6 ms·

Probably not many songbirds in Bern

ginko 6y ago
Cats have been in Europe for thousands of years by now[1]. My guess is that birds have adapted. As others mention, I've only very rarely seen cats catching birds around here. [1]not to mention the wild cats native to Europe, although of course in far smaller numbers.
- masonic 6y ago
  birds have adapted Air-to-Ground cat-seeking missiles?
- gambiting 6y ago
  >> As others mention, I've only very rarely seen cats catching birds around here That's exactly opposite of my experience - my mum has two cats that only live outside and I'd say that on average they bring at least 2-3 birds every week + 4-5 mice. Them hunting rodents is great, the birds not so much.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    Traditional mitigation in my country is giving the cat a collar with a bell on it.
    - gadders 6y ago
      They learn to work around that.
    - HeXetic 6y ago
      Evidence suggests that most birds are incapable of learning the association between the bell and the cat.
mschuster91 6y ago
In Europe, the danger for (song)birds are not cats, but rather glass front buildings, soil sealing (by roads and buildings), and in rural areas a drastic lack of biodiversity as farmland is ever more and more streamlined with no bushes or other patches of wild soil to provide space for wildlife.
- secretsatan 6y ago
  In switzerland, large glass structures often have pictures of prey birds on them to discourage birds flying in to them.
- Glavnokoman 6y ago
  Exactly! In the end it is the man who's the culprit. Birds and cats and coyotes (who occasionally eat cats) learnt to live together for millions of years.
Y-bar 6y ago
Does your cat catch birds? I have had cat(s) for most of my life, currently two. They are proficient hunters, they can catch rodents and lizards and wasps, even a hare once. But never have any one of my current or previous cats caught a single bird. I wonder, if the “common wisdom” of cats really catching and killing so many birds really is true?
- traderjane 6y ago
  https://www.npr.org/2020/04/18/820953617/the-killer-at-home-house-cats-have-more-impact-on-local-wildlife-than-wild-preda https://www.npr.org/2020/04/18/820953617/the-killer-at-home-...
  - Y-bar 6y ago
    I know it is a scientific study published in Nature that the NPR article is based on. Cats kill birds, I have zero doubts, cats kill lots of birds, that’s likely. Cats kill as much as that estimate says, I have significant doubts. For multiple reasons: Whenever a predator kills a bird there will be traces such as a bunch of feathers and inedible parts at the location of the kill and/or consumption. Never seen a single one of those. It is a single estimate, never replicated. There are hundreds of starlings, tits, and other small birds in my neighbourhood. It’s not like birds are a scarce resource. Nether do they seem especially held back by the local cats.
    - pdkl95 6y ago
      > there will be traces such as a bunch of feathers and inedible parts When my family lived in Hugo MN (north of St. Paul), we regularly saw feathers and other remains left by our cats. Occasionally they would leave a bird (or mouse) half dead on our kitchen floor... as an offering? Note that cats might not leave a lot of remains when they hunt, and the sometimes hide the parts they do leave. Also, while our cats regularly hunted birds, the local blue jays liked to hunt our cats... for sport. The would send one bird out at one end of the yard as bait, and wait for the cat to start hunting it, creeping slowly towards the bird. Then another bird (or several) would suddenly dive bomb it from behind, dropping 20-25 feet strait into the cat's rear end. Our cat would end up launched (and/or leaping) 6+ feet in the air.
PetitPrince 6y ago
You can see varous survey of bird sightings at this website https://www.ornitho.ch/ https://www.ornitho.ch/ . I am unforunately not a good ornithologist (or ornithologist at all) to know which species produce sound; however if you filter sightings in the last 15 days, then by canton (select "BE", which is the two letters code for Bern), then look for Bern (Bern is the name of a city but also of a canton, just as there's NY and NYC), then you will see there's at least 20 house sparrow in Bern city.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Cats won't impact bird populations that much, nature balances itself well enough - assuming there's enough green areas where birds can nest, of course. Plus, it helps control the mouse population as well.
throwaway9d0291 6y ago
I live in Switzerland. There are plenty of cats and plenty of birds as well. I think this is because Swiss cities are fairly small and fairly green. There are plenty of places birds can go that are safe from cats and other predators and a forest is never far away.
Nursie 6y ago
If there are not, then it is likely for reasons other than the cat population. Cats in the UK kill a lot of birds. But they are well, well behind habitat destruction as a cause for decline of bird populations.
tropdrop 6y ago
In light of the other comment about ample green space in Bern, and how songbirds have refuge because of it, we should consider whether cats killing songbirds is a more suburban phenomenon, and if so, why. Given that both cats and songbirds have been around for much longer than suburban lifestyles, could the flatness of nothing-but-Kentucky-Bluegrass lawns be to blame?

Cats have been in Europe for thousands of years by now[1]. My guess is that birds have adapted. As others mention, I've only very rarely seen cats catching birds around here. [1]not to mention the wild cats native to Europe, although of course in far smaller numbers.

masonic 6y ago
birds have adapted Air-to-Ground cat-seeking missiles?
gambiting 6y ago
>> As others mention, I've only very rarely seen cats catching birds around here That's exactly opposite of my experience - my mum has two cats that only live outside and I'd say that on average they bring at least 2-3 birds every week + 4-5 mice. Them hunting rodents is great, the birds not so much.
- michaelt 6y ago
  Traditional mitigation in my country is giving the cat a collar with a bell on it.
  - gadders 6y ago
    They learn to work around that.
  - HeXetic 6y ago
    Evidence suggests that most birds are incapable of learning the association between the bell and the cat.

mschuster91 6y ago

In Europe, the danger for (song)birds are not cats, but rather glass front buildings, soil sealing (by roads and buildings), and in rural areas a drastic lack of biodiversity as farmland is ever more and more streamlined with no bushes or other patches of wild soil to provide space for wildlife.

secretsatan 6y ago
In switzerland, large glass structures often have pictures of prey birds on them to discourage birds flying in to them.
Glavnokoman 6y ago
Exactly! In the end it is the man who's the culprit. Birds and cats and coyotes (who occasionally eat cats) learnt to live together for millions of years.

Y-bar 6y ago

Does your cat catch birds? I have had cat(s) for most of my life, currently two. They are proficient hunters, they can catch rodents and lizards and wasps, even a hare once. But never have any one of my current or previous cats caught a single bird. I wonder, if the “common wisdom” of cats really catching and killing so many birds really is true?

traderjane 6y ago
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/18/820953617/the-killer-at-home-house-cats-have-more-impact-on-local-wildlife-than-wild-preda https://www.npr.org/2020/04/18/820953617/the-killer-at-home-...
- Y-bar 6y ago
  I know it is a scientific study published in Nature that the NPR article is based on. Cats kill birds, I have zero doubts, cats kill lots of birds, that’s likely. Cats kill as much as that estimate says, I have significant doubts. For multiple reasons: Whenever a predator kills a bird there will be traces such as a bunch of feathers and inedible parts at the location of the kill and/or consumption. Never seen a single one of those. It is a single estimate, never replicated. There are hundreds of starlings, tits, and other small birds in my neighbourhood. It’s not like birds are a scarce resource. Nether do they seem especially held back by the local cats.
  - pdkl95 6y ago
    > there will be traces such as a bunch of feathers and inedible parts When my family lived in Hugo MN (north of St. Paul), we regularly saw feathers and other remains left by our cats. Occasionally they would leave a bird (or mouse) half dead on our kitchen floor... as an offering? Note that cats might not leave a lot of remains when they hunt, and the sometimes hide the parts they do leave. Also, while our cats regularly hunted birds, the local blue jays liked to hunt our cats... for sport. The would send one bird out at one end of the yard as bait, and wait for the cat to start hunting it, creeping slowly towards the bird. Then another bird (or several) would suddenly dive bomb it from behind, dropping 20-25 feet strait into the cat's rear end. Our cat would end up launched (and/or leaping) 6+ feet in the air.

PetitPrince 6y ago

You can see varous survey of bird sightings at this website https://www.ornitho.ch/ https://www.ornitho.ch/ . I am unforunately not a good ornithologist (or ornithologist at all) to know which species produce sound; however if you filter sightings in the last 15 days, then by canton (select "BE", which is the two letters code for Bern), then look for Bern (Bern is the name of a city but also of a canton, just as there's NY and NYC), then you will see there's at least 20 house sparrow in Bern city.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

Cats won't impact bird populations that much, nature balances itself well enough - assuming there's enough green areas where birds can nest, of course. Plus, it helps control the mouse population as well.

throwaway9d0291 6y ago

I live in Switzerland. There are plenty of cats and plenty of birds as well. I think this is because Swiss cities are fairly small and fairly green. There are plenty of places birds can go that are safe from cats and other predators and a forest is never far away.

Nursie 6y ago

If there are not, then it is likely for reasons other than the cat population. Cats in the UK kill a lot of birds. But they are well, well behind habitat destruction as a cause for decline of bird populations.

tropdrop 6y ago

In light of the other comment about ample green space in Bern, and how songbirds have refuge because of it, we should consider whether cats killing songbirds is a more suburban phenomenon, and if so, why. Given that both cats and songbirds have been around for much longer than suburban lifestyles, could the flatness of nothing-but-Kentucky-Bluegrass lawns be to blame?