10 ms·

Do geeks always need something to bitch about? Microsoft is at least making an effort to do as most people wish, getting users to upgrade from IE6.

SwellJoe 16y ago
I want them to upgrade to a modern browser. IE8 aint one.
- coderdude 16y ago
  IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 is out (it doesn't work on their 10 year old operating system). Edit: So much idealism in this thread and not enough people being realistic. Here are the facts: -Web developers hate IE. All versions of it. -We live in a world with IE. -Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. -It IS NOT in their interest to do so. -The next best thing is for them to suggest IE8 and then IE9. -It is in the users' best interest who don't know any better and it is in Web developers' best interest that people are at least using something better than IE6 or IE7 -Windows XP is 10 years old. -The only thing that's going to be holding back users from upgrading to IE9 is refusal to upgrade their decade-old operating system. -It would be like people being mad at Apple because the latest version of Safari isn't compatible with OS9.
  - MiguelHudnandez 16y ago
    IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. It'd be like making a trip to a gas station and filling up to half a tank. Because half a tank is better than an empty tank, right? But... while you're going to all that trouble, why not top it off? Of course this strategy is good for Microsoft, but web designers should be doing what's good for the web.
    - coderdude 16y ago
      >IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. As I said in an earlier comment, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to move people off Microsoft browsers but it is in developers' best interest to have them move to at least IE8. It's a much better browser that requires very little hackery to get layouts working on. When people finally stop dragging their feet and upgrade their decade old OS then we will have a better Web experience. Don't get on Microsoft about this, blame the people who refuse to upgrade their software.
      - EGreg 16y ago
        But it's in the developers' even BETTER interest to move them to Chrome or Firefox. Why wouldn't they just install this? http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/ http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/ Microsoft is obviously doing this to keep IE relevant.
        coderdude 16y ago
        I know it's in developers' even better interest to have all users using Chrome or Firefox. I've said this numerous times and I don't think anyone is arguing against that. But there isn't going to be a link on Microsoft's site to Firefox. I can't figure out why people keep bringing this up. It's not like it hasn't occurred to me -- I'm a designer too. I know how much it sucks fixing IE problems in layouts. What I also know is that there are waaay fewer problems with IE8 than with IE6 and since this is the best we can hope for that's what I'm trying to convey here.
        jasonlotito 16y ago
        If IE wasn't relevant, this wouldn't be a discussion here.
  - SwellJoe 16y ago
    Somehow the Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Opera teams manage to provide a modern browser on Windows XP. This isn't about "finding something to complain about". I want a modern web, and I want Microsoft to get out of the way of that happening.
    - coderdude 16y ago
      I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. IE9 relies on parts of Windows that just don't exist in XP. Windows XP is ancient by software standards. Sure, Chrome et al. work in all operating systems, but you're upset at Microsoft because they don't want to support an operating system that they want people off of already. It's their decision and I'm glad they want people to upgrade. People got mad because users didn't want to get off of Windows 98 because of how dated it had become but fewer people are upset at the "Windows XP is good for a lifetime" crowd. IE9 is coming and it's much better. When the people holding back on upgrading finally upgrade then you'll have your better Web.
      - texel 16y ago
        That's exactly the point- since they're holding off on upgrading their OS, potentially for a much longer time, they won't even have the option of updating their web browser. An OS upgrade is a much more monumental decision than a browser upgrade, and the inertia is much greater. At any rate, the fact that IE9 can't backport parts of its OS dependencies is kind of an implementation detail. We're saying Webkit has no problems providing a self-contained modern browsing experience, so IE9 doesn't have to be any different.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        coderdude 16y ago
        So the problem is actually users refusing to upgrade their OS, not Microsoft not supporting XP after 10 years. It seems like we jump on people for not upgrading anything -- except when it comes to their OS.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6 A brick is leaps and bounds better than IE6 I learned not to attribute to malice what could be explained by incompetence, but, sadly, incompetence alone cannot explain a company the size of Microsoft being unable to offer a modern standards-compliant browser.
    - coderdude 16y ago
      >A brick is leaps and bounds better than IE6 That's why it's great news that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to at least IE8. They will have IE9 once they upgrade their ancient OS as well. We all know how you feel about Microsoft. Your comment being down-voted into oblivion at the bottom of this page is a good show of how you're approaching my comment. Microsoft is making good progress here.
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        > That's why it's great news that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to at least IE8. Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. > They will have IE9 once they upgrade their ancient OS as well. After they failed miserably to move Windows users out of IE6, forgive me if I am a little skeptical when they suggest the move from IE7 and IE8 to IE9 will be an easy one.
        coderdude 16y ago
        >Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. This isn't some utopia where we can all get what we want. If I had my way there would be no IEs. I hate Internet Explorer. The reality of the situation though is that IE8 is the best option available [for people who don't know any better] in the world we live in. IE9 will soon be the best option for people who have an up-to-date operating system. Then we can all whine about XP users refusing to upgrade their old software so that we can also have more up-to-date browsers surfing the Web. >After they failed miserably to move Windows users out of IE6, forgive me if I am a little skeptical when they suggest the move from IE7 and IE8 to IE9 will be an easy one. Most users have IE8 already. The move to IE9 won't take as long as you think. I'd like to know where you got the impression that Microsoft failed to move huge swathes of people over to IE8. IE is installed via automatic updates.
  - albemuth 16y ago
    >In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right Yes, but that is today. As the web moves forward and these users are stuck on IE8 we have the same problem again.
  - wheels 16y ago
    -Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I really don't understand the benefit of IE having its own rendering engine. While I can't imagine MS abandoning IE, I can't see any business reason (other than hubris) for them maintaining a worst-of-breed rendering and JS engine at great cost to themselves. (And just for the record, basically agree with you on all points.)
    - statictype 16y ago
      Because a lot of companies rely on IE's rendering engine. There are a lot of sites (mostly internal but external as well) that use technologies like ActiveX which only work on IE's engine. For example, almost every site served up by an ip camera uses an activex plugin to view video.
      - wheels 16y ago
        I don't see any reason why ActiveX couldn't be bolted on to Webkit. As for backward compatibility they update their engine all of the time; perhaps quirks mode could be left as the old engine.
    - ryanwatkins 16y ago
      I guess you missed the articles here about about Microsoft's massive commitment to backward compatibility and why they do it? From just the other day :http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281045 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281045 and http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html Ditching the current rendering engine would break a ton of apps.
      - alanh 16y ago
        Those “web” apps are then already broken, by definition.
        bzbarsky 16y ago
        They are broken from the _user's_ perspective, yes. They are not necessarily broken from the app developer's perspective. Changing IE so as to break them would cause MS a good bit of grief (and depending on the contracts they have with people might cost them money directly).
  - jiffifrazik 16y ago
    You know Safari DOES support XP? No one uses OS 9 anymore. Loads use XP. Get it? It's Microsoft's mess to clean up, and browser-wise, three separate efforts can do it! If Microsoft can't, they should pass the ball to someone who can. Anything else hurts the web. You may have posted the most one-sided, thick-skulled, baseless comment I've ever seen on HN.
  - patrickaljord 16y ago
    > In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. You're kidding, right?
  - drdaeman 16y ago
    > Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I've heard (I don't own or use Windows) that they were legally forced to enable choice in Windows (like shown on screenshots at http://www.freeemailtutorials.com/microsoftWindows/defaultWebBrowserOnWindowsXP.cwd http://www.freeemailtutorials.com/microsoftWindows/defaultWe...)
- pyre 16y ago
  Would you rather have to support IE6 or IE8 in your webapp?
alexyim 16y ago
I disagree. I think he mentions a really valid point. Getting users to upgrade from IE6 is good thing, but it's even better to upgrade to Firefox or Chrome instead of IE8.
- coderdude 16y ago
  How is that a valid point? In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Even if it's good for the users, it's their users, and it's entirely logical for them to want to keep them.
  - alexyim 16y ago
    Ah I see. And I agree with that. I meant he raises a good point on whether (from a web developer's perspective) you should use this Microsoft banner at all.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandoning MeeGo will improve Nokia's). As it is, Microsoft does whatever benefits them, regardless of how much it does hurt everybody else.
    - coderdude 16y ago
      The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it." >Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line Are you just anti-Microsoft trolling? This doesn't follow any kind of logic. "They would sure benefit from having millions of users not use their Web browser." What?
Tudisco 16y ago
Geeks are always bitching. I think this is better than doing nothing. They can't exactly erase the past. I think its a step in the right direction. IE9 is going to be better but still not perfect. But, again, at least its better. I am all for better. Though I would link users to alternative browser... why can't the complaining geeks just use their own banner.
originalgeek 16y ago
Careful with painting us all with the wide brush. We don't all like to bitch about stuff that, really, is beyond our control.
sjs 16y ago
Your HN profile says you love technology and the Internet but your comment doesn't support that claim at all. We don't just want people off IE6, we want people on modern browsers. Everyone needs something to bitch about. You bitching about how geeks need something to bitch about is a prime example, not to mention all of us bitching about you bitching about our bitching.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  > Your HN profile says you love technology and the Internet but your comment doesn't support that claim at all. We don't just want people off IE6, we want people on modern browsers. The problem is people are making a big deal out of MS suggesting developers encourage users to upgrade to IE8. Of course MS is going to say that. Developers are big boys and girls, however, and if they want, they can suggest other browsers as well... like they've been doing for years now. So, this response to MS is worthless. It's saying something everyone who cares already knows about, and encourages those who don't know to do something. Yes, the best bet would be if everyone switched over to Firefox, open and free standards, cherry pie for everyone, no patents, along with coffee and tea. Everyone running the same standard OS that takes care of updating for you. But that's not going to happen. Basically: MS encourages people to move off IE6 to IE8. These are for people who are still on IE6... people who probably don't know Mozilla, don't use Apple, and have no clue who Opera is. Google Chrome makes no sense. Geek gets upset they suggest IE8 and posts a worthless self-masturbatory rant about how MS wants people to use IE over FF, O, or Webkit. This post then gets posted to HN, where, but some odd miracle, it sparks two types of posters. Those who are happy MS is helping get people off IE6. Thank god for small miracles. Then those who are pretty much adding nothing to the discussion by repeating what the original post said. HN's version of AOL's "me too". Yes. I'm bitching.
- ElliotH 16y ago
  Your HN profile says that you have a high karma and a high average comment score. This implies you know the culture of the site quite well. It would be really nice if you tried to uphold the quality of conversation by avoiding personal attacks.
astrodust 16y ago
From one frying pan to another.

SwellJoe 16y ago

I want them to upgrade to a modern browser. IE8 aint one.

coderdude 16y ago
IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 is out (it doesn't work on their 10 year old operating system). Edit: So much idealism in this thread and not enough people being realistic. Here are the facts: -Web developers hate IE. All versions of it. -We live in a world with IE. -Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. -It IS NOT in their interest to do so. -The next best thing is for them to suggest IE8 and then IE9. -It is in the users' best interest who don't know any better and it is in Web developers' best interest that people are at least using something better than IE6 or IE7 -Windows XP is 10 years old. -The only thing that's going to be holding back users from upgrading to IE9 is refusal to upgrade their decade-old operating system. -It would be like people being mad at Apple because the latest version of Safari isn't compatible with OS9.
- MiguelHudnandez 16y ago
  IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. It'd be like making a trip to a gas station and filling up to half a tank. Because half a tank is better than an empty tank, right? But... while you're going to all that trouble, why not top it off? Of course this strategy is good for Microsoft, but web designers should be doing what's good for the web.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    >IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. As I said in an earlier comment, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to move people off Microsoft browsers but it is in developers' best interest to have them move to at least IE8. It's a much better browser that requires very little hackery to get layouts working on. When people finally stop dragging their feet and upgrade their decade old OS then we will have a better Web experience. Don't get on Microsoft about this, blame the people who refuse to upgrade their software.
    - EGreg 16y ago
      But it's in the developers' even BETTER interest to move them to Chrome or Firefox. Why wouldn't they just install this? http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/ http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/ Microsoft is obviously doing this to keep IE relevant.
      - coderdude 16y ago
        I know it's in developers' even better interest to have all users using Chrome or Firefox. I've said this numerous times and I don't think anyone is arguing against that. But there isn't going to be a link on Microsoft's site to Firefox. I can't figure out why people keep bringing this up. It's not like it hasn't occurred to me -- I'm a designer too. I know how much it sucks fixing IE problems in layouts. What I also know is that there are waaay fewer problems with IE8 than with IE6 and since this is the best we can hope for that's what I'm trying to convey here.
      - jasonlotito 16y ago
        If IE wasn't relevant, this wouldn't be a discussion here.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  Somehow the Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Opera teams manage to provide a modern browser on Windows XP. This isn't about "finding something to complain about". I want a modern web, and I want Microsoft to get out of the way of that happening.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. IE9 relies on parts of Windows that just don't exist in XP. Windows XP is ancient by software standards. Sure, Chrome et al. work in all operating systems, but you're upset at Microsoft because they don't want to support an operating system that they want people off of already. It's their decision and I'm glad they want people to upgrade. People got mad because users didn't want to get off of Windows 98 because of how dated it had become but fewer people are upset at the "Windows XP is good for a lifetime" crowd. IE9 is coming and it's much better. When the people holding back on upgrading finally upgrade then you'll have your better Web.
    - texel 16y ago
      That's exactly the point- since they're holding off on upgrading their OS, potentially for a much longer time, they won't even have the option of updating their web browser. An OS upgrade is a much more monumental decision than a browser upgrade, and the inertia is much greater. At any rate, the fact that IE9 can't backport parts of its OS dependencies is kind of an implementation detail. We're saying Webkit has no problems providing a self-contained modern browsing experience, so IE9 doesn't have to be any different.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - coderdude 16y ago
        So the problem is actually users refusing to upgrade their OS, not Microsoft not supporting XP after 10 years. It seems like we jump on people for not upgrading anything -- except when it comes to their OS.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6 A brick is leaps and bounds better than IE6 I learned not to attribute to malice what could be explained by incompetence, but, sadly, incompetence alone cannot explain a company the size of Microsoft being unable to offer a modern standards-compliant browser.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    >A brick is leaps and bounds better than IE6 That's why it's great news that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to at least IE8. They will have IE9 once they upgrade their ancient OS as well. We all know how you feel about Microsoft. Your comment being down-voted into oblivion at the bottom of this page is a good show of how you're approaching my comment. Microsoft is making good progress here.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > That's why it's great news that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to at least IE8. Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. > They will have IE9 once they upgrade their ancient OS as well. After they failed miserably to move Windows users out of IE6, forgive me if I am a little skeptical when they suggest the move from IE7 and IE8 to IE9 will be an easy one.
      - coderdude 16y ago
        >Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. This isn't some utopia where we can all get what we want. If I had my way there would be no IEs. I hate Internet Explorer. The reality of the situation though is that IE8 is the best option available [for people who don't know any better] in the world we live in. IE9 will soon be the best option for people who have an up-to-date operating system. Then we can all whine about XP users refusing to upgrade their old software so that we can also have more up-to-date browsers surfing the Web. >After they failed miserably to move Windows users out of IE6, forgive me if I am a little skeptical when they suggest the move from IE7 and IE8 to IE9 will be an easy one. Most users have IE8 already. The move to IE9 won't take as long as you think. I'd like to know where you got the impression that Microsoft failed to move huge swathes of people over to IE8. IE is installed via automatic updates.
- albemuth 16y ago
  >In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right Yes, but that is today. As the web moves forward and these users are stuck on IE8 we have the same problem again.
- wheels 16y ago
  -Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I really don't understand the benefit of IE having its own rendering engine. While I can't imagine MS abandoning IE, I can't see any business reason (other than hubris) for them maintaining a worst-of-breed rendering and JS engine at great cost to themselves. (And just for the record, basically agree with you on all points.)
  - statictype 16y ago
    Because a lot of companies rely on IE's rendering engine. There are a lot of sites (mostly internal but external as well) that use technologies like ActiveX which only work on IE's engine. For example, almost every site served up by an ip camera uses an activex plugin to view video.
    - wheels 16y ago
      I don't see any reason why ActiveX couldn't be bolted on to Webkit. As for backward compatibility they update their engine all of the time; perhaps quirks mode could be left as the old engine.
  - ryanwatkins 16y ago
    I guess you missed the articles here about about Microsoft's massive commitment to backward compatibility and why they do it? From just the other day :http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281045 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281045 and http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html Ditching the current rendering engine would break a ton of apps.
    - alanh 16y ago
      Those “web” apps are then already broken, by definition.
      - bzbarsky 16y ago
        They are broken from the _user's_ perspective, yes. They are not necessarily broken from the app developer's perspective. Changing IE so as to break them would cause MS a good bit of grief (and depending on the contracts they have with people might cost them money directly).
- jiffifrazik 16y ago
  You know Safari DOES support XP? No one uses OS 9 anymore. Loads use XP. Get it? It's Microsoft's mess to clean up, and browser-wise, three separate efforts can do it! If Microsoft can't, they should pass the ball to someone who can. Anything else hurts the web. You may have posted the most one-sided, thick-skulled, baseless comment I've ever seen on HN.
- patrickaljord 16y ago
  > In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. You're kidding, right?
- drdaeman 16y ago
  > Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I've heard (I don't own or use Windows) that they were legally forced to enable choice in Windows (like shown on screenshots at http://www.freeemailtutorials.com/microsoftWindows/defaultWebBrowserOnWindowsXP.cwd http://www.freeemailtutorials.com/microsoftWindows/defaultWe...)
pyre 16y ago
Would you rather have to support IE6 or IE8 in your webapp?

alexyim 16y ago

I disagree. I think he mentions a really valid point. Getting users to upgrade from IE6 is good thing, but it's even better to upgrade to Firefox or Chrome instead of IE8.

coderdude 16y ago
How is that a valid point? In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Even if it's good for the users, it's their users, and it's entirely logical for them to want to keep them.
- alexyim 16y ago
  Ah I see. And I agree with that. I meant he raises a good point on whether (from a web developer's perspective) you should use this Microsoft banner at all.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandoning MeeGo will improve Nokia's). As it is, Microsoft does whatever benefits them, regardless of how much it does hurt everybody else.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it." >Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line Are you just anti-Microsoft trolling? This doesn't follow any kind of logic. "They would sure benefit from having millions of users not use their Web browser." What?

Tudisco 16y ago

Geeks are always bitching. I think this is better than doing nothing. They can't exactly erase the past. I think its a step in the right direction. IE9 is going to be better but still not perfect. But, again, at least its better. I am all for better. Though I would link users to alternative browser... why can't the complaining geeks just use their own banner.

originalgeek 16y ago

Careful with painting us all with the wide brush. We don't all like to bitch about stuff that, really, is beyond our control.

sjs 16y ago

Your HN profile says you love technology and the Internet but your comment doesn't support that claim at all. We don't just want people off IE6, we want people on modern browsers. Everyone needs something to bitch about. You bitching about how geeks need something to bitch about is a prime example, not to mention all of us bitching about you bitching about our bitching.

jasonlotito 16y ago
> Your HN profile says you love technology and the Internet but your comment doesn't support that claim at all. We don't just want people off IE6, we want people on modern browsers. The problem is people are making a big deal out of MS suggesting developers encourage users to upgrade to IE8. Of course MS is going to say that. Developers are big boys and girls, however, and if they want, they can suggest other browsers as well... like they've been doing for years now. So, this response to MS is worthless. It's saying something everyone who cares already knows about, and encourages those who don't know to do something. Yes, the best bet would be if everyone switched over to Firefox, open and free standards, cherry pie for everyone, no patents, along with coffee and tea. Everyone running the same standard OS that takes care of updating for you. But that's not going to happen. Basically: MS encourages people to move off IE6 to IE8. These are for people who are still on IE6... people who probably don't know Mozilla, don't use Apple, and have no clue who Opera is. Google Chrome makes no sense. Geek gets upset they suggest IE8 and posts a worthless self-masturbatory rant about how MS wants people to use IE over FF, O, or Webkit. This post then gets posted to HN, where, but some odd miracle, it sparks two types of posters. Those who are happy MS is helping get people off IE6. Thank god for small miracles. Then those who are pretty much adding nothing to the discussion by repeating what the original post said. HN's version of AOL's "me too". Yes. I'm bitching.
ElliotH 16y ago
Your HN profile says that you have a high karma and a high average comment score. This implies you know the culture of the site quite well. It would be really nice if you tried to uphold the quality of conversation by avoiding personal attacks.

astrodust 16y ago

From one frying pan to another.