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Yeah, I think that electric bicycles are clearly superior in urban environments. Here in Philadelphia I sold my pickup truck and replaced it with a Tern GSD ele

Yeah, I think that electric bicycles are clearly superior in urban environments. Here in Philadelphia I sold my pickup truck and replaced it with a Tern GSD electric cargo bike, and it can do just about anything a car can do, including carry an adult passenger. Protection from the elements and accessibility are two legitimate concerns that might be addressed by bike-cars like the PEBL in the future: https://www.better.bike/ https://www.better.bike/ Outside of urban environments, velomobiles with aerodynamic shells have some potential, and would allow travel at highway speeds while using much less energy. Low-Tech Magazine suggests "If all 300 million Americans replace their car with an electric velomobile, they need only 25 % of the electricity produced by existing American wind turbines": https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/electric-velomobiles.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/electric-velomobil... - Part 2 (link in footer is broken) https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/electric-velomobiles-part-two.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/electric-velomobil... https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/09/the-velomobile-high-tech-bike-or-low-tech-car.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/09/the-velomobile-hig... The main problem with high-speed velomobiles is they're too fast for bike trails, but are too small and low to the ground to safely share highways with cars. Most pictures/videos I see of them are on rural roads with almost no traffic. In order for them to become popular, we probably would have to completely reimagine our transportation infrastructure.

api 6y ago
Isn't safety an issue too? You'd be turned into pizza toppings in a highway speed accident in one of those. They do show that huge efficiency improvements are possible, but they are not there yet. I feel like there's probably a happy medium: a larger somewhat heavier car with safety features built around active immobilization and advanced materials. It wouldn't be quite as efficient as these, but it would be more efficient than a conventionally built car. I also must point out that weight and aerodynamics are more significant for efficiency than size in an absolute sense. Aerodynamics matters the most at highway speeds. You can lengthen the vehicle and add a trunk for cargo without losing too much.
- skyfaller 6y ago
  Kind of depends on the accident, doesn't it? The aerodynamic shell does provide some protection, depending on the design, and no doubt if these were mass-produced safety features could be ironed out. But if you hit a tree, you're lucky to survive regardless of what vehicle you're in. At any rate, people ride motorcycles with no shell despite serious safety disadvantages, and society has no problem with people making that choice. I have to believe that velomobiles with a shell could be made significantly safer than motorcycles. Of course, the biggest threat to velomobiles, bicycles etc. is the automobile, and if collisions with cars/trucks aren't dealt with in some reasonable fashion, all other safety concerns seem rather secondary.
  - Retric 6y ago
    Cars are designed to reasonably safely handle head on collisions with a brick walls at 55 MPH. I doubt a lightweight shell is going to provide anywhere near that level of protection.
close04 6y ago
You never get something for nothing. The advantages of the bike come at a cost. Mainly in the comfort and capacity topics. Since this isolation thing started I basically cycle ~40-60Km every day just for fun. But if it's too cold or hot, raining, or have to carry stuff larger that the average backpack I'll plant myself firmly in the driver seat of my 1.something ton car to do it. Of course I don't need a 3t truck but I couldn't find any vehicle that ticks all the boxes.
soperj 6y ago
>Protection from the elements Must easier to just get good rain gear, a lot lighter too (and probably cheaper).
- skyfaller 6y ago
  I went for this option. My top of the line Tern GSD cost ~$6,000. A rain shell / completely rainproof outfit, mostly from Showers Pass, cost ~$700. A top of the line PEBL would cost ~$13,000. Still roughly double the price, although mass production could probably reduce the price of the PEBL. That said, I've made an alarming/annoying discovery: rain gear doesn't stay rainproof forever! Gore-tex style rainproof gear eventually must be refreshed using e.g. Nixwax at ~$20 a pop plus your washing labor, and it doesn't always work, meaning you have to junk the clothes or accept that they are no longer rainproof. It seems prudent to have multiple redundant rain shells since you can't always tell when your rain gear is going to stop being rainproof until you go out in the rain and get wet. This means that you may have to do significantly more maintenance and replacement for rain gear than you would have to do for the enclosure of the PEBL. In other words, the cost/hassle may depend on how often you have to travel in the rain.
  - GoToRO 6y ago
    What I found was a cheap but nice shell that had a cut across the back at shoulders level. The cut was covered with a flap. It's 100% waterproof and will last forever.
  - soperj 6y ago
    I wear a layer for absorbing sweat, and don't wash my raingear.
jeffreygoesto 6y ago
Wait. Where have I seen some threewheeler like the PEBL before? Right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8 ;-). Well, in reality it is not as bad, according to https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/news/a27897/jeremy-clarkson-admits-reliant-robin-rollovers-were-totally-rigged/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/news/...
- skyfaller 6y ago
  It's worth noting that the Reliant Robin has its single wheel in the front, rather than in the back as the PEBL does. I think having two wheels in front should be much more stable. Frankly I don't understand why any three-wheel vehicles ever put the single wheel in the front, is it so they can turn easier?

api 6y ago

Isn't safety an issue too? You'd be turned into pizza toppings in a highway speed accident in one of those. They do show that huge efficiency improvements are possible, but they are not there yet. I feel like there's probably a happy medium: a larger somewhat heavier car with safety features built around active immobilization and advanced materials. It wouldn't be quite as efficient as these, but it would be more efficient than a conventionally built car. I also must point out that weight and aerodynamics are more significant for efficiency than size in an absolute sense. Aerodynamics matters the most at highway speeds. You can lengthen the vehicle and add a trunk for cargo without losing too much.

skyfaller 6y ago
Kind of depends on the accident, doesn't it? The aerodynamic shell does provide some protection, depending on the design, and no doubt if these were mass-produced safety features could be ironed out. But if you hit a tree, you're lucky to survive regardless of what vehicle you're in. At any rate, people ride motorcycles with no shell despite serious safety disadvantages, and society has no problem with people making that choice. I have to believe that velomobiles with a shell could be made significantly safer than motorcycles. Of course, the biggest threat to velomobiles, bicycles etc. is the automobile, and if collisions with cars/trucks aren't dealt with in some reasonable fashion, all other safety concerns seem rather secondary.
- Retric 6y ago
  Cars are designed to reasonably safely handle head on collisions with a brick walls at 55 MPH. I doubt a lightweight shell is going to provide anywhere near that level of protection.

close04 6y ago

You never get something for nothing. The advantages of the bike come at a cost. Mainly in the comfort and capacity topics. Since this isolation thing started I basically cycle ~40-60Km every day just for fun. But if it's too cold or hot, raining, or have to carry stuff larger that the average backpack I'll plant myself firmly in the driver seat of my 1.something ton car to do it. Of course I don't need a 3t truck but I couldn't find any vehicle that ticks all the boxes.

soperj 6y ago

>Protection from the elements Must easier to just get good rain gear, a lot lighter too (and probably cheaper).

skyfaller 6y ago
I went for this option. My top of the line Tern GSD cost ~$6,000. A rain shell / completely rainproof outfit, mostly from Showers Pass, cost ~$700. A top of the line PEBL would cost ~$13,000. Still roughly double the price, although mass production could probably reduce the price of the PEBL. That said, I've made an alarming/annoying discovery: rain gear doesn't stay rainproof forever! Gore-tex style rainproof gear eventually must be refreshed using e.g. Nixwax at ~$20 a pop plus your washing labor, and it doesn't always work, meaning you have to junk the clothes or accept that they are no longer rainproof. It seems prudent to have multiple redundant rain shells since you can't always tell when your rain gear is going to stop being rainproof until you go out in the rain and get wet. This means that you may have to do significantly more maintenance and replacement for rain gear than you would have to do for the enclosure of the PEBL. In other words, the cost/hassle may depend on how often you have to travel in the rain.
- GoToRO 6y ago
  What I found was a cheap but nice shell that had a cut across the back at shoulders level. The cut was covered with a flap. It's 100% waterproof and will last forever.
- soperj 6y ago
  I wear a layer for absorbing sweat, and don't wash my raingear.

jeffreygoesto 6y ago

Wait. Where have I seen some threewheeler like the PEBL before? Right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8 ;-). Well, in reality it is not as bad, according to https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/news/a27897/jeremy-clarkson-admits-reliant-robin-rollovers-were-totally-rigged/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/news/...

skyfaller 6y ago
It's worth noting that the Reliant Robin has its single wheel in the front, rather than in the back as the PEBL does. I think having two wheels in front should be much more stable. Frankly I don't understand why any three-wheel vehicles ever put the single wheel in the front, is it so they can turn easier?