3 ms·

I’ve spent an honest 20 minutes looking for corona ICU survival statistics. It might be public, but not easy to google. In the UK it seems to be 50%.

watwut 7y ago
The easy to find part is that not everyone in ICU is not attached to ventilator. Most people are not attached there.
- jordanbeiber 7y ago
  The data out there indicate a 50% ICU death rate in general. Ventilators seem to exacerbate the condition for covid patients. Sweden seem to have better success with intensive care than average. Are we perhaps intubating less. Train of thought ^.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    FWIW not all ventilation is intubation, you can have non-invasive ventilation. Just in case you weren't aware, this makes stats hard to ascertain as some sources seemingly are interpreting orginal sources as if they were synonymous.
    - jordanbeiber 7y ago
      Thanks. I was assuming the 80% death rate was intubated ventilation.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    Confounding factor: obesity rates and comorbidities From a glance, the US averages 3x the incidence rate of obesity as Sweden. Obese patients with existing health problems will result in substantially worse outcomes from Covid-19.
    - learc83 7y ago
      Where are you getting those numbers. From this study it looks like 20% of Swedish adults are obese. That's compared to 36.5% of US adults. Also the swedish study is from 2012, so it's probably slightly higher now. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160604050632.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160604050632.h...
      - ethbro 7y ago
        https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Obesity_country_co...
        learc83 7y ago
        That chart is from data collected between 1996 and 2003. It is very outdated.
  - watwut 7y ago
    ICU death rate heavily depends on whether the hospitals are overflown or not. The Italia or Spain ICU is not giving the same care now as it used to. The trajectory of cases and deaths in Sweden does not seem special to me, generally they seem to follow similar curve as other countries so far.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      >The trajectory of cases and deaths in Sweden does not seem special to me Certainly doesn't seem to be well outside of the range of outcomes in other countries at any rate. From what I've read--no first hand knowledge--it's also a bit hard to interpret the effect of Sweden not locking down. Apparently, at least around Stockholm, many people were staying home and not traveling. On the other hand, in at least some places, people were still going to bars and the like so it's a bit of a mixed bag. Almost certainly not business as usual but also likely a fair bit looser than a lot of places with more formal lockdowns. (And there's even quite a bit of variance there.)
DanBC 7y ago
The UK data can be found at ICNARC. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports This link opens a PDF download: https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c9b491af-ea80-ea11-9124-00505601089b https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c9b... (17th April 2020) > To date, ICNARC have been notified of 6664 admissions with confirmed COVID-19, either at or after admission to critical care, by critical care units in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Of these, early data covering the first 24 hours in the critical care unit have been submitted to ICNARC for 6313 admissions of 5578 patients (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Of the 5578 patients, 2936 have outcomes reported and 2642 patients were last reported as still receiving critical care (Figure 3). The largest number of patients (1924) are being managed by the three London Operational Delivery Networks (Figure 4). Please note that Figure 2 and Figure 3 are affected by a variable lag time for submission of data of about 1-3 days (shaded grey) [...big snip...] > Critical care unit outcomes have been received for only 2936 (of 5578) patients, of whom 1499 patients have died and 1437 have been discharged alive from critical care (Figure 8 and Figure 9). There's probably some more stats about critical care capacity here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/critical-care-capacity/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas...

watwut 7y ago

The easy to find part is that not everyone in ICU is not attached to ventilator. Most people are not attached there.

jordanbeiber 7y ago
The data out there indicate a 50% ICU death rate in general. Ventilators seem to exacerbate the condition for covid patients. Sweden seem to have better success with intensive care than average. Are we perhaps intubating less. Train of thought ^.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  FWIW not all ventilation is intubation, you can have non-invasive ventilation. Just in case you weren't aware, this makes stats hard to ascertain as some sources seemingly are interpreting orginal sources as if they were synonymous.
  - jordanbeiber 7y ago
    Thanks. I was assuming the 80% death rate was intubated ventilation.
- ethbro 7y ago
  Confounding factor: obesity rates and comorbidities From a glance, the US averages 3x the incidence rate of obesity as Sweden. Obese patients with existing health problems will result in substantially worse outcomes from Covid-19.
  - learc83 7y ago
    Where are you getting those numbers. From this study it looks like 20% of Swedish adults are obese. That's compared to 36.5% of US adults. Also the swedish study is from 2012, so it's probably slightly higher now. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160604050632.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160604050632.h...
    - ethbro 7y ago
      https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Obesity_country_co...
      - learc83 7y ago
        That chart is from data collected between 1996 and 2003. It is very outdated.
- watwut 7y ago
  ICU death rate heavily depends on whether the hospitals are overflown or not. The Italia or Spain ICU is not giving the same care now as it used to. The trajectory of cases and deaths in Sweden does not seem special to me, generally they seem to follow similar curve as other countries so far.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    >The trajectory of cases and deaths in Sweden does not seem special to me Certainly doesn't seem to be well outside of the range of outcomes in other countries at any rate. From what I've read--no first hand knowledge--it's also a bit hard to interpret the effect of Sweden not locking down. Apparently, at least around Stockholm, many people were staying home and not traveling. On the other hand, in at least some places, people were still going to bars and the like so it's a bit of a mixed bag. Almost certainly not business as usual but also likely a fair bit looser than a lot of places with more formal lockdowns. (And there's even quite a bit of variance there.)

DanBC 7y ago

The UK data can be found at ICNARC. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports This link opens a PDF download: https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c9b491af-ea80-ea11-9124-00505601089b https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c9b... (17th April 2020) > To date, ICNARC have been notified of 6664 admissions with confirmed COVID-19, either at or after admission to critical care, by critical care units in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Of these, early data covering the first 24 hours in the critical care unit have been submitted to ICNARC for 6313 admissions of 5578 patients (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Of the 5578 patients, 2936 have outcomes reported and 2642 patients were last reported as still receiving critical care (Figure 3). The largest number of patients (1924) are being managed by the three London Operational Delivery Networks (Figure 4). Please note that Figure 2 and Figure 3 are affected by a variable lag time for submission of data of about 1-3 days (shaded grey) [...big snip...] > Critical care unit outcomes have been received for only 2936 (of 5578) patients, of whom 1499 patients have died and 1437 have been discharged alive from critical care (Figure 8 and Figure 9). There's probably some more stats about critical care capacity here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/critical-care-capacity/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas...