10 ms·

Amazon employees plan ‘online walkout’ to protest treatment of warehouse workers

162 points by claudeganon 7y ago

NegativeLatency 7y ago
The treatment of warehouse workers and of people with different non office jobs is a strong reason why I will never work at a place like Amazon or Walmart. Glad to see some people sticking up for each other in these times especially.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, do you shop at places like either?
  - erehweb 7y ago
    Check out the Mr. Gotcha cartoon, if you haven't seen it - https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
- enitihas 7y ago
  What are your preferred places for work?
- danaliv 7y ago
  I've cancelled any and all memberships, subscriptions, etc. with Amazon and anything they own, and I'm no longer ordering anything from them. It's completely unacceptable to treat workers this way, even if Bezos weren't the richest person on earth. Which he is! So on top of treating people like disposable garbage, he controls a plurality of the world's resources and refuses to mobilize any of them to help his workers.
  - enitihas 7y ago
    Where do you buy from? Only local small business or someplace which pays even less than Amazon to their workers?
    - danaliv 7y ago
      This isn't about how much people are paid.
      - enitihas 7y ago
        So do you have another metric which can be compared across companies objectively? Or is it okay to soak the feel good by boycotting a company even if it means choosing worse ones?
  - pnw_hazor 7y ago
    Almost every business in the developed world relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Any manufacturer that sells parts or replacement parts relies on pickers. Every grocery store chain or department store chain relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Small outlets rely on distributors that rely on warehouse workers and pickers. Just about everything people use, eat, ride, drive, or wear relies on warehouse workers. Most non-Amazon warehouse workers are treated worse and paid less than Amazon employees. If you hate Amazon so be it, but hating them for the way they treat their warehouse workers and pickers is not rational unless you hate just about every modern business equally.
    - danaliv 7y ago
      "Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
      - exolymph 7y ago
        > I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong. You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.
        enitihas 7y ago
        Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
        Apocryphon 7y ago
        Try this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmart-for-groceries-household-essentials_l_5e820705c5b6cb9dc1a42f98 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...
  - yibg 7y ago
    What are some of the place you buy from that treats their workers better?
  - misun78 7y ago
    The irony in you typing this from most likely an iPhone/Android/PC made in China by factory workers under conditions far far worse than Amazon is quite palpable.
    - r00fus 7y ago
      A bit of whataboutism never hurts the argument I guess...
  - blablabla123 7y ago
    Yup, and there are tons of alternatives. Maybe sometimes it's not obvious for instance where to get some movies or order certain stuff. But a bit searching often pays off and sometimes reveals even more interesting places where to buy things. (I wish AWS wasn't that popular though...)
    - r00fus 7y ago
      I try to avoid Amazon when it's feasible. Care to list alternatives worth mentioning? Google express/shopping was great until it really just fell off a cliff a year or two ago.
      - blablabla123 7y ago
        For Video on demand apart from iTunes, Netflix there are plenty of niche websites especially for art house movies, criterionchannel.com is probably the largest though. And for the German market for example there is book delivery from thalia.de which can deliver via mail or to a book shop. (And momox.de for used book buy/sell - I stopped selling books on Amazon years ago because it's just too much effort, Momox has a simple bulk preparation)
        r00fus 7y ago
        Thanks but I'm more concerned about daily basics and groceries - both areas where Amazon is recently ascendant.
        blablabla123 7y ago
        Yeah ok, not sure about that. I basically try the online shopping functions that the supermarket/drug store chains offer that I would normally enjoy visiting in person. (But I have to plan in advance for that) Also I'm trying Hello Fresh soon. But I mean when there is no other alternative, it would probably be exaggerated to not buy at Amazon in the current situation...
- txcwpalpha 7y ago
  Amazon warehouse workers get $17/hr starting wage (and a full 2x ($34/hr!!) overtime), with no experience/education needed and almost no barrier to getting the job (except physical capability to lift a box), as well as the best health insurance I've ever heard of entry-level manual laborers getting, as well as education budgets to be used on any higher level education they want. Obviously warehouse work isn't glamorous and they are under a lot of pressure and there's nothing wrong with increased scrutiny on how they are treated, but it's also getting exhausting when people act like Amazon FC workers are treated like slaves.
  - dbg31415 7y ago
    Spot on. Amazon was able to hire over 100k employees in the last month. They did that by providing the best possible choice for those people -- the people wanted to work there. Sure, all for transparency, but let's be real. This job is a lot better than flipping burgers or mowing a road ditch. People are still lining up to work at Amazon. It's easy to be like, "Hey look at the big evil company!" but the truth of the matter is Amazon is one of the best places for low-skilled workers to find employment.
    - 908087 7y ago
      "Sure, the bread I'm handing out is moldy.. but these people who have been starving to death are still lining up to eat it!"
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    IMO it isn’t really relevant how much they’re paid or what the educational requirements. It’s never okay to treat people the way Amazon treats warehouse workers. If you (and the government) consider your business “essential” you simply have to take appropriate precautions to protect the health and safety of those people who are carrying out essential duties. I understand there are supply shortages around the world but Amazon isn’t even trying to make a good faith effort to protect their people. They’re doing the opposite, it seems. Fighting their employees every step of the way.
    - 7y ago
- throwawaysea 7y ago
  What are you even talking about? Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum (double federal minimum wage), with benefits, with double overtime pay. This is for totally unskilled and undifferentiated labor. Among warehouse jobs, Amazon is industry leading in wages. Walmart pays, I believe, a minimum of $11/hour. If people don't want to work in either of these places, they don't have to. It's a voluntary system. But clearly people want to work there and prefer that to the challenge of (for example) starting their own business. I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. Their blog mentions many of these changes and the seem reasonable and practical: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-prioritizes-health-and-safety-while-fulfilling-customer-orders https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit.... Obviously, there are limits to what a company can do with a physical operation like this. There are limits to the distancing that can be practiced. Equipment like PPEs are facing huge shortages right now and so obviously it isn't reasonable to expect that Amazon magically can summon up hundreds of thousands of N95 masks that should likely be going to healthcare workers first. Ultimately, if people don't want to take the risk of working during this time, that's up to them - they are free to leave voluntarily. All this outrage seems falsely amplified, and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda.
  - Mtinie 7y ago
    "[...]and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda." That may be true, though I suspect it's equally plausible that this outrage is indicative of a nakedly capitalistic agenda promoted by Amazon's competitors via proxies. I don't see any reason why it can't be both. Edit: To clarify, I should have ended my statement with "...why it can't be both, in addition to legitimate concerns."
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    >Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum Until the end of April, when the $2 per hour "bonus" goes away. >I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. It does appear that employees are not being punished for things like adequately washing their hands or getting sick for the time being. They were being punished for these things at the start of the year, and that blog makes it sound like they will be punished for them again when the pandemic is over.
supernova87a 7y ago
I wish them good luck with that, when there's 15% unemployment.
- claudeganon 7y ago
  This is the risk people have always taken to try and make things better for everyone. If everyone had your sentiment, instead of the courage to do things like this, people would still be working 7 days a week, alongside their children.
- tareqak 7y ago
  An unemployment rate of 15% cuts both ways. Mass walkouts and mass resignations are still disruptive especially if it takes time to onboard new employees.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    How does a high unemployment rate cut both ways? Seems like it only favors the employer — they'll have an easier time hiring new employees, and employees will have a harder time finding other jobs. Is there a way in which a high unemployment rate gives the employees leverage? I can see walkouts happening right now because Amazon employees know the company is under scrutiny and therefore less likely to fire them. But I doubt many people will 'put their money where their mouth is' and actually resign when the economy is doing poorly and there are very few jobs (and lots of job seekers).
    - tareqak 7y ago
      With a high enough unemployment rate, businesses might have trouble getting anything done because outside conditions start resembling a general strike. In addition, with a high enough unemployment rate, the customers of a business might not be able to afford the corresponding goods or services even if they are sold at cost. Grinding a battered economy to halt is easier.
    - decebalus1 7y ago
      Amazon is a high volume low margins business. Mass walkouts are very disruptive. Everything stopping 'the machine' translates into direct revenue loss. Amazon went to great lengths in making the machine resilient by having people be more expendable but we're still not at the point in which if a lot of people walk out at the same time, there's an army of scabs in standby to pick up the work and keep things going. If this goes viral and a lot of workers do it at the same time, it can be catastrophic.
tareqak 7y ago
> Previously, Costa said Amazon attempted to intervene in the group’s efforts to organize the panel by deleting invitations sent to other workers internally, which the group claims were accepted by more than 1,500 employees. It’s Amazon’s internal network, and Amazon’s email system, so they have the full right to control what happens on their resources. At the same time, I find that deleting the an email after it has been sent by the sender unknown to the sender to be a kind of gaslighting, and dystopian. Having a policy to not organize using work resources might be harsh, but at least it is more transparent as in the proverbial line is drawn in the proverbial sand.
- claudeganon 7y ago
  No, actually, none of that is true under US labor law. People can organize at their workplaces. It’s a protected action.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    You can organize at your workplace, but you don't have a right to use work resources to do it. (Workers used to have the right to use their work email, but the NLRB has recently overturned that precedent.)
    - txcwpalpha 7y ago
      There's also stipulations on when and where you can organize at your workplace. For example, putting up noticed about a union meeting on the bulletin board in the breakroom is allowed, but you can't put that same notice on a factory floor. You also can talk about organizing at work, but only if it's outside of work hours (you can't be on the clock and using that time to talk about organizing).
    - kennywinker 7y ago
      Calling work email a "resource" seems a little dubious to me. I.e. if I use office stationary to write my union manifesto, they have to buy more stationary. If I send an email they don't have to buy more of anything. Especially in the world we live in right now - email and other work-hosted communications platforms are not a resource provided by work, they are the WORKPLACE.
jsjddbbwj 7y ago
Can't you filter out this kind of employees using basic social network screening? They are likely to be very outspoken
- decebalus1 7y ago
  what 'kind' of employees are you referring to, exactly?
  - vkou 7y ago
    Ones that take advantage of their federal right to organize.
- btilly 7y ago
  In many states, no. See https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-potential-employers-check-your-facebook-page.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-potential-employ... for a quick overview of the legal reasons why not.
- mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
  I think you might be surprised by their level of outspokenness on social media or lack thereof. Are you familiar with the concept of the "silent majority"?
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    It's damn near impossible to differentiate a "silent majority" from an "apathetic majority" at scale. Edit: I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding my observation.
    - warkdarrior 7y ago
      The apathy is too damn high.
    - mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
      I think I used that term incorrectly. What I meant was that there are PLENTY of people who are not outspoken on social media and yet still not only have opinions but are willing to take action in the physical world to back them up, like these Amazon employees here.
tinyhouse 7y ago
The headline talks about protest treatment of warehouse workers but the actual article talks also about other things like climate criss. I'm a bit surprised since Bezos' annual letter that was published yesterday was heavily focused on these things.
- throwawaysea 7y ago
  These types of activists try to tie all these issues together using a lot of mental gymnastics, to try and build a coalition or to leverage the motivation behind one cause (like climate) to support another cause (like unionization). It's illogical, but it is a strategy commonly used because it is effective, even if disingenuous.
  - tick_tock_tick 7y ago
    I disagree that it works. Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter are two movements that lost most of their power and presence due to muddling their core message.
    - keanzu 7y ago
      Intersectionality is a theoretical framework for understanding how aspects of one's social and political identities (gender, race, class, sexuality, ability, etc.) might combine to create unique modes of discrimination. It aims to broaden the agenda of the first waves of feminism, which largely focused on the experiences of white, middle-class women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
sdffdsfdsfsddsf 7y ago
"The group, Amazon Employees for Climate Justice" That's hardly "Amazon employees", it's just a couple of people who are bonkers and happen to be Amazon employees. Fake news headline.
Aaronstotle 7y ago
While I'm glad that Amazon corporate employees are doing something to show solidarity, this seems more like a feel good activity for the corporate employees. This is similar to the Google walkout, what difference does it make if you leave work for one day, when everyone knows you're going to be at work the following day? If you do work at one of these companies, I would love to hear from you, I don't mean to be snarky/rude, but I sincerely don't see how walking out is helpful to anyone.
TomMckenny 7y ago
As an important aside, I'm sure everyone has noticed that grocery store clerks aren't allowed to wear masks in practice. I'm sure everyone has noticed quite a few other jobs where this is so. It seems endangering the lives of certain kinds of workers is nearly universal. Not to excuse them but I imagine Amazon has a lot of company in this[1]. I am very glad at least Amazon employeesare doing something about it. [1]https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/16/coronavirus-worker-at-safeway-distribution-center-in-tracy-dies-of-covid-19-complications/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/16/coronavirus-worker-at...
jb775 7y ago
It's about time for unions to make a comeback.
hn_user_77 7y ago
People are acting like these are coal mine workers. After reading about their high starting wage and decent benefits, it's hard to make an argument that they are mistreated.
Ratiofarmings 7y ago
It's nice that they thank their "essential workers" now. Meanwhile all the essential workers are like. Cool. Where is the money though. A "thanks" gives you a warm feeling, but doesn't pay the bills.
jader201 7y ago
I’ve been monitoring Amazon’s stocks through this whole crisis, and how they’re going through the roof while almost all others are taking huge losses. I can’t help but wonder if it will someday implode from the terrible, unsustainable conditions their workers seem to be facing — even prior to the pandemic, but exacerbated by it — and Amazon’s complete dismissal of it. And this isn’t even including the increasingly poor state of consumer trust in reviews, third party resellers, counterfeit products, and the myriad of ways resellers can game the system. All of which Amazon also seems to continue to dismiss as if it’s immune to the long-term impacts.
- kaesar14 7y ago
  As long as people continue to move their shopping online, I'm convinced no maltreatment of employees considered to be "working class" will stop people from making their purchases, especially with the convenience and price. Amazing considering the backlash against Uber for sexual harassment of female upper-middle to upper class white collar workers. Almost destroyed the company in the US. But the persistent abuse of thousands of working people - NOTHING!
- mritun 7y ago
  Amazon pays their workers 60% more than Walmart and almost double of other grocery stores. The working conditions are better, and they are hiring like crazy. There are a lot of short sellers around and not all news pieces are factual. Look for amazon job applications sites to see the reality vs other companies and then make up your mind.

162 points by claudeganon 7y ago

The treatment of warehouse workers and of people with different non office jobs is a strong reason why I will never work at a place like Amazon or Walmart. Glad to see some people sticking up for each other in these times especially.

whatshisface 7y ago
Out of curiosity, do you shop at places like either?
- erehweb 7y ago
  Check out the Mr. Gotcha cartoon, if you haven't seen it - https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
enitihas 7y ago
What are your preferred places for work?
danaliv 7y ago
I've cancelled any and all memberships, subscriptions, etc. with Amazon and anything they own, and I'm no longer ordering anything from them. It's completely unacceptable to treat workers this way, even if Bezos weren't the richest person on earth. Which he is! So on top of treating people like disposable garbage, he controls a plurality of the world's resources and refuses to mobilize any of them to help his workers.
- enitihas 7y ago
  Where do you buy from? Only local small business or someplace which pays even less than Amazon to their workers?
  - danaliv 7y ago
    This isn't about how much people are paid.
    - enitihas 7y ago
      So do you have another metric which can be compared across companies objectively? Or is it okay to soak the feel good by boycotting a company even if it means choosing worse ones?
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  Almost every business in the developed world relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Any manufacturer that sells parts or replacement parts relies on pickers. Every grocery store chain or department store chain relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Small outlets rely on distributors that rely on warehouse workers and pickers. Just about everything people use, eat, ride, drive, or wear relies on warehouse workers. Most non-Amazon warehouse workers are treated worse and paid less than Amazon employees. If you hate Amazon so be it, but hating them for the way they treat their warehouse workers and pickers is not rational unless you hate just about every modern business equally.
  - danaliv 7y ago
    "Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
    - exolymph 7y ago
      > I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong. You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.
      - enitihas 7y ago
        Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
        Apocryphon 7y ago
        Try this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmart-for-groceries-household-essentials_l_5e820705c5b6cb9dc1a42f98 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...
- yibg 7y ago
  What are some of the place you buy from that treats their workers better?
- misun78 7y ago
  The irony in you typing this from most likely an iPhone/Android/PC made in China by factory workers under conditions far far worse than Amazon is quite palpable.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    A bit of whataboutism never hurts the argument I guess...
- blablabla123 7y ago
  Yup, and there are tons of alternatives. Maybe sometimes it's not obvious for instance where to get some movies or order certain stuff. But a bit searching often pays off and sometimes reveals even more interesting places where to buy things. (I wish AWS wasn't that popular though...)
  - r00fus 7y ago
    I try to avoid Amazon when it's feasible. Care to list alternatives worth mentioning? Google express/shopping was great until it really just fell off a cliff a year or two ago.
    - blablabla123 7y ago
      For Video on demand apart from iTunes, Netflix there are plenty of niche websites especially for art house movies, criterionchannel.com is probably the largest though. And for the German market for example there is book delivery from thalia.de which can deliver via mail or to a book shop. (And momox.de for used book buy/sell - I stopped selling books on Amazon years ago because it's just too much effort, Momox has a simple bulk preparation)
      - r00fus 7y ago
        Thanks but I'm more concerned about daily basics and groceries - both areas where Amazon is recently ascendant.
        blablabla123 7y ago
        Yeah ok, not sure about that. I basically try the online shopping functions that the supermarket/drug store chains offer that I would normally enjoy visiting in person. (But I have to plan in advance for that) Also I'm trying Hello Fresh soon. But I mean when there is no other alternative, it would probably be exaggerated to not buy at Amazon in the current situation...
txcwpalpha 7y ago
Amazon warehouse workers get $17/hr starting wage (and a full 2x ($34/hr!!) overtime), with no experience/education needed and almost no barrier to getting the job (except physical capability to lift a box), as well as the best health insurance I've ever heard of entry-level manual laborers getting, as well as education budgets to be used on any higher level education they want. Obviously warehouse work isn't glamorous and they are under a lot of pressure and there's nothing wrong with increased scrutiny on how they are treated, but it's also getting exhausting when people act like Amazon FC workers are treated like slaves.
- dbg31415 7y ago
  Spot on. Amazon was able to hire over 100k employees in the last month. They did that by providing the best possible choice for those people -- the people wanted to work there. Sure, all for transparency, but let's be real. This job is a lot better than flipping burgers or mowing a road ditch. People are still lining up to work at Amazon. It's easy to be like, "Hey look at the big evil company!" but the truth of the matter is Amazon is one of the best places for low-skilled workers to find employment.
  - 908087 7y ago
    "Sure, the bread I'm handing out is moldy.. but these people who have been starving to death are still lining up to eat it!"
- elliekelly 7y ago
  IMO it isn’t really relevant how much they’re paid or what the educational requirements. It’s never okay to treat people the way Amazon treats warehouse workers. If you (and the government) consider your business “essential” you simply have to take appropriate precautions to protect the health and safety of those people who are carrying out essential duties. I understand there are supply shortages around the world but Amazon isn’t even trying to make a good faith effort to protect their people. They’re doing the opposite, it seems. Fighting their employees every step of the way.
  - 7y ago
throwawaysea 7y ago
What are you even talking about? Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum (double federal minimum wage), with benefits, with double overtime pay. This is for totally unskilled and undifferentiated labor. Among warehouse jobs, Amazon is industry leading in wages. Walmart pays, I believe, a minimum of $11/hour. If people don't want to work in either of these places, they don't have to. It's a voluntary system. But clearly people want to work there and prefer that to the challenge of (for example) starting their own business. I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. Their blog mentions many of these changes and the seem reasonable and practical: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-prioritizes-health-and-safety-while-fulfilling-customer-orders https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit.... Obviously, there are limits to what a company can do with a physical operation like this. There are limits to the distancing that can be practiced. Equipment like PPEs are facing huge shortages right now and so obviously it isn't reasonable to expect that Amazon magically can summon up hundreds of thousands of N95 masks that should likely be going to healthcare workers first. Ultimately, if people don't want to take the risk of working during this time, that's up to them - they are free to leave voluntarily. All this outrage seems falsely amplified, and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda.
- Mtinie 7y ago
  "[...]and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda." That may be true, though I suspect it's equally plausible that this outrage is indicative of a nakedly capitalistic agenda promoted by Amazon's competitors via proxies. I don't see any reason why it can't be both. Edit: To clarify, I should have ended my statement with "...why it can't be both, in addition to legitimate concerns."
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  >Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum Until the end of April, when the $2 per hour "bonus" goes away. >I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. It does appear that employees are not being punished for things like adequately washing their hands or getting sick for the time being. They were being punished for these things at the start of the year, and that blog makes it sound like they will be punished for them again when the pandemic is over.

supernova87a 7y ago

I wish them good luck with that, when there's 15% unemployment.

claudeganon 7y ago
This is the risk people have always taken to try and make things better for everyone. If everyone had your sentiment, instead of the courage to do things like this, people would still be working 7 days a week, alongside their children.
tareqak 7y ago
An unemployment rate of 15% cuts both ways. Mass walkouts and mass resignations are still disruptive especially if it takes time to onboard new employees.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  How does a high unemployment rate cut both ways? Seems like it only favors the employer — they'll have an easier time hiring new employees, and employees will have a harder time finding other jobs. Is there a way in which a high unemployment rate gives the employees leverage? I can see walkouts happening right now because Amazon employees know the company is under scrutiny and therefore less likely to fire them. But I doubt many people will 'put their money where their mouth is' and actually resign when the economy is doing poorly and there are very few jobs (and lots of job seekers).
  - tareqak 7y ago
    With a high enough unemployment rate, businesses might have trouble getting anything done because outside conditions start resembling a general strike. In addition, with a high enough unemployment rate, the customers of a business might not be able to afford the corresponding goods or services even if they are sold at cost. Grinding a battered economy to halt is easier.
  - decebalus1 7y ago
    Amazon is a high volume low margins business. Mass walkouts are very disruptive. Everything stopping 'the machine' translates into direct revenue loss. Amazon went to great lengths in making the machine resilient by having people be more expendable but we're still not at the point in which if a lot of people walk out at the same time, there's an army of scabs in standby to pick up the work and keep things going. If this goes viral and a lot of workers do it at the same time, it can be catastrophic.

tareqak 7y ago

> Previously, Costa said Amazon attempted to intervene in the group’s efforts to organize the panel by deleting invitations sent to other workers internally, which the group claims were accepted by more than 1,500 employees. It’s Amazon’s internal network, and Amazon’s email system, so they have the full right to control what happens on their resources. At the same time, I find that deleting the an email after it has been sent by the sender unknown to the sender to be a kind of gaslighting, and dystopian. Having a policy to not organize using work resources might be harsh, but at least it is more transparent as in the proverbial line is drawn in the proverbial sand.

claudeganon 7y ago
No, actually, none of that is true under US labor law. People can organize at their workplaces. It’s a protected action.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  You can organize at your workplace, but you don't have a right to use work resources to do it. (Workers used to have the right to use their work email, but the NLRB has recently overturned that precedent.)
  - txcwpalpha 7y ago
    There's also stipulations on when and where you can organize at your workplace. For example, putting up noticed about a union meeting on the bulletin board in the breakroom is allowed, but you can't put that same notice on a factory floor. You also can talk about organizing at work, but only if it's outside of work hours (you can't be on the clock and using that time to talk about organizing).
  - kennywinker 7y ago
    Calling work email a "resource" seems a little dubious to me. I.e. if I use office stationary to write my union manifesto, they have to buy more stationary. If I send an email they don't have to buy more of anything. Especially in the world we live in right now - email and other work-hosted communications platforms are not a resource provided by work, they are the WORKPLACE.

jsjddbbwj 7y ago

Can't you filter out this kind of employees using basic social network screening? They are likely to be very outspoken

decebalus1 7y ago
what 'kind' of employees are you referring to, exactly?
- vkou 7y ago
  Ones that take advantage of their federal right to organize.
btilly 7y ago
In many states, no. See https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-potential-employers-check-your-facebook-page.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-potential-employ... for a quick overview of the legal reasons why not.
mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
I think you might be surprised by their level of outspokenness on social media or lack thereof. Are you familiar with the concept of the "silent majority"?
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  It's damn near impossible to differentiate a "silent majority" from an "apathetic majority" at scale. Edit: I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding my observation.
  - warkdarrior 7y ago
    The apathy is too damn high.
  - mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
    I think I used that term incorrectly. What I meant was that there are PLENTY of people who are not outspoken on social media and yet still not only have opinions but are willing to take action in the physical world to back them up, like these Amazon employees here.

tinyhouse 7y ago

The headline talks about protest treatment of warehouse workers but the actual article talks also about other things like climate criss. I'm a bit surprised since Bezos' annual letter that was published yesterday was heavily focused on these things.

throwawaysea 7y ago
These types of activists try to tie all these issues together using a lot of mental gymnastics, to try and build a coalition or to leverage the motivation behind one cause (like climate) to support another cause (like unionization). It's illogical, but it is a strategy commonly used because it is effective, even if disingenuous.
- tick_tock_tick 7y ago
  I disagree that it works. Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter are two movements that lost most of their power and presence due to muddling their core message.
  - keanzu 7y ago
    Intersectionality is a theoretical framework for understanding how aspects of one's social and political identities (gender, race, class, sexuality, ability, etc.) might combine to create unique modes of discrimination. It aims to broaden the agenda of the first waves of feminism, which largely focused on the experiences of white, middle-class women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

sdffdsfdsfsddsf 7y ago

"The group, Amazon Employees for Climate Justice" That's hardly "Amazon employees", it's just a couple of people who are bonkers and happen to be Amazon employees. Fake news headline.

Aaronstotle 7y ago

While I'm glad that Amazon corporate employees are doing something to show solidarity, this seems more like a feel good activity for the corporate employees. This is similar to the Google walkout, what difference does it make if you leave work for one day, when everyone knows you're going to be at work the following day? If you do work at one of these companies, I would love to hear from you, I don't mean to be snarky/rude, but I sincerely don't see how walking out is helpful to anyone.

TomMckenny 7y ago

As an important aside, I'm sure everyone has noticed that grocery store clerks aren't allowed to wear masks in practice. I'm sure everyone has noticed quite a few other jobs where this is so. It seems endangering the lives of certain kinds of workers is nearly universal. Not to excuse them but I imagine Amazon has a lot of company in this[1]. I am very glad at least Amazon employeesare doing something about it. [1]https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/16/coronavirus-worker-at-safeway-distribution-center-in-tracy-dies-of-covid-19-complications/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/16/coronavirus-worker-at...

jb775 7y ago

It's about time for unions to make a comeback.

hn_user_77 7y ago

People are acting like these are coal mine workers. After reading about their high starting wage and decent benefits, it's hard to make an argument that they are mistreated.

Ratiofarmings 7y ago

It's nice that they thank their "essential workers" now. Meanwhile all the essential workers are like. Cool. Where is the money though. A "thanks" gives you a warm feeling, but doesn't pay the bills.

jader201 7y ago

I’ve been monitoring Amazon’s stocks through this whole crisis, and how they’re going through the roof while almost all others are taking huge losses. I can’t help but wonder if it will someday implode from the terrible, unsustainable conditions their workers seem to be facing — even prior to the pandemic, but exacerbated by it — and Amazon’s complete dismissal of it. And this isn’t even including the increasingly poor state of consumer trust in reviews, third party resellers, counterfeit products, and the myriad of ways resellers can game the system. All of which Amazon also seems to continue to dismiss as if it’s immune to the long-term impacts.

kaesar14 7y ago
As long as people continue to move their shopping online, I'm convinced no maltreatment of employees considered to be "working class" will stop people from making their purchases, especially with the convenience and price. Amazing considering the backlash against Uber for sexual harassment of female upper-middle to upper class white collar workers. Almost destroyed the company in the US. But the persistent abuse of thousands of working people - NOTHING!
mritun 7y ago
Amazon pays their workers 60% more than Walmart and almost double of other grocery stores. The working conditions are better, and they are hiring like crazy. There are a lot of short sellers around and not all news pieces are factual. Look for amazon job applications sites to see the reality vs other companies and then make up your mind.