5 ms·

And as far as I can tell that’s America only, nevermind Europe and Australia...

ajdlinux 7y ago
Or non-Western countries! And the list is just startups, too - they're obviously more vulnerable in many ways to financial shocks than large companies, but large corporate layoffs are going to be where the big numbers are.
riffraff 7y ago
Australia apparently saw a minor rise in employment[0] for now. https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/australia-unexpectedly-adds-jobs-unemployment-edges-up-to-52-25/ar-BB12GV7c https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/australia-unexpect...
- aetherspawn 7y ago
  Our government basically hasn't shut down our economy. To quote, "all jobs are essential services".
  - ratww 7y ago
    This is good news, considering they've apparently been also able to reduce the number of new confirmed cases [1]. [1] https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/ https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/
    - akdor1154 7y ago
      Yep. social gatherings / hospitality industry / gyms etc are banned, and anyone who can work from home is doing so, but you still can leave your house for "essential reasons", e.g. exercise, buying takeaway lunch every day. many retail stores and public transport are still functioning. I think it's our - low density - government actually listening to scientists and reacting quickly and non-ideologically.
      - squiggleblaz 7y ago
        Density differences are overblown. No-one is catching coronavirus in the uninhabited deserts or cattle stations hours from the nearest town. They catch it in crowded public transport vehicles and in grocery stores. The government responding quickly and non-ideologically is the number one reason why Australia is doing good and the rest of the west is doing so badly. Whether it's the ideology of freedom of travel or the ideology of the economy before health, it has hurt other nations whereas Australia's ideology of pragmatism (and our neverending experience with many other crises and disasters) has helped.
        somishere 7y ago
        pragmatic in that a party with your 20 closest mates is probably, no definitely worth that $1000 fine? Could be a bit soon to be making grandiose rationalisations on the (abundant) benefits of the Australian gaze. there's a way to go yet.
        squiggleblaz 7y ago
        Pff. Every country has people breaking the law. I never said Australians universally follow laws they expect to be enforced, but for that to be a big deal you would have to demonstrate people universally following laws they don't expect to be enforced in some other place. I tell you, it doesn't happen. Leadership in the early days of the crisis made a huge difference. The early days of the crisis now are passed us, so whatever happens next it is about perseverance - a completely different matter and something a country does not excel at if it goes through prime minister faster than a pub goes through sixpacks.
        somishere 7y ago
        Yes, yes. Tho I guess it totally depends on your definition of leadership. IMO the handling has been pretty average. I could make a list, but I won't. Instead I'll focus on the positives and note that the one commendable thing that the federal government has done in this crisis is to reach deep into their mothballed hip-pocket and squeeze out a few billion pineapples. I fully appreciate how hard that must have been, given their fixation on 'the black'. And all with only half a whinge.
  - squiggleblaz 7y ago
    I'm an Australian living in Europe. What's it actually like there? It sounds like you're under strict lockdown but everyone seems to be saying the government is doing a terrible job (even though the test positive rate is low and the relative number of cases, even the absolute number of cases, is low). Here you say the economy is still humming along but other people say there's queues outside of Centrelink and down the street and around the corner. Are shops like Bunnings and Big W still open? Bike shops? Hobby stores? Gift shops? These are considered non essential here in Germany some of which has caused me difficulty and some of which have not (somewhere may be non essential this week, but over a long enough period of time, everywhere is essential; we just moved a fortnight before the lockdown and fortunately I bought the things I needed for a new home just before they were shut down as non-essential). Restaurants I gather are closed to in house meals same as here. But same as here they're open for takeaway. Factories and such businesses were closed in Italy, but I don't think they were shut down here. Cinemas I take it are closed. Prisons in Victoria at least do not accept inperson visitors which causes prisoners severe isolation but is obviously better then getting them all infected. I understand prisoners are still working - if they're isolated and healthy I guess there's no reason to stop them from working.
    - ssfivy 7y ago
      Australian in Sydney here. Most retail shops are closed. A lot of restaurants and cafes are closed. All events cancelled. So there's a lot of casuals / partimers who don't have any work anymore. Bunnings, BigW, Kmart, all supermarkets are open with social distancing and limiting people in the store. Not sure a bout bike stores. Hobbyco in QVB is still open. A lot of stores closed their retail but are still doing online orders. Basically Australia uses a combination of blacklist and a whitelist system. Some places where people gather like gyms and pubs are forced to close, and restaurants are forced to takeaway-only. You also have a whitelist on reasons to come outside of your home, which still include work. My company was good - we spend a week preparing and now almost everyone is working from home, which is probably unusual considering we work in embedded systems. I have several boxes of hardware in my room with me now.
      - FridgeSeal 7y ago
- nostrebored 7y ago
  Of my complex of 15 people, 14 were employed prior to coronavirus. Other than my wife and I, only one other person in our complex still has a job. Expect those numbers to change. A lot.
dreen 7y ago
In UK employees are more likely to get furloughed, where they are paid 80% of their salary from the government, do not work but keep their job.
- donkeyd 7y ago
  In the Netherlands similar. Government pays 90%, employer the other 10% and can't fire anyone.
  - ratww 7y ago
    Same with Germany. We call it Kurzarbeit. The company I'm in hasn't fired anyone and is safe. Some neighboring countries have similar programs.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    In Poland you get fuck all. Government kept promising 40% contribution but doesn't say where you're supposed to find the other 60% from. So companies are letting go of people left and right.
  - simon1573 7y ago
    Sweden too, but government "only" pays 60% IIRC. Employer pays the rest but there has also been some ease on how much tax an employer has to pay for each employee.
  - Scarblac 7y ago
    But it's doubtful how long they can keep that up for. Some months, sure. But not years, and the virus is going to stick around for a while. I think it's just a delay.
    - Loughla 7y ago
      It strikes me as a good play, if we were living in times that were normal. Take 2019 for instance. If that scheme existed then, without any pandemic, it would be a great way to soften the exit and allow folks time to find new jobs. But the world we're in now, not so much. It's pulling the band-aid off slower, and my take is, waiting for a hail-mary play when someone magically comes up with a solution for this problem. My interpretation of all of this waves hand around at world leaders is that they genuinely believe science and technology work like magic, and will come up with something, soon.

Or non-Western countries! And the list is just startups, too - they're obviously more vulnerable in many ways to financial shocks than large companies, but large corporate layoffs are going to be where the big numbers are.

riffraff 7y ago

Australia apparently saw a minor rise in employment[0] for now. https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/australia-unexpectedly-adds-jobs-unemployment-edges-up-to-52-25/ar-BB12GV7c https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/australia-unexpect...

aetherspawn 7y ago
Our government basically hasn't shut down our economy. To quote, "all jobs are essential services".
- ratww 7y ago
  This is good news, considering they've apparently been also able to reduce the number of new confirmed cases [1]. [1] https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/ https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/
  - akdor1154 7y ago
    Yep. social gatherings / hospitality industry / gyms etc are banned, and anyone who can work from home is doing so, but you still can leave your house for "essential reasons", e.g. exercise, buying takeaway lunch every day. many retail stores and public transport are still functioning. I think it's our - low density - government actually listening to scientists and reacting quickly and non-ideologically.
    - squiggleblaz 7y ago
      Density differences are overblown. No-one is catching coronavirus in the uninhabited deserts or cattle stations hours from the nearest town. They catch it in crowded public transport vehicles and in grocery stores. The government responding quickly and non-ideologically is the number one reason why Australia is doing good and the rest of the west is doing so badly. Whether it's the ideology of freedom of travel or the ideology of the economy before health, it has hurt other nations whereas Australia's ideology of pragmatism (and our neverending experience with many other crises and disasters) has helped.
      - somishere 7y ago
        pragmatic in that a party with your 20 closest mates is probably, no definitely worth that $1000 fine? Could be a bit soon to be making grandiose rationalisations on the (abundant) benefits of the Australian gaze. there's a way to go yet.
        squiggleblaz 7y ago
        Pff. Every country has people breaking the law. I never said Australians universally follow laws they expect to be enforced, but for that to be a big deal you would have to demonstrate people universally following laws they don't expect to be enforced in some other place. I tell you, it doesn't happen. Leadership in the early days of the crisis made a huge difference. The early days of the crisis now are passed us, so whatever happens next it is about perseverance - a completely different matter and something a country does not excel at if it goes through prime minister faster than a pub goes through sixpacks.
        somishere 7y ago
        Yes, yes. Tho I guess it totally depends on your definition of leadership. IMO the handling has been pretty average. I could make a list, but I won't. Instead I'll focus on the positives and note that the one commendable thing that the federal government has done in this crisis is to reach deep into their mothballed hip-pocket and squeeze out a few billion pineapples. I fully appreciate how hard that must have been, given their fixation on 'the black'. And all with only half a whinge.
- squiggleblaz 7y ago
  I'm an Australian living in Europe. What's it actually like there? It sounds like you're under strict lockdown but everyone seems to be saying the government is doing a terrible job (even though the test positive rate is low and the relative number of cases, even the absolute number of cases, is low). Here you say the economy is still humming along but other people say there's queues outside of Centrelink and down the street and around the corner. Are shops like Bunnings and Big W still open? Bike shops? Hobby stores? Gift shops? These are considered non essential here in Germany some of which has caused me difficulty and some of which have not (somewhere may be non essential this week, but over a long enough period of time, everywhere is essential; we just moved a fortnight before the lockdown and fortunately I bought the things I needed for a new home just before they were shut down as non-essential). Restaurants I gather are closed to in house meals same as here. But same as here they're open for takeaway. Factories and such businesses were closed in Italy, but I don't think they were shut down here. Cinemas I take it are closed. Prisons in Victoria at least do not accept inperson visitors which causes prisoners severe isolation but is obviously better then getting them all infected. I understand prisoners are still working - if they're isolated and healthy I guess there's no reason to stop them from working.
  - ssfivy 7y ago
    Australian in Sydney here. Most retail shops are closed. A lot of restaurants and cafes are closed. All events cancelled. So there's a lot of casuals / partimers who don't have any work anymore. Bunnings, BigW, Kmart, all supermarkets are open with social distancing and limiting people in the store. Not sure a bout bike stores. Hobbyco in QVB is still open. A lot of stores closed their retail but are still doing online orders. Basically Australia uses a combination of blacklist and a whitelist system. Some places where people gather like gyms and pubs are forced to close, and restaurants are forced to takeaway-only. You also have a whitelist on reasons to come outside of your home, which still include work. My company was good - we spend a week preparing and now almost everyone is working from home, which is probably unusual considering we work in embedded systems. I have several boxes of hardware in my room with me now.
    - FridgeSeal 7y ago
nostrebored 7y ago
Of my complex of 15 people, 14 were employed prior to coronavirus. Other than my wife and I, only one other person in our complex still has a job. Expect those numbers to change. A lot.

dreen 7y ago

In UK employees are more likely to get furloughed, where they are paid 80% of their salary from the government, do not work but keep their job.

donkeyd 7y ago
In the Netherlands similar. Government pays 90%, employer the other 10% and can't fire anyone.
- ratww 7y ago
  Same with Germany. We call it Kurzarbeit. The company I'm in hasn't fired anyone and is safe. Some neighboring countries have similar programs.
- gambiting 7y ago
  In Poland you get fuck all. Government kept promising 40% contribution but doesn't say where you're supposed to find the other 60% from. So companies are letting go of people left and right.
- simon1573 7y ago
  Sweden too, but government "only" pays 60% IIRC. Employer pays the rest but there has also been some ease on how much tax an employer has to pay for each employee.
- Scarblac 7y ago
  But it's doubtful how long they can keep that up for. Some months, sure. But not years, and the virus is going to stick around for a while. I think it's just a delay.
  - Loughla 7y ago
    It strikes me as a good play, if we were living in times that were normal. Take 2019 for instance. If that scheme existed then, without any pandemic, it would be a great way to soften the exit and allow folks time to find new jobs. But the world we're in now, not so much. It's pulling the band-aid off slower, and my take is, waiting for a hail-mary play when someone magically comes up with a solution for this problem. My interpretation of all of this waves hand around at world leaders is that they genuinely believe science and technology work like magic, and will come up with something, soon.