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"elected officials call to close the warehouse" How out of touch and uneducated are these people? Pandemics can't be stopped outside a vaccine. We are all goin

"elected officials call to close the warehouse" How out of touch and uneducated are these people? Pandemics can't be stopped outside a vaccine. We are all going to catch it or be quarentined for 18 months. Want to flatten the curve? I could go to Walmart and interface with 50 people to get ibuprofen, or I can interface with 1 worker? We need to stop electing marketers and start electing people that understand math.

ta134273 6y ago
Don’t take ibuprofen or any NSAIDs
Mountain_Skies 6y ago
Most people are terrible at math. How would they ever be able to evaluate a candidate's math skills?
- modsWork4appl 6y ago
  You make a good point. Only thing I could think of is credentialing.
Reedx 6y ago
Really hoping we can get away from marketers. Andrew Yang gave it a good shot, but the DNC and media weren't kind: https://www.axios.com/andrew-yang-2020-media-attention-acc2652a-e43b-45fb-8e88-42e606ab0be8.html https://www.axios.com/andrew-yang-2020-media-attention-acc26... https://vocal.media/theSwamp/a-visual-history-of-the-yang-media-blackout https://vocal.media/theSwamp/a-visual-history-of-the-yang-me... The whole structure of the debates and 24/7 news coverage is more about reality TV than any kind of substance. It's geared for soundbites and drama. So someone like Yang doesn't fit into that, but shines in long form formats like podcasts.
- dangus 6y ago
  Andrew Yang is a nice guy but his "math" isn't actually all that good. His plan to use a VAT to pay for UBI is a regressive tax. People with lower incomes spend a higher percentage of their income on consumable goods. Putting a higher VAT or sales tax on everything to UBI puts a lot of the burden on the lower class to pay for this program. Someone with a much higher income has a number of ways to avoid this tax - they can invest in companies instead, they can buy real estate, they can take a jet to a different country and buy expensive stuff there instead of buying it in the country with a high VAT, like how people in Massachusetts buy their computers in New Hampshire. So, he "did the math," but that doesn't automatically make it good policy. The concept of UBI is a good idea to explore in the future. However, we shouldn't just assume that it's definitely going to work as intended, either: https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/nordic-welfare-news/heikki-hiilamo-disappointing-results-from-the-finnish-basic-income-experiment https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/nordic-welfare-news/heikki-h...
  - Reedx 6y ago
    His plan was to exempt such goods from VAT, so it wouldn't be regressive. That said, I wasn't entirely convinced by the Freedom Dividend and wish it hadn't been the centerpiece. What I was more interested in and really appreciated was his overall approach and focus on problems and solutions. An actual problem solver and uniter, not someone perpetuating the WWE reality TV show that is our politics.
    - JoshTko 6y ago
      What problems has Andrew Yang solved? My main concern with him is that he lacked any significant accomplishments for a presidential candidate.
    - dangus 6y ago
      Actually that's true, I wish I could take back my original comment at this point or modify it (too late). "Assuming all goods are subject to a VAT and the entire VAT is passed on to consumers, an individual would have to buy $120,000 worth of items before the extra costs associated with a VAT “use up” their UBI." That is...true, yes. Everyone's still getting the extra $1,000 a month. Using all of that up by spending on a 10% VAT puts you at spending $120,000 a year. So, while a VAT is not progressive, funneling it into UBI turns it into being progressive. That makes sense. You don't even need a goods exemption for that to work as intended. I am also not convinced on the idea of UBI. There needs to be more studies including large scale studies if possible. I am not convinced that the largest rent-seekers with limited competition and supply alternatives wouldn't just suck those income gains away - jobs with labor supply surplus might pay closer to the minimum wage, landlords might simply all agree to raise rent, Comcast will raise bills across the country, colleges raise tuition, etc. UBI sometimes feels like an oversimplification, one of those "easy solutions" that doesn't take a long time to write down and fits in a campaign slogan.
flexie 6y ago
Sad that Amazon is allowed to take an even bigger share of American online retail. They are raising their wage to $17 per hour. That's around $3,000 per month in stead of their usual $2,500 per month. Little vacation, few sick days.
- twblalock 6y ago
  They are earning their market share by providing better service than other retailers. That's how it's supposed to work.
- lkbm 6y ago
  > They are raising their wage to $17 per hour. That's around $3,000 per month in stead of their usual $2,500 per month. According to Google, that beats Walmart pay[0]. Less clear for Target[1]. Of course, if reports are even remotely accurate, Amazon warehouse working conditions are considerably worse. I don't know what other retailers pay, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're comparable. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=Walmart+associate+pay https://www.google.com/search?q=Walmart+associate+pay [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=Target+worker+pay https://www.google.com/search?q=Target+worker+pay
weddpros 6y ago
The plague was stopped before vaccines existed... Same with many other pandemics. A pandemic is an epidemic that affects a larger area, not an unstoppable monster
- ferzul 6y ago
  the plague rolled around for like half a millenium, it was constantly present in europe for more than three centuries. is that your plan?
  - alteria 6y ago
    I was looking through this list last week, and it was truly shocking how many epidemics were plague, even into the 19th (!!) century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
    - jmalicki 6y ago
      I guess you missed the 20th and 21st century bubonic plague outbreaks? It's still around, and is still found in places like the southwest US! https://www.cdc.gov/plague/resources/235098_plaguefactsheet_508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/plague/resources/235098_plaguefactsheet_...
  - weddpros 6y ago
    I'll be glad if we get a vaccine. If we don't, we must fight it nonetheless. In 2003, we stopped the SRAS epidemic, another coronavirus. We stopped it. There's no vaccine yet. The 2015 MERS isn't completely extinct but it's under control. Also I think Korea and a few other Asian countries will be virus free soon (those who thought the 2003/2015 epidemics)
nostromo 6y ago
Politicians right now are in, "it doesn't matter if we do the right thing, it matters that we look like we're taking authoritative action" mode. This happened after 9/11 too. Right now, 0.1% of the US has had Covid-19. For heard immunity we need that number to be at least 500 times larger. So, what's the plan here? Wait for a miracle that isn't coming? Stay in quarantine for a year and risk societal ruin?
- balls187 6y ago
  > Right now, 0.1% of the US has had Covid-19. For heard immunity we need that number to be at least 500 times larger. Would deaths scale linearly with a 500x increase? How about the impact on our medical system, would that scale linearly with a 500x increase?
  - nostromo 6y ago
    And how will our lives look if we continue this quarantine for a decade -- which at our current level of infection (which has leveled off) is the minimum time it would take to gain heard immunity?
    - Invictus0 6y ago
      Herd immunity is not the only way out; there is a lot of room between a decade and the time to get a vaccine to market.
    - balls187 6y ago
      > And how will our lives look if we continue this quarantine for a decade Probably look at Iraq and Afghanistan has dealt with post 9/11. Speaking strictly in terms of the US, we'd be able to weather a 10-year lockdown. America is rich in natural resources, and has a large agricultural base. Our government can handle the basics: Drinking water Food Shelter The rest would be economic shifts, such as reduction in costs of living to account for a new economy that has shifted away from the ability to get together. I would speculate we're better off with the entirety of the economy being in shambles, than we would be by having rather high mortality rates, and overwhelming our health services. Let me post another question: What if you did not need to work to have your any of needs met?

ta134273 6y ago

Don’t take ibuprofen or any NSAIDs

Mountain_Skies 6y ago

Most people are terrible at math. How would they ever be able to evaluate a candidate's math skills?

modsWork4appl 6y ago
You make a good point. Only thing I could think of is credentialing.

Reedx 6y ago

Really hoping we can get away from marketers. Andrew Yang gave it a good shot, but the DNC and media weren't kind: https://www.axios.com/andrew-yang-2020-media-attention-acc2652a-e43b-45fb-8e88-42e606ab0be8.html https://www.axios.com/andrew-yang-2020-media-attention-acc26... https://vocal.media/theSwamp/a-visual-history-of-the-yang-media-blackout https://vocal.media/theSwamp/a-visual-history-of-the-yang-me... The whole structure of the debates and 24/7 news coverage is more about reality TV than any kind of substance. It's geared for soundbites and drama. So someone like Yang doesn't fit into that, but shines in long form formats like podcasts.

dangus 6y ago
Andrew Yang is a nice guy but his "math" isn't actually all that good. His plan to use a VAT to pay for UBI is a regressive tax. People with lower incomes spend a higher percentage of their income on consumable goods. Putting a higher VAT or sales tax on everything to UBI puts a lot of the burden on the lower class to pay for this program. Someone with a much higher income has a number of ways to avoid this tax - they can invest in companies instead, they can buy real estate, they can take a jet to a different country and buy expensive stuff there instead of buying it in the country with a high VAT, like how people in Massachusetts buy their computers in New Hampshire. So, he "did the math," but that doesn't automatically make it good policy. The concept of UBI is a good idea to explore in the future. However, we shouldn't just assume that it's definitely going to work as intended, either: https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/nordic-welfare-news/heikki-hiilamo-disappointing-results-from-the-finnish-basic-income-experiment https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/nordic-welfare-news/heikki-h...
- Reedx 6y ago
  His plan was to exempt such goods from VAT, so it wouldn't be regressive. That said, I wasn't entirely convinced by the Freedom Dividend and wish it hadn't been the centerpiece. What I was more interested in and really appreciated was his overall approach and focus on problems and solutions. An actual problem solver and uniter, not someone perpetuating the WWE reality TV show that is our politics.
  - JoshTko 6y ago
    What problems has Andrew Yang solved? My main concern with him is that he lacked any significant accomplishments for a presidential candidate.
  - dangus 6y ago
    Actually that's true, I wish I could take back my original comment at this point or modify it (too late). "Assuming all goods are subject to a VAT and the entire VAT is passed on to consumers, an individual would have to buy $120,000 worth of items before the extra costs associated with a VAT “use up” their UBI." That is...true, yes. Everyone's still getting the extra $1,000 a month. Using all of that up by spending on a 10% VAT puts you at spending $120,000 a year. So, while a VAT is not progressive, funneling it into UBI turns it into being progressive. That makes sense. You don't even need a goods exemption for that to work as intended. I am also not convinced on the idea of UBI. There needs to be more studies including large scale studies if possible. I am not convinced that the largest rent-seekers with limited competition and supply alternatives wouldn't just suck those income gains away - jobs with labor supply surplus might pay closer to the minimum wage, landlords might simply all agree to raise rent, Comcast will raise bills across the country, colleges raise tuition, etc. UBI sometimes feels like an oversimplification, one of those "easy solutions" that doesn't take a long time to write down and fits in a campaign slogan.

flexie 6y ago

Sad that Amazon is allowed to take an even bigger share of American online retail. They are raising their wage to $17 per hour. That's around $3,000 per month in stead of their usual $2,500 per month. Little vacation, few sick days.

twblalock 6y ago
They are earning their market share by providing better service than other retailers. That's how it's supposed to work.
lkbm 6y ago
> They are raising their wage to $17 per hour. That's around $3,000 per month in stead of their usual $2,500 per month. According to Google, that beats Walmart pay[0]. Less clear for Target[1]. Of course, if reports are even remotely accurate, Amazon warehouse working conditions are considerably worse. I don't know what other retailers pay, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're comparable. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=Walmart+associate+pay https://www.google.com/search?q=Walmart+associate+pay [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=Target+worker+pay https://www.google.com/search?q=Target+worker+pay

weddpros 6y ago

The plague was stopped before vaccines existed... Same with many other pandemics. A pandemic is an epidemic that affects a larger area, not an unstoppable monster

ferzul 6y ago
the plague rolled around for like half a millenium, it was constantly present in europe for more than three centuries. is that your plan?
- alteria 6y ago
  I was looking through this list last week, and it was truly shocking how many epidemics were plague, even into the 19th (!!) century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
  - jmalicki 6y ago
    I guess you missed the 20th and 21st century bubonic plague outbreaks? It's still around, and is still found in places like the southwest US! https://www.cdc.gov/plague/resources/235098_plaguefactsheet_508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/plague/resources/235098_plaguefactsheet_...
- weddpros 6y ago
  I'll be glad if we get a vaccine. If we don't, we must fight it nonetheless. In 2003, we stopped the SRAS epidemic, another coronavirus. We stopped it. There's no vaccine yet. The 2015 MERS isn't completely extinct but it's under control. Also I think Korea and a few other Asian countries will be virus free soon (those who thought the 2003/2015 epidemics)

nostromo 6y ago

Politicians right now are in, "it doesn't matter if we do the right thing, it matters that we look like we're taking authoritative action" mode. This happened after 9/11 too. Right now, 0.1% of the US has had Covid-19. For heard immunity we need that number to be at least 500 times larger. So, what's the plan here? Wait for a miracle that isn't coming? Stay in quarantine for a year and risk societal ruin?

balls187 6y ago
> Right now, 0.1% of the US has had Covid-19. For heard immunity we need that number to be at least 500 times larger. Would deaths scale linearly with a 500x increase? How about the impact on our medical system, would that scale linearly with a 500x increase?
- nostromo 6y ago
  And how will our lives look if we continue this quarantine for a decade -- which at our current level of infection (which has leveled off) is the minimum time it would take to gain heard immunity?
  - Invictus0 6y ago
    Herd immunity is not the only way out; there is a lot of room between a decade and the time to get a vaccine to market.
  - balls187 6y ago
    > And how will our lives look if we continue this quarantine for a decade Probably look at Iraq and Afghanistan has dealt with post 9/11. Speaking strictly in terms of the US, we'd be able to weather a 10-year lockdown. America is rich in natural resources, and has a large agricultural base. Our government can handle the basics: Drinking water Food Shelter The rest would be economic shifts, such as reduction in costs of living to account for a new economy that has shifted away from the ability to get together. I would speculate we're better off with the entirety of the economy being in shambles, than we would be by having rather high mortality rates, and overwhelming our health services. Let me post another question: What if you did not need to work to have your any of needs met?