6 ms·

He wanted to shut down travel from China in January, something he got reamed for politically by the media and the left. Damned if you do and all that.

danhak 6y ago
I'm not able to find examples of that. Can you point to any mainstream media outlets "reaming" him over that decision?
- Thorondor 6y ago
  Not the person you're replying to, but here are a few examples. CNN: "Experts say travel restrictions the Trump administration put in place to stop the novel coronavirus from spreading could have unintended consequences that undermine that effort." (https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/health/coronavirus-travel-ban/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/health/coronavirus-travel-ban...) The Atlantic: "Guiding Trump’s response is a hardheaded nationalism... Critics from WHO and elsewhere have said the bans are unnecessary and could generate a racist backlash against Chinese people." (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/trump-response-coronavirus/606610/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/trump-r...)
roywiggins 6y ago
He let who knows how many Americans back in from China without testing or quarantining them. Not much of a travel ban.
- johncearls 6y ago
  Quarantining is a fancy word for arrest, with zero cause. There were no "tests" at the time. And finally, thankfully, it is illegal to refuse an American citizen entry to the United States.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    A quarantine wouldn't be refusing entry; entry is allowed, but then you must remain isolated for a certain period of time. > Quarantining is a fancy word for arrest, with zero cause. I just don't know what to do with statements like these. If you truly believe that there is never any grounds for a health-related quarantine, then I don't think you're going to be able to have a productive discussion on this with most people here; your fundamental beliefs are just too far outside the norm (and outside reality, but that's another issue).
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    The cruise ship evacuees were involuntarily quarantined on military bases. Quarantine in America is not new. https://www.lawfareblog.com/long-history-coercive-health-responses-american-law https://www.lawfareblog.com/long-history-coercive-health-res...
  - ummwhat 6y ago
    >Quarantining is a fancy word for arrest, with zero cause. There is probable cause. You probably have the virus. Spreading it around is negligent manslaughter. This court sentences you to two weeks in a hotel.
    - roywiggins 6y ago
      That's not quite right. Quarantine is a kind of civil detention. You have habeus corpus rights but you aren't accused of a crime and the probable cause standard doesn't apply. There's a standard- it's not zilch- but it's not the same as criminal detention.
  - throwaway_USD 6y ago
    Federal Law Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. CDC’s Role Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying these communicable diseases. As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases. When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a communicable disease. State, Local, and Tribal Law States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.
Invictus0 6y ago
Can you provide any source for criticism from the left on this decision? I only found this: > Although Democratic leaders and Democratic presidential candidates have been highly critical of Trump’s response to the coronavirus, we couldn’t find any examples of them directly and clearly criticizing the travel restrictions. [0]: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel...
- RandomTisk 6y ago
  My Twitter timeline was full of people claiming xenophobia and racism for most of February and some of March, some with claims he was distracting from his impeachment. There was a coordinated effort by some jouralists to smear Trump as xenophobic and racist for what he was trying to do. Today they're saying he didn't do enough. There were many stories that were essentially down playing the virus and dog whistling to readers about Trump being a racist/xenophobic for his early actions. Edit: added video showing the media downplaying COVID-19 at late as March 3rd [3]. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/01/31/how-our-brains-make-coronavirus-seem-scarier-than-it-is/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/01/31/how-our-br... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/03/why-we-should-be-wary-an-aggressive-government-response-coronavirus/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/03/why-we-sho... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/europe/coronavirus-stigma-europe.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/europe/coronavirus-... [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wVDPVBZF2Xg&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wVDPVBZF2Xg&...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  Ya, much of this controversy seems to have been made up by the right. Typical gas lighting, funny thing is I remember none of this actually happening at the time, banning travel china was mostly non-controversial outside of a niche. Maybe twitter?
standardUser 6y ago
That is one tiny step in response to a crisis that requires dozens of quick, bold steps. If he gets one point for decisive action and 20 points for delaying, deferring, muddling and contradicting, how much credit has he really earned?
kitotik 6y ago
Also, travelers from Italy and Spain have been able to enter quite freely.
- cjhopman 6y ago
  Yeah, the west coast's virus outbreak is primarily traced to European sources, the bigger east coast one probably more so (but idk the data to support that). The China travel ban was not an effective measure of control, and experts knew that it wouldn't be. So either (1) whoever did it didn't listen to their experts or (2) it was intended to punish China, not as an effective measure of control.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
They actually didn't though. The only thing I can find negative on Trump's travel ban is an independent opinion piece on NyT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/china-travel-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/china-travel-coro... (2/5/20) And even then, the criticism was of the form: > Valid arguments may exist for shutting down the world to travelers originating in China — and shutting down China to the world — as a reasonable public health response. But the World Health Organization explicitly did not advise that any restriction of trade or travel was necessary when it declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern last week, and it still doesn’t. Instead, it has called for exit screening in international airports and domestic hubs in China. What Trump did get a lot of flack on was travel banning countries like Nigeria at the same time, completely unrelated to the coronavirus: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/opinion/trump-travel-ban-nigeria.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/opinion/trump-travel-ban-... Trump and his supporters have made up much of this narrative on their own without any actual action on the left, e.g. see: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-trump/fact-checking-whether-biden-called-trump-xenophobi/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-tru...
throwaway_USD 6y ago
If you have watched any of the daily Coronavirus Task Force Press Briefings you will no doubt have heard Trump championing "If I didn’t do that, we would’ve had hundreds of thousands more people dying"... To my understanding the ban only stopped direct flights from China. In other words flights to china were still able to travel everywhere else in the World and then from those layovers the Chinese were still able to fly into the US indirectly. The virus made its way to US anyway and when it got out of hand the healthcare system was overwhelmed, the economy shutdown, supply chains broke down, we reached essentially 20% unemployment overnight...so I am not sure how his decision saved lives, it seems to me, his travel ban only delayed the virus...so assuming the travel ban wasn't put in place it seems to me the virus would have just been on our radar sooner and we would have done the same poor reactive responses. In other words, from the time of the ban in January to Trumps "15 days to slow the spread" how many test kits were ordered? How many N95 masks were ordered? How many ventilators? How much PPE? What did Trump do to prepare for the virus and save lives beyond travel bans, because it seems our healthcare systems were not prepared/supplied nor was FEMA prepared and mobilized until March. Can you explain how his ban saved lives as opposed to delayed the virus?

danhak 6y ago

I'm not able to find examples of that. Can you point to any mainstream media outlets "reaming" him over that decision?

Thorondor 6y ago
Not the person you're replying to, but here are a few examples. CNN: "Experts say travel restrictions the Trump administration put in place to stop the novel coronavirus from spreading could have unintended consequences that undermine that effort." (https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/health/coronavirus-travel-ban/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/health/coronavirus-travel-ban...) The Atlantic: "Guiding Trump’s response is a hardheaded nationalism... Critics from WHO and elsewhere have said the bans are unnecessary and could generate a racist backlash against Chinese people." (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/trump-response-coronavirus/606610/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/trump-r...)

roywiggins 6y ago

He let who knows how many Americans back in from China without testing or quarantining them. Not much of a travel ban.

johncearls 6y ago
Quarantining is a fancy word for arrest, with zero cause. There were no "tests" at the time. And finally, thankfully, it is illegal to refuse an American citizen entry to the United States.
- kelnos 6y ago
  A quarantine wouldn't be refusing entry; entry is allowed, but then you must remain isolated for a certain period of time. > Quarantining is a fancy word for arrest, with zero cause. I just don't know what to do with statements like these. If you truly believe that there is never any grounds for a health-related quarantine, then I don't think you're going to be able to have a productive discussion on this with most people here; your fundamental beliefs are just too far outside the norm (and outside reality, but that's another issue).
- roywiggins 6y ago
  The cruise ship evacuees were involuntarily quarantined on military bases. Quarantine in America is not new. https://www.lawfareblog.com/long-history-coercive-health-responses-american-law https://www.lawfareblog.com/long-history-coercive-health-res...
- ummwhat 6y ago
  >Quarantining is a fancy word for arrest, with zero cause. There is probable cause. You probably have the virus. Spreading it around is negligent manslaughter. This court sentences you to two weeks in a hotel.
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    That's not quite right. Quarantine is a kind of civil detention. You have habeus corpus rights but you aren't accused of a crime and the probable cause standard doesn't apply. There's a standard- it's not zilch- but it's not the same as criminal detention.
- throwaway_USD 6y ago
  Federal Law Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. CDC’s Role Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying these communicable diseases. As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases. When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a communicable disease. State, Local, and Tribal Law States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.

Invictus0 6y ago

Can you provide any source for criticism from the left on this decision? I only found this: > Although Democratic leaders and Democratic presidential candidates have been highly critical of Trump’s response to the coronavirus, we couldn’t find any examples of them directly and clearly criticizing the travel restrictions. [0]: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel...

RandomTisk 6y ago
My Twitter timeline was full of people claiming xenophobia and racism for most of February and some of March, some with claims he was distracting from his impeachment. There was a coordinated effort by some jouralists to smear Trump as xenophobic and racist for what he was trying to do. Today they're saying he didn't do enough. There were many stories that were essentially down playing the virus and dog whistling to readers about Trump being a racist/xenophobic for his early actions. Edit: added video showing the media downplaying COVID-19 at late as March 3rd [3]. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/01/31/how-our-brains-make-coronavirus-seem-scarier-than-it-is/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/01/31/how-our-br... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/03/why-we-should-be-wary-an-aggressive-government-response-coronavirus/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/03/why-we-sho... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/europe/coronavirus-stigma-europe.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/europe/coronavirus-... [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wVDPVBZF2Xg&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wVDPVBZF2Xg&...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
Ya, much of this controversy seems to have been made up by the right. Typical gas lighting, funny thing is I remember none of this actually happening at the time, banning travel china was mostly non-controversial outside of a niche. Maybe twitter?

standardUser 6y ago

That is one tiny step in response to a crisis that requires dozens of quick, bold steps. If he gets one point for decisive action and 20 points for delaying, deferring, muddling and contradicting, how much credit has he really earned?

kitotik 6y ago

Also, travelers from Italy and Spain have been able to enter quite freely.

cjhopman 6y ago
Yeah, the west coast's virus outbreak is primarily traced to European sources, the bigger east coast one probably more so (but idk the data to support that). The China travel ban was not an effective measure of control, and experts knew that it wouldn't be. So either (1) whoever did it didn't listen to their experts or (2) it was intended to punish China, not as an effective measure of control.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

They actually didn't though. The only thing I can find negative on Trump's travel ban is an independent opinion piece on NyT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/china-travel-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/china-travel-coro... (2/5/20) And even then, the criticism was of the form: > Valid arguments may exist for shutting down the world to travelers originating in China — and shutting down China to the world — as a reasonable public health response. But the World Health Organization explicitly did not advise that any restriction of trade or travel was necessary when it declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern last week, and it still doesn’t. Instead, it has called for exit screening in international airports and domestic hubs in China. What Trump did get a lot of flack on was travel banning countries like Nigeria at the same time, completely unrelated to the coronavirus: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/opinion/trump-travel-ban-nigeria.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/opinion/trump-travel-ban-... Trump and his supporters have made up much of this narrative on their own without any actual action on the left, e.g. see: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-trump/fact-checking-whether-biden-called-trump-xenophobi/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-tru...

throwaway_USD 6y ago

If you have watched any of the daily Coronavirus Task Force Press Briefings you will no doubt have heard Trump championing "If I didn’t do that, we would’ve had hundreds of thousands more people dying"... To my understanding the ban only stopped direct flights from China. In other words flights to china were still able to travel everywhere else in the World and then from those layovers the Chinese were still able to fly into the US indirectly. The virus made its way to US anyway and when it got out of hand the healthcare system was overwhelmed, the economy shutdown, supply chains broke down, we reached essentially 20% unemployment overnight...so I am not sure how his decision saved lives, it seems to me, his travel ban only delayed the virus...so assuming the travel ban wasn't put in place it seems to me the virus would have just been on our radar sooner and we would have done the same poor reactive responses. In other words, from the time of the ban in January to Trumps "15 days to slow the spread" how many test kits were ordered? How many N95 masks were ordered? How many ventilators? How much PPE? What did Trump do to prepare for the virus and save lives beyond travel bans, because it seems our healthcare systems were not prepared/supplied nor was FEMA prepared and mobilized until March. Can you explain how his ban saved lives as opposed to delayed the virus?