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I would cynically summarize this as: lockdown is economically unsustainable. We need to go back to work. Let's hope we can control the epidemics this time bette

I would cynically summarize this as: lockdown is economically unsustainable. We need to go back to work. Let's hope we can control the epidemics this time better than before the lockdown. We may have new tools this time (contact tracing, masks, test). But we're not really sure they'll work. It's the exact same situation in France where we're planning to go out of lockdown in 4 weeks. It seems unclear that we'll have the needed tools by then. It's not even clear that they'll work but there are no other options. At least the California roadmap isn't pretending they have the answers to the question they raised...

throwaway237683 7y ago
Isn't it amazing that an absolutely massive privacy invasion that is called contact tracing is already accepted as _inevitable_ if we are ever to be allowed to step out of our homes? Talk about cynicism.
- 0xy 7y ago
  Australia and Singapore's governments are rolling out an app that allows them to track every person you meet with for more than a short period of time. Why would anyone trust them to not abuse this data? If they wanted people to volunteer information, maybe they shouldn't have repeatedly abused trust.
  - anthony_doan 7y ago
    Singapore is often refer to as soft-authoritarian. It's like choosing N.Korea as an example and asking why you should trust them with your civil liberties. https://privacyinternational.org/sites/default/files/2017-12/Singapore_UPR_PI_submission_FINAL.pdf https://privacyinternational.org/sites/default/files/2017-12...
    - dehrmann 7y ago
      I'm honestly not sure what to make of the People's Action Party winning something like 80% of votes. That's a Putin level of popularity.
- yodsanklai 7y ago
  > if we are ever to be allowed to step out of our homes? In France, we need to fill a form every time we want to leave our homes. Any non-work related trip should be limited to one hour and 1km, at most once a day. This was decided with no vote or concertation within a couple of days. It also applies to people who live in rural area. They even fly drones in the mountains in order to catch lonely hikers breaking the rules. It's crazy. Worth than that, part of the population is getting obsessed about rule-breakers, as if lone cyclists suddenly became a danger for the nation. The police is flooded with calls of people denouncing cyclists, hikers, or joggers... Funny thing, our president said in his speech that this pandemics shall not restrict our freedom.
  - tachyonbeam 7y ago
    > Worth than that, part of the population is getting obsessed about rule-breakers, as if lone cyclists suddenly became a danger for the nation. The police is flooded with calls of people denouncing cyclists, hikers, or joggers... I've definitely noticed on Facebook, since the beginning of this, there's a lot of shaming of people doing X, virtue signalling, I'm doing this right, how about you? etc. There's a huge political correctness and peer pressure angle to the social distancing policies. Most people seem onboard with this so far, but I think at some point, the tide will shift. There will be growing social unrest. We're a social species, we're not meant to live in isolation indefinitely.
  - lbeltrame 7y ago
    Did they take inspiration from Italy? That's the same stuff we are subject to every day. And yes, even here we have DDR Volkspolizei-like behavior from people eager to "denounce" those who "break the rules". The way this lockdown has been implemented is going to cause a lot of problems at the society level afterwards.
- mappu 7y ago
  Contact tracing does not need to be a privacy invasion - the Apple/Google implementation seems very well thought out. https://ncase.me/contact-tracing https://ncase.me/contact-tracing
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway237683 7y ago
    This is what the current plan says. Once implemented, the implementation can always be tweaked. In fact it can be tweaked in the next deploy coming a minute after the first. Do you _really_ trust Apple and Google? I'm sorry but I don't.
enraged_camel 7y ago
>>I would cynically summarize this as: lockdown is economically unsustainable. We need to go back to work. Why? Canada is giving every Canadian $2,000 every month. Why can't the US do the same while we let this thing subside fully? Instead we're bailing out corporations, while giving everyone a one-time $1,200 check, while expanding unemployment checks by merely $600.
- aianus 7y ago
  > Canada is giving every Canadian $2,000 every month. No they're not, if you worked even one hour, you don't qualify for any of the $2,000. Your income must be zero to qualify for that program.
- war1025 7y ago
  Because you probably want to eat. And you probably want the electricity and internet to stay on. And you probably want things to continue to be available. All of those require the economy to be functioning.
  - WWLink 7y ago
    I'll claim the economy can function just fine with all the bullshit middle management and software engineers working from home. Let the essential people do their essential jobs at lower risk of catching the virus - and with less micromanagement.
  - aylmao 7y ago
    All those need the supply lines and critical infrastructure to stay functioning, which they can be even if the rest of the "economy" isn't. What's needed is money for households to pay for them, which is the biggest concern at the moment, but which can technically be solved by giving households a cheque.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

throwaway237683 7y ago

Isn't it amazing that an absolutely massive privacy invasion that is called contact tracing is already accepted as _inevitable_ if we are ever to be allowed to step out of our homes? Talk about cynicism.

0xy 7y ago
Australia and Singapore's governments are rolling out an app that allows them to track every person you meet with for more than a short period of time. Why would anyone trust them to not abuse this data? If they wanted people to volunteer information, maybe they shouldn't have repeatedly abused trust.
- anthony_doan 7y ago
  Singapore is often refer to as soft-authoritarian. It's like choosing N.Korea as an example and asking why you should trust them with your civil liberties. https://privacyinternational.org/sites/default/files/2017-12/Singapore_UPR_PI_submission_FINAL.pdf https://privacyinternational.org/sites/default/files/2017-12...
  - dehrmann 7y ago
    I'm honestly not sure what to make of the People's Action Party winning something like 80% of votes. That's a Putin level of popularity.
yodsanklai 7y ago
> if we are ever to be allowed to step out of our homes? In France, we need to fill a form every time we want to leave our homes. Any non-work related trip should be limited to one hour and 1km, at most once a day. This was decided with no vote or concertation within a couple of days. It also applies to people who live in rural area. They even fly drones in the mountains in order to catch lonely hikers breaking the rules. It's crazy. Worth than that, part of the population is getting obsessed about rule-breakers, as if lone cyclists suddenly became a danger for the nation. The police is flooded with calls of people denouncing cyclists, hikers, or joggers... Funny thing, our president said in his speech that this pandemics shall not restrict our freedom.
- tachyonbeam 7y ago
  > Worth than that, part of the population is getting obsessed about rule-breakers, as if lone cyclists suddenly became a danger for the nation. The police is flooded with calls of people denouncing cyclists, hikers, or joggers... I've definitely noticed on Facebook, since the beginning of this, there's a lot of shaming of people doing X, virtue signalling, I'm doing this right, how about you? etc. There's a huge political correctness and peer pressure angle to the social distancing policies. Most people seem onboard with this so far, but I think at some point, the tide will shift. There will be growing social unrest. We're a social species, we're not meant to live in isolation indefinitely.
- lbeltrame 7y ago
  Did they take inspiration from Italy? That's the same stuff we are subject to every day. And yes, even here we have DDR Volkspolizei-like behavior from people eager to "denounce" those who "break the rules". The way this lockdown has been implemented is going to cause a lot of problems at the society level afterwards.
mappu 7y ago
Contact tracing does not need to be a privacy invasion - the Apple/Google implementation seems very well thought out. https://ncase.me/contact-tracing https://ncase.me/contact-tracing
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway237683 7y ago
  This is what the current plan says. Once implemented, the implementation can always be tweaked. In fact it can be tweaked in the next deploy coming a minute after the first. Do you _really_ trust Apple and Google? I'm sorry but I don't.

enraged_camel 7y ago

>>I would cynically summarize this as: lockdown is economically unsustainable. We need to go back to work. Why? Canada is giving every Canadian $2,000 every month. Why can't the US do the same while we let this thing subside fully? Instead we're bailing out corporations, while giving everyone a one-time $1,200 check, while expanding unemployment checks by merely $600.

aianus 7y ago
> Canada is giving every Canadian $2,000 every month. No they're not, if you worked even one hour, you don't qualify for any of the $2,000. Your income must be zero to qualify for that program.
war1025 7y ago
Because you probably want to eat. And you probably want the electricity and internet to stay on. And you probably want things to continue to be available. All of those require the economy to be functioning.
- WWLink 7y ago
  I'll claim the economy can function just fine with all the bullshit middle management and software engineers working from home. Let the essential people do their essential jobs at lower risk of catching the virus - and with less micromanagement.
- aylmao 7y ago
  All those need the supply lines and critical infrastructure to stay functioning, which they can be even if the rest of the "economy" isn't. What's needed is money for households to pay for them, which is the biggest concern at the moment, but which can technically be solved by giving households a cheque.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago