmiller2 7y ago
Not so much "contractors," in terms of actual, physical people, but a split corporate structure where the management company contracts out staffing to the company that actually does the non-executive running of the business. See my sibling comment.

coldtea 7y ago

Well, then have courts enforce the intent of the law with great punishments that forbid such "creative" bypasses of the spirit of the law...

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
Should Microsoft include janitors and good service workers who have long been outsourced, if they were ever employees at all? Security guards? Delivery people? The barista at the Starbucks nearby? This sounds like a law that would the courts would have a hard time enforcing, because companies and their employees depend on a wide variety of resources these days.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Should Microsoft include janitors and good service workers who have long been outsourced, if they were ever employees at all? Security guards? Absolutely. >Delivery people? The barista at the Starbucks nearby? No.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    The starbucks is in a Microsoft building though, so why not? The delivery person only goes between microsoft buildings, so why not? Can we game this by getting rid of food services on campus (everyone has to go "out" for lunch), and by ensuring that all deliveries transit through non Microsoft property?
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >Can we game this by getting rid of food services on campus (everyone has to go "out" for lunch), and by ensuring that all deliveries transit through non Microsoft property? Sure, but I'd still fine you if I was a judge. Like in copyright law that gets abused by copyright trolls, we need more laws that punish attempts to break the spirit of the law, even if they nominally follow the letter...
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        Put it this way: if I'm a tech company building a new campus and I know that I'll have to average food service workers salaries into our stats, why put food service on my campus at all? And if I decide not to put in food service, it having not existed before anyways, how is that breaking the spirit of the law? Do we have some kind of thought police going around figuring out if people make decisions for the "right" reasons or not? Sounds like 1984 to me.
sct202 7y ago
Tons of companies already outsource entire departments to 3rd parties like HR, customer support, IT, warehousing, transportation, accounting, janitorial, building maintenance, cafeteria staff, etc. It would basically be the same thing but on steroids.
airstrike 7y ago
The costs of enforcing those laws aren't zero. Not to mention bribing, corruption, and everything else that comes with micromanaging the economy

pmiller2 7y ago

Not so much "contractors," in terms of actual, physical people, but a split corporate structure where the management company contracts out staffing to the company that actually does the non-executive running of the business. See my sibling comment.