20 ms·

Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

513 points by ssclafani 16y ago

Kylekramer 16y ago
Lot of nitpicks and to be expected framing/number fudging by Steve, but straight up misquoting the Samsung rep was very odd. That had been widely corrected, so either Apple did not research their presentation (unlikely) or just knowingly lied (yuck).
- Judson 16y ago
  There is something kind of funny about a quote going from "quite small" to "quite smooth" (referencing sales numbers - as in "the numbers have been quite smooth"). It reminds me of a kid cursing in front of his mother and then twisting the sounds to create another word after he realized it, if that makes any sense.
  - Kylekramer 16y ago
    ESL was the real culprit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN_w0mcDayI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN_w0mcDayI
    - tnorthcutt 16y ago
      How did anyone get "small" from that? Sounded pretty clear to me. I'm a native English speaker, and do not speak or understand any other languages.
      - Kylekramer 16y ago
        I can sort of see it. Smooth is a bit of a strange word choice. And in context she was trying to say sales were OK but not blockbuster, so small was primed in the listener's head. Especially in a blink and you'll miss it sale call. Of course, reporters should have double checked the recording, but that is understandably difficult to do in the current fast paced tech news landscape.
      - jongraehl 16y ago
        If you already expect "smooth", it is in fact impossible to hear "small" in that recording. But that doesn't mean it's impossible in general.
      - jhen095 16y ago
        Perhaps a case of selective hearing or hearing what was expected/wanted?
- spooneybarger 16y ago
  Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
  - NathanKP 16y ago
    Hanlon's razor is something I live my life by.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    How much stupidity do you think is involved when billions of dollars are on the line?
    - stcredzero 16y ago
      Well, there are 435 US Congressional representatives.
    - krakensden 16y ago
      On a long enough timeline, everyone is an imbecile.
    - kmfrk 16y ago
      I'm sure Microsoft has the answer to that question. Or at least the experience.
      - coderdude 16y ago
        A cheap jab at Microsoft with no citations that doesn't even follow the conversation, in an Apple thread no less. I'm shocked.
        kmfrk 16y ago
        I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm a Windows user. If you can't recall any egregious Microsoft failures, you're the fanboy trapped in a distortion field. Microsoft may have a lot of things going for them, but they are ginormous klutzes. Do you seriously think that there isn't stupidity involved in any billion-dollar projects and companies?
- Herring 16y ago
  Apple's misquote was probably more truthful than the actual quote.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- brudgers 16y ago
  >"just knowingly lied" In their response to Gillis's lawsuit regarding failure of the iPhone 3G to perform as advertised - in part Apple's defense was: "Plaintiff's claims, and those of the purported class, are barred by the fact that the alleged deceptive statements were such that no reasonable person in Plaintiff's position could have reasonably relied on or misunderstood Apple's statements as claims of fact," http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/files/apples_answer_in_gillis.pdf http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/files/apples_ans...
  - inklesspen 16y ago
    Yeah, the important part is in the header just before that response. "Puffing." This refers to "puffery", a common advertising/marketing term. For example, the owner of a hamburger restaurant is permitted to claim he serves "the best hamburgers in the world" without actually producing an empirical study backing it up, because that claim is puffery, and nobody would reasonably take it literally. I don't know which claim of Apple they are saying is puffery, but they do produce a lot of it ("magical" iPad, anyone?)
- jsz0 16y ago
  The other option is they knew the quote was wrong but the substance was accurate. The Galaxy Tab hasn't really taken off has it?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
scott_s 16y ago
You see, Apple loves to talk about specs when it is in its best interest (speeds and feeds). Generalizing, You see, [companies] love to talk about [what] is in its best interest.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  And thankfully, good journalists will call them out on it. I'd argue that's an important function of journalism, even.
  - scott_s 16y ago
    That's fine, but the tone of this piece was surprise that Apple would use its own marketing event to make Apple look good. Calling them out on facts is good, but there's no need to tell me that Apple will selectively present features based on how good it sells.
    - Semiapies 16y ago
      Yes. The whole pretense that Steve Jobs' "reality distortion field" is somehow remarkable is one of the weirder and lazier tropes of tech journalism.
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      I think the backlash is stronger because Apple puts more into their marketing. They put a lot of effort into making everything "magical", "unforgettable", and "world changing". Naturally, some people have strong adverse reactions to that, and are going to be quite negative in an attempt to even it out, at least as they see it. It makes complete sense if you look at it as a counter/reaction to Apple's heavily positive PR.
    - kmfrk 16y ago
      “In what seems like a ritual at this point, I watched Apple's iPad 2 keynote in disbelief, noting the factual errors that kept coming up minute after minute.” The only surprise is that a journalist bothered to fact-check a Stevenote.
cwisecarver 16y ago
The misquote was the straw that broke the camel's back. Everything else in that presentation was exactly like every other presentation given by Apple or any company touting a new product: Bring up the places you're better and leave out the places you're falling down. If it wasn't for the obvious misquote, in bold type, nobody would have batted an eye.
grav1tas 16y ago
I'm curious if specs in mobile devices have become less important when the device is only supposed to do more or less what it's advertised to doand what the user bought it to do, and not much else. Apple advertises all the apps that work on the iOS line of devices, but these apps are (should be) designed to fit "inside the box" of functionality on the device. Android seems to take a different philosophical approach where users are the big deciders in what is good and appropriate for them on their devices. In the face of advertising versatility, specs do become a bigger issue...especially when you compete with multiple devices on the same platform...like PCs. Apple devices don't have the spec issue, except where it's relevant to show difference between generations of devices. At least that's my two cents. I think both platforms put forth their design philosophies pretty well, and both are respectable options for users. Why people fight over what's better so much is a source of both hilarity and sadness for me.
- bostonpete 16y ago
  I'm not sure I buy it, or at least that reasoning doesn't match Apple's apparent position on this. For example, at the iPhone 4 launch, the retinal display was the big topic. It would seem hard for them to then turn around and say that the better resolution of the XOOM is irrelevant. This is the first product version launch I can remember where Apple wasn't on the leading edge in terms of specs. If they launched months after the XOOM and are as far behind spec-wise as the article suggests, that seems like a big win for the XOOM (even though specs obviously probably aren't the most important factor for most potential customers).
  - andyman1080 16y ago
    But the better resolution of the XOOM is irrelevant. The core value of a tablet device to the user is delivered through apps. Users tend not to care or notice how many pixels the device has, as long as there is a variety of good and inexpensive apps. Not changing the iPad 2 resolution ensures there are still 65k and counting fully compatible apps. Android tablet makers continually "one-upping" each other on specs effectively ensure that much fewer quality and compatible apps will be available for their devices.
  - 16y ago
corin_ 16y ago
Completely agree. I'm not exactly an apple fanboy, but I do love my iPad, and there isn't yet a competitor's device I'd want to replace it with (although I'm hoping BlackBerry's will change that). If he had come out and given all the ways that the iPad 2 is better than the iPad, I'd have been impressed. But spending half the time criticising competitors just came across as the kind of tacky tactic that really shouldn't be needed unless you're trying to catch up to them - not if you're trying to prevent them from catching up to you. Oh, and that's just for the attacking competitors. Going even further than that, and attacking them with incorrect spin, way too far.
- darthg0d 16y ago
  This has been happening for quite some time. One of the earnings call last year was more of Android-bashing than a talk about Apple's successes. EDIT: I believe it was Steve doing the talk back then too.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    I think this is a sign that they're running scared a lot more than they're letting on. It's only a matter of time before the iPad style tablet becomes commoditized. Quite a few years ago, Apple was one of the design leaders in the laptop space, then others caught up, more or less. The same thing happened in the smartphone space. The same thing will happen to tablets. In a way, they are subject to the same forces that Nokia is desperately trying to escape, except Apple has been smart and positioned themselves on the forefront of each wave, where it will lift them up. Nokia rode their wave too long. Will Apple become a victim of their own success? Yes. For the record, though, I think Steve Job's "reality distortion field" is sometimes actually an anti-distortion field. I think the consensus reality has some significant distortions, which he's good at seeing through. Then again, everyone who isn't Steve might have a hard time knowing which polarity the field is set to at any given moment.
    - jonhohle 16y ago
      > Quite a few years ago, Apple was one of the design leaders in the laptop space, then others caught up, more or less. The same thing happened in the smartphone space. Who are these companies? Seriously. Have you used an Apple product side by side with a non Apple equivalent? Does any company come close to the build quality or original design of Apple? If other companies are almost catching up, it still means they are behind, and, worse, just riding on Apple's success without much idea of why they are successful.
Jun8 16y ago
How much of an Jobs/Apple hater do you have to be before you include Nook and Kindle in the tablet market to argue that the iPad share is actually close to 50?
- wmeredith 16y ago
  Quite a large one, I'd imagine. The Nook and Kindle are a pretty far cry from the iPad in terms of capability. To me it seems like it's a very close parallel to a smart phone vs. a feature phone.
  - NickPollard 16y ago
    So you're saying the iPad has sold more than 90% of all devices that are like iPads? Seems verging on tautological to me.
    - mambodog 16y ago
      I'm pretty sure there's room for a distinction between iPad-style media/web tablets and the simpler "reader" type ones like the Kindle and Nook.
      - NickPollard 16y ago
        I'm not arguing that, but remember the nook-color has internet, wifi, games and an app-store. Is that an e-reader or a tablet? (Note: that's all if you don't root it, those who do can do pretty much anything on it that android can do)
        lukifer 16y ago
        The iPad does compete with the Kindle, but they are clearly in different product categories. However, I'm inclined to agree that the Nook is closer to the iPad than the Kindle, without even having to root it.
    - pmjordan 16y ago
martythemaniak 16y ago
Well, there wasn't too much to talk about other than these lies. "We got the iPad2. Same hardware you saw at CES, same OS you saw last year. Have a good day everybody"
- rbarooah 16y ago
  The iPad 2 hardware was shown at CES?
js4all 16y ago
Since when is it not okay for a company the emphasize the pluses over the competition and leave out what's not so good. This is common practice. If you want a full comparison, you have to do it yourself or use independent tests. I always rely on my own tests, if possible. Mr. Job's keynotes are rhetorically first class and most people can't wait to get hands on the products after they have seen the show. This is no reality distortion, this is perfect marketing.
- egor83 16y ago
  Just emphasizing is not a big deal. Giving numbers that are outright wrong is a problem. This is common practice. "Everyone does that" is no excuse.
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    Which numbers were outright wrong?
    - egor83 16y ago
      The claim about 90% market share. Price comparison, while not outright wrong, is still stretching the truth a bit. "Smooth/small" thing too.
      - rbarooah 16y ago
        I don't see how the 90% market share statement is wrong unless you include boxes sitting in warehouses or returned products as 'sold'. What's wrong with the price comparison? I agree that the smooth/small thing was underhanded, although let's not forget that that statement was made as Samsung admitted that they hadn't actually sold 2m devices as they had previously claimed.
        egor83 16y ago
        1) I don't see how the 90% market share statement is wrong From the article: Apple sold 14.8 mln iPads. Samsung sold 2 mln Tabs. Do you imply that these figures are not correct? If so, please provide better data. But if we use these figures, Apple has 14.8 / (14.8 + 2) ~ 88% market share, and a claim about "> 90%" is outright wrong. Please note that no other competitors were included in this count. 2) What's wrong with the price comparison? "Jobs compared the most expensive Android tablet -- the XOOM --against the iPad. ... The XOOM's are simply better. It has (expandable) 32GB of storage built in and 3G built in ... XOOM has a much better, bigger 720P+ screen ... Then, add far superior cameras (w/flash), stereo speakers (iPad 2 has one), 4G and a micro-USB/SD Card reader", plus (possibly) more RAM. One pays more for XOOM, but one gets more (EDIT - in terms of components. I'm not saying XOOMs have better design/software/etc) as well. Jobs compares prices for devices with different specs.
Tycho 16y ago
Somebody rebutted the points in one of the comments: none of the dual-core are really shipping over 100 000 a month (threshold for volume considering iPad ships 1,000,000 per month); Samsung admitted miscalculating their end-sales; iPad 2 has some intense minitiarisation, which as with other 'features/improvements' doesn't come free; Apple bore the entire cost of developing the OS themselves; Kindles, Nooks etc. aren't tablets. Not sure if his/her points were sound, just reporting them.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
  - Tycho 16y ago
    are there really millions of Galaxy Tab users? Anyway, I don't think it's that 'devious' of a lie considering the iPad 2 will simply replace the iPad line, which sells 1 million per month, and will probably do more with the new device. It's not technically true just yet, but it almost certainly will be in a month's time. It would be different if the iPad 2 was a whole new product line.
    - dean 16y ago
      It's not technically true just yet, but it almost certainly will be in a month's time. Well, let him say it in a month's time. Until then, it's not true -- technically or otherwise.
      - tnorthcutt 16y ago
        Well, let him say it in a month's time. Until then, it's not true -- technically or otherwise. It's what Mr. Jobs likes to call a "future-truth".
      - albedoa 16y ago
        By your standard, he shouldn't make a future claim even if the certainty is 100% because it hasn't happened yet. Most of us don't even hold ourselves to that standard, and I wonder if you do.
stcredzero 16y ago
That's not including all of the Android-powered Nooks out there, I like the look of those. those cheap $100 Androids you can buy at Walgreens or Amazon Those aren't doing Android any favors. and even Windows-powered Tablet PCs (which are mentioned two bullet points above!). Have one of those. While it is great that I can use any Windows software I want on it, I only use the iPad nowadays. It's just more comfortable to use. Not sure they're the same category as the iPad.
dr_ 16y ago
Disagree, although it was wrong for Job's to misquote Samsung. Regardless, just because Samsung's tablet sales are "smooth" rather than "small" that doesn't mean that it's selling particularly well. It's not. Nor is the Xoom. I mean c'mon, honestly how many people do you know who own a Galaxy tab or a Xoom? Or anyone who is even really looking forward to buying one? And now how many people do you know who own an iPad or plan to purchase one? Exactly. Jobs didn't even need to waste his time attacking his competitors. To be honest I, like most people out there probably, never even heard of the Samsung quote until he brought it up, so he may have even given them more credibility now. And the smart phone game isn't over. Nobody I know who live in other countries wants an Android phone. They want an iPhone. But a lot of people can't afford it. Trust me that will change too.
- Enlightenment 16y ago
  ha ha, good one.
- Enlightenment 16y ago
  ha ha, good one.
Bud 16y ago
It's a bit hard to take CNN seriously as a tech commentator, frankly. They published this today: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/03/03/missing.from.ipad2.taylor/index.html?hpt=C2 http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/03/03/missing.fr... I've rarely seen a tech article that was less useful or more silly.
- corin_ 16y ago
  Not sure why you chose to justify criticising CNN with a single article that was written by a guest, who happens to actually work for Mashable. I don't read CNN regularly so I won't argue for or against CNN's tech coverage, but if you want to argue against it you should try a little harder.
  - Bud 16y ago
    I think the article referenced in the current thread makes for a pretty good second data point. The author tries to pretend that sales "into the channel" are real sales (they aren't, of course). He pretends that all RAM is equal and directly comparable (on-die RAM is clearly superior). He pretends that megapixels in cameras that are a few mm in size is a hugely important measurement of camera quality (it's not). He pretends that the Nook and Kindle are at all comparable to the iPad or even in the same product category (they manifestly aren't). He pretends that all dual-core CPUs are equivalent (which is laughable). I can't remember the last CNN tech article that I found to be insightful or informative. By contrast, I read a few dozen things via Hacker News daily that pass muster.
- hornokplease 16y ago
  The linked article is from Fortune Magazine, although it lives on a cnn.com domain. Considerably more credible in my opinion. The author, Seth Weintraub, also owns the Apple-focused blog 9to5mac.com
nopal 16y ago
Are we really debating whether a CEO over-hyped his product in a keynote? Next we'll be taking apart a sales rep for saying his product is better than its competitors.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- lwhi 16y ago
  There's a difference between over-hyping and telling lies.
  - bonch 16y ago
    I saw nothing that constituted a "lie." This is an article from an obvious Android fan (looking at Seth Weintraub's other articles, it's all Google, all the time) who didn't like that Apple took some shots at competing tablets. I have to agree with one of the comments to the article that says Android fanboys are as bad as Apple fanboys, maybe even worse because they act like the fact Android is open source is some great benevolent act of morality--Google is simply an advertising company giving people free services in order to index their data for contxt-sensitive advertising space. I imagine that a lot of Apple competitors and their fans were upset at the iPad 2 announcement, because it really seems as if will be another hit.
    - lwhi 16y ago
      I often wonder whether there's anything that Apple could do that might make the faithful admit they've done something wrong. Once again, this is one of those times. Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
    - vacri 16y ago
      I've only just entered the smartphone market (android phone 3 weeks ago) but before I had a horse in the race, as a neutral observer, Apple fanboys were worse than Android ones. Android fanboy bitchiness seems to be a reaction to Apple marketroid guff. It doesn't self-generate and invade your mindspace. Apple marketing and culture does. Fanboys are annoying everywhere, but in the absence of mention of competition, Apple on other people's devices demands more of my mental space than Android does.
kmfrk 16y ago
It's a great piece, but I don't agree that Jobs focuses on specs. Apple is great in that they do their utmost to explain what is good about their products and simplifying the purchase and customization options for the user. The iPhone 4 wasn't interesting because it had x more DPI clocking in at a total of y; it was interesting, because they had achieved so many DPI that the average person would not be able to discern the pixels. The Android handset manufacturers are losing the marketing battle partly because they get caught up in numbers and data: x megapixel cameras, y RAM, z megahertz. To the average consumer, all these extra parameters to consider before buying a product makes it all the less likely and rewarding to pick out your next phone.
- nooneelse 16y ago
  > "The iPhone 4 wasn't interesting because it had x more DPI clocking in at a total of y; it was interesting, because they had achieved so many DPI that the average person would not be able to discern the pixels." That measure of achievement is entirely dependent on the distance between the eyes and the screen. I went around measuring a couple of days, many people with smart phones already had non-discernible pixels at the distance they held them in late 2009, before the iPhone4 (by Apple's measure of non-discernible). Why pick one arbitrary distance over another and call that the interesting transition?
Bud 16y ago
Let's just take the bull by the horns here. Seth Weintraub's first sentence in this article, and ostensibly his main point, is: "Apple twisted facts (or worse) to try to convince crowds that all other tablets had no shot at de-throning the iPad in 2011." I'll put up $100 right now that says no competitor will sell more units than the iPad this year. I'd be surprised if anyone cracked 50%. Does anyone seriously doubt that the iPad will kill its competition this year? I think it's pretty obvious. Weintraub is just dreaming if he thinks otherwise. So who's guilty of reality distortion, here?
- rosser 16y ago
  The guy who outright lied?
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    You mean Weintraub? He knows for certain that Samsung didn't sell 2 million tabs, because Samsung made a statement saying that, yet he pretends that they did. This kind of journalism is part of the problem - not the solution.
    - jongraehl 16y ago
      So they both lied.
      - rbarooah 16y ago
        Aside from the Samsung misquote, what did Jobs say that could be called a lie?
        burgerbrain 16y ago
        You're a little slow, aren't you?
fredBuddemeyer 16y ago
ill never understand why someone so far ahead lowers himself like this. in american politics this is what a vice president is for.
henrymazza 16y ago
Case is it's a bad article by a frenetic journalist. Bad written and more biased than Jobs. His 90% "math" is ridiculous.
runjake 16y ago
Link bait. I'm tempted to label the author a "socialist", keeping with recent trends. Apple markets well. Other people market and make similar claims. Your soap, your window cleaner, your vitamins, your TV set. It's the nature of our culture, our marketing, and our capitalism. Why is this a me vs. you thing? Corporations selling Android devices do it, too. Check out any Android-based "4G" device on AT&T: 1) virtually no one actually has "4G" coverage, and upload speeds are HORRIBLE on 3G (allegedly because AT&T or the OEMs decided to disable HSUPA on these devices for god knows what reason). Why must Apple always be called out like this? Because they do it so much better than their competitors. If you don't like this, I urge you not to buy their products.
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  >Why must Apple always be called out like this? Because they do it so much better than their competitors. Because this announcement gets more press than almost anything else you stated.
  - runjake 16y ago
    You just reiterated my point that you quoted.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  "I'm tempted to label the author a "socialist"" And you really tempt me to label you something actually derogatory. The 50s called, they want you back.
  - runjake 16y ago
    Uhm, are you serious? It's tongue-in-cheek, hence the "keep with trends" quip.
- raganwald 16y ago
  When did "Socialist" become an insult? I don't admit to it, I boast of it!! http://raganwald.posterous.com/hello-my-name-is-reginald-and-i-am-a-socialis http://raganwald.posterous.com/hello-my-name-is-reginald-and...
kill-9 16y ago
How does a link like this make it to the top of HN? It's nothing more than petty, spiteful Apple bashing by a Google guy.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Isn't the whole keynote "petty, spiteful Google bashing" by an "Apple guy"? Jobs intentionally misquoted someone to make himself look better at a talk with his customers and investors. An article pointing that out is not "bashing".
  - rimantas 16y ago
    Care to elaborate, how was Google bashed in the demo of Garage Band, iMovie, Smart Cover? Was Google even mentioned?
    - jrockway 16y ago
      I chose that wording to parody the comment I was replying to. When you see wording in a reply that is very similar to wording in the original comment, you should switch your language processing unit from the "analyze exact literal meaning" mode to the "read for entertainment value" mode. From a strictly literal standpoint, Jobs made a lot of jabs at the competition for iOS, which is phones and tablets running Android now. Android is developed by Google. A specific comment would be the misquote of Samsung's CEO. Samsung is not Google, but you can see how Google is involved; they make the OS that the Samsung tablets run.
      - rimantas 16y ago
        OK, point taken. The misquote thing is interesting. It causes (rightfully, I guess) a lot of noise, but to be fair: Jobs is not the author of misquote IIRC, and then we don't know if that version of the quote is a lie, Samsung does not give the numbers. Choosing to quote incorrect version over the "smooth" version knowingly is indeed fishy, no matter the factual accuracy.
      - 16y ago
gaiusparx 16y ago
I'm not sure why an article to rant about a common marketing practice? Earnings call bashing Android, Google IO attacks Apple, so on and on. Is Steve reaching the status of a saint and not allow to bash?
phatbyte 16y ago
I hate when people compare Apple products specs with the other competitors. I mean, if a device runs smooth including apps, and no crashes. Why the hell do I need to know if Xoom as 1GB and iPad2 has only 256mb ? This will only shows that the iPad was better developed in terms of memory optimization then any another other >= 1GB device that does the exact same thing.
- Tichy 16y ago
  I suppose the article talks specs because in the keynote the specs of the competition were being dissed. Reap what you sow. Actually, the one spec that REALLY matters to me is resolution of the front facing camera. A smooth tablet is a nice gadget, but I really NEED a skype capable device for my mum, so that she can chat with her grandchildren. It seems the iPad 2 is actually losing out in that spec comparison.
  - Someone 16y ago
    I do not know anything about the quality of either device's cameras, but I do know resolution is not the way to measure camera quality. That applies even more to measuring how Skype-capable a device is. For Skype on an iPad, one could even argue that any resolution over 1024 by 768 is overkill.
    - Tichy 16y ago
      Why should the resolution be overkill? Apple just put HD webcams into their new line of MacBook Pros. The other end of the chat might be on something else than an iPad. (Also I say Skype, but Facetime might be an option in some cases, too).
  - thenduks 16y ago
    Honestly? That would have to be a really crappy camera if it wasn't good enough for basic video chatting. You wont even notice unless the resolution is lower than the resolution of the device (highly unlikely).
ary 16y ago
This is a whole load of conjecture, but the product announcements coming out of Apple for the last few years seem to be converging on a pattern. 1) Update on success / market share / etc. 2) Possible update on retail. 3) Compare product that is about to be obsoleted with its competition while putting said competition in an unfavorable light. 4) Make the magic happen and take the press to their happy place. #3 intrigues me. I can't help but wonder if casting the competition in a negative light is just an excuse for being able to talk about the competition at all. Given the possibility of government interference in any industry it is in the best interest of most businesses to maintain the perception of healthy competition. What has struck me about Apple's portrail of their competitors is that they preset what appears to be a finely tuned mix of recognition, disdain, and paranoia. It's almost as if they want you to remember that there are others out there. Any company that mops the floor with their competition is going to have to deal with the losers running off to the FTC, Congress, etc and whining about anti-competitive practices. At times Apple's presentations seem to be attempting to preempt that sort of thing. Let me preempt any emotional responses by pointing out that I'm not saying Apple/iOS is better than Google/Andriod, etc, etc. I'm saying that in terms of financial success and overall market/mind share they're doing some serious winning (and not in the Charlie Sheen sense of the word).
shareme 16y ago
SO when will the FTC catch Apple in the Truth IN Advertising gaffle..[sarcasm].. You see keynotes are not covered by FTC truth in advertising but if I was an Apple stockholder right now I would be worried about all that fibbing by Steve Jobs.
nachteilig 16y ago
When did CNN start hiring Dvorak-style Apple trolls to generate traffic?
gamble 16y ago
I was surprised to see Jobs hit Samsung with the repudiated 'quite small' quote, but at the same time Samsung hasn't exactly been eager to release their sell-through numbers. They haven't been shy about claiming their tablets are big sellers, though. Where is the condemnation of their claims that the Tab represented a third of tablet sales, when it's obvious from the near-total absence of them in the real world that they're nowhere near those numbers? If Samsung is bothered by Apple's claims, they're easy to refute - just release the numbers.
pdaviesa 16y ago
You actually expect any company representative to be truthful in what essentially amounts to a sales presentation? The naivety in these comments is astonishing - I mean, it's not like Jobs works for a non-profit doing humanitarian work in third world countries. I'm not saying it's right but this is the world we live in.
brisance 16y ago
The author must've missed the entire range of keynotes from the late 90s through the mid 2000s when the highlight of each was to have a shootout between a Power Mac and a Wintel PC at Photoshop. My memory is poor but they seemed to stop this practice maybe 5 years ago. So, this practice is really nothing new. It's marketing. Google did the same thing when they trotted out specs about how Android browsing is much faster than the iPhone during Google I/O. Horses for courses, etc.
Stormbringer 16y ago
And lo, at the slightest bit of Apple bashing in the media, suddenly the floodgates open and the hatorade pours forth. Do any of you Apple haters hold any other company to the standards you claim that Apple or Jobs has violated? No, you do not. You huff and you puff on their vapourware, but if Apple puts a single foot wrong you pounce. Why? Why the double standard? I'm not defending Apple†, and I think perhaps if all companies were held to the same high standard that you hold Apple to, the world would actually be a better place. Let's hold all companies to the same standard. †They're big enough to fight their own battles, and as I've said before they are far from perfect and there are plenty of valid things to complain about, just not the ones that people pick on (for some bizarre reason that escapes me)
- Dylanlacey 16y ago
  Part of it is pushing back on fanboyism. Neither are logical or sensible, but I believe one begets the other. If you don't overly care about Apple and the only news you hear is either "Apple did this" and "I WANT APPLES BABIES", you will start to form an overly critical view, because the news seems to always tend towards hype. And then some people (with the same fanboyish mindset as the fanboys) will start to take it too far, still as a backlash, but still just as ridiculous. You only get raging haters by either spectacular failure of delivery OR by having raging fans. People seek to balance by becoming unbalanced. I am guilty of this. I suspect a great many people are. People don't like being told that someone else is better then they are, especially when it's something they hold dear. Geeks, therefore, do not like being told that they are a poorer person for making different technology choices. This is not news, see Vim VS Emacs. As fanboyism can be quite judgmental, this gets on people's nerves, and they become defensive, lashing out at the "Cause" (being Apple). The fanboys feel that their identity is being attacked, and they fight back with equal fervor. None of this is rational or even useful, but it's just a product of social human nature. (You're right, they big enough to fight their own battles, and they're big enough to toot their own horn, but people will do it for them, so people will do it against them.)
  - Stormbringer 16y ago
    Exactly zero of the 'raging Apple fanboys' that I know go around telling people that they are bad people because they don't use Apple products. A few Apple fanboys get a bit 'preachy' about how 'awesome' Apple is when they first switch, but I've never seen an Apple fanboy call somebody a bad person as part of that process. Additionally, this desire to 'win souls' quickly wears off, and some never go through it at all. ---- Now, if you were making a sporting analogy and said that the mere existence of people who like Apple somehow causes the supporters of 'the other teams' to get more energetic in support of their team, that would make sense to me. Sports fans need the existence of other sports fans to hate and whip them into a frenzy. But (sadly) that isn't what you're doing here. You are painting the Apple fans as the bad guys by making all these assertions about their behaviour and character. Essentially, you are saying that they bring it on themselves because of their bad behaviour, and I don't believe that. It doesn't match my observations at all. ----- Let us examine your claims: the only news you hear is either "Apple did this" I dispute this as factually inaccurate. Right now, as I flick to the tab holding the front page, I see the following tally: msft 2 startup 7 rampant rails fanboyism 1 digital rights 5 linux 1.5 apple 0.5 pop psych 2 world news 1 us news 2 fitness 1 history of the world 1 intel 1 (there was a story title for android and iphone, so I gave them each partial credit). That's it. 2% of the news. 1/4 of what Microsoft is getting. Now, when you say "Apple did this" I'm going to assume you mean people bitching about how evil Apple is. E.g. the recent 30% debate. Because all I remember recently about Apple is a bunch of bashing and sledging. Essentially, you are saying that because you see people bashing Apple so often in the news, that makes you sick of Apple and want to bash them. I cannot say that I see that as a reasonable justification. Then you say the other side of the news, the pro-Apple side "I WANT APPLES BABIES" Now look. I don't know if you've ever seen any Apple ads, but they never do that. They are never garish and over the top. Oh wait, the iPod ads. Well, okay, I'll give you that one. Now I like understated ads. I liked the Microsoft ads with Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Gates, I thought they should have continued them. I like the ad where the guy is texting while peeing at the urinal, and then drops the phone and goes to retrieve it and the guy turns to him and says "really?", and the kid throws the ball at his Dad's head because he's texting instead of playing. But here Microsoft is taking a leaf out of Apple's playbook (sic). For every loud garish Apple ad, I'll see you ten Microsoft party to install Vista ads. You want annoying? There's your culprit right there. Moreover, I think you got the emphasis wrong, it is more like the two sides of the Apple news coin are like this: "I WANT APPLE TO DIE IN A FIRE" and "Hey, Apple just put out new MacBook pros" "you will start to form an overly critical view" Not critical enough by a large margin. Like I said in the first post, Apple is singled out for unequal treatment. If your view actually was properly critical you'd view each company with equal suspicion. "because the news seems to always tend towards hype" But the hysteria end of the hype scale is filled with Apple haters. Where Apple fits on the hype scale is in the 'large corporate announcing a new product' part of the scale. But even there I give Apple better marks than most IT companies, since Apple actually delivers the products they are hyping (except the white iPhone). Most other IT companies make all sorts of breathless announcements and then half the time the product that is going to lead us into the promised land of milk and honey never arrives. ... but they never get called to task for it, or if they do, with only a minuscule fraction of the rage and bile that is directed at Apple. "And then some people (with the same fanboyish mindset as the fanboys) will start to take it too far, still as a backlash" Backlash against what though? You've failed to establish the existence of raving Apple fanboys, and my experience completely disagrees with your assertion that the Apple fanboys are just as bad as the Apple bashers. "You only get raging haters by either spectacular failure of delivery" If someone says they hate Apple because they had a $mac and one day after the warranty expired it blew up and then Apple screwed them over, that would be fair enough in my book. By all means, bring Apple to task for their real sins, but unless Apple has injured you, do not bash them for imaginary sins, unless you also bash other companies equally. That is all I'm asking. "OR by having raging fans. People seek to balance by becoming unbalanced." I just don't see the raging fans. Apple is far too mainstream these days. Maybe back in the 90s with Guy Kawasaki whipping the faithful into a frenzy of religious ecstasy, but that was TWO DECADES AGO. For every Apple raging fanboy you show me, I will give you 100 Apple bashers. Let's have a look at the comments in the MSFT threads. In the first one, there are only three overt mentions of Apple. One is apparently an IE 8 fanboy bashing n IE 6 fanboy (the mind boggles), and the reference to Apple is an extremely minor point by way of an argument by analogy. The second is a response to someone who was bashing Apple, and suggesting that because they are taking 30% of subscriptions, they are unfit to serve as a replacement for Microsoft. (In response to someone saying that we should just throw out Microsoft entirely (and not just IE 6)). The overt mention of Apple is someone saying that leaving Microsoft is not the same as going to Apple, because there are other choices. The third reference is someone disputing that, saying that there are no Linux devices for sale, and that for non-technical people it is just a choice of Microsoft or Apple. (There is a response to that by a Linux fanboy, I know he's a fanboy because he misses the obvious logical retort that most Netbooks run Linux). Anyway, by my tally in these mentions of Apple there are 3 Microsoft fanboys, 1 Linux fanboy and 0 Apple fanboys. Hmmmm.... not looking so good for your theory. Perhaps the other thread will prove more fruitful? There are two overt mentions: I'll quote the first since I can't identify its fanboy classification: "Microsoft producing new software for Windows XP is like Apple doing the same for OS9." It is a little fanboyish, since it is kind of inaccurate (a better comparison would be Windows ME vs OS 9 in my view, since Microsoft introduced XP in August 2001 and (according to Wikipedia), Apple introduced OS 9 in 1999 and discontinued development on it in 2002), but never mind that nitpick. So far as I can tell, this is not Apple fanboyism, this is just someone arguing by analogy, like the first example from the first article. The second quote: "Anyway, they supported it till IE8 and MS has one of the best track records for backward compatibility(if not the best) in the industry. Just see Apple to see how quickly things are deprecated." Okay, so here Apple is being shown in a bad light. Microsoft is better than just about everyone at maintaining backwards compatibility. And the person could have said that, but no, they had to slide in a little negative dig at Apple in the process. Would you call that an example of rampant Apple fanboyism?? I hope not! You see, this is how things are. Apple fanboys as a general rule stick to their own 'turf' and don't engage in needless nerd-rages across the internet. I'll admit there is probably a low level of baiting and trolling that is going on, but not at a higher level than the last guys snide side remark about Apple. In fact, this quick survey shows enormously more Linux fanboy trolling than Apple fanboyism. If anything, it also shows that people are out there actively trying to bait the Apple fanboys, but they aren't biting. Of course, this is a limited sample, highly inaccurate, blah blah blah, but I think it goes to cast suspicion on your claims of bad behaviour by Apple fanboys. "People don't like being told that someone else is better then they are" Apple fanboys don't do this. "Geeks, therefore, do not like being told that they are a poorer person for making different technology choices." Apple fanboys don't do this. I'd happily accuse someone of making a poor technology choice if they go 'all in' with Microsoft technologies, but I wouldn't tell them they are a "poorer person" "As fanboyism can be quite judgmental" Apple fanboys don't do this. "this gets on people's nerves, and they become defensive, lashing out at the "Cause" (being Apple)" So, despite a complete and total absence of Apple 'fanboys' attacking, it is okay to go on the defensive, and the best defense is a good offense? Even in trigger happy USA you're still supposed to wait until you're attacked before retaliating with superior force. "The fanboys feel that their identity is being attacked, and they fight back with equal fervor." But there aren't any attacks. Oh, I'm not saying that if you go into a thread about Apple you won't see people arguing in Apple's favour, but there it is entirely in appropriate and in context. The very thing you claim, the moral high ground of not lashing out except in defense, is exactly what the Apple fanboys do. The very superiority you claim for Apple bashers is instead the high ground that the Apple fanboys are firmly encamped upon. It is the Apple bashers who are the clear aggressors, who attack without provocation.
aufreak3 16y ago
Look at SJ's talk as "entertainment" .. which is what practically all of Apple's products are about :) Rgd Samsung tabs, I believe the writer's choice of "last quarter" itself shows bias, 'cos the debate on what "smooth" means seems to be about post-Christmas sales. It is indeed a vague word which can be interpreted as "slow" in comparison to "faster than expected". Bottom line is that we don't know what the sales figures are with any degree of accuracy if Samsung can say "2 million sold" .. and later on add quietly "to retailers". The real bottom line is, do you care about these numbers when making your decision to get one of these things?
wglb 16y ago
First, I don't think this is really a reality distortion field. Yes, he does do it, but I think this is simply marketing. Let's clarify a little what might be going on, and I don't think that many of the commentators here are thinking this way. Have you noticed that a lot of the Apple advertising and marketing is directed towards those that already have apple products? Obviously people who favor android devices are going to be put off by this talk. But if one is already invested in Apple products, then he might be addressing that little doubt such owners might have. All of this hoopla reminds me of how for the better part of 30 years commentators were standing in line to underestimate Bill Gates. And seriously, if this kind of talk, or john gruber's columns annoy you to the extent indicated in the threads, I suggest the following alternatives: 1) Look the other way, perhaps at something pleasant. 2) Figure out why it is working for Apple: can it work for you? (And that is what you are here for, right?)
- bane 16y ago
  Have you noticed that a lot of the Apple advertising and marketing is directed towards those that already have apple products? It's an interesting point. If various analysts are correct, most of the recent purchases of Apple products have simply been existing customers moving up to the newest device, not new customers coming into the fold. I overheard a very telling conversation today where a colleague was lamenting that his teenage daughter wanted to get rid of her new iPhone 4 and get a "Droid" because all her friends were doing the same. 2) Figure out why it is working for Apple: can it work for you? Apple seems to have retention down to a Science. For the most part, people who buy Apple stuff will continue to buy Apple stuff. If some of the typical pro-Apple opinions in this thread are any indication, people will overlook almost any amount of flaws in Apple so that they can continue buying Apple stuff. That's a powerful bit of marketing, but it may not be instructive to try and analyze and duplicate since most of that effect seems tied to Steve Jobs himself (we'll see if his transition out of the company changes this, even in the dark ages while he was gone there were still loyalists who clung to their ugly, underspecced and out-of-date Performas...heck there are still people who use their Amiga 500s daily). It may be more instructive to see how: 1) Apple is losing non-computery people that they managed to bring into the fold, what's going wrong (based on the conversation I heard)? 2) How can they reverse this? 3) Where are they still growing, what are they doing right?
casschin 16y ago
At the end of the day, none of Jobs' points or of Weintraub's rebuttals have any bearing on how the quality of the product. It's really just a bunch of bickering. I just want to see the new gadgets and what they're capable of, not how much one company can one-up each other.
ryanisinallofus 16y ago
Isn't this just called marketing?
foljs 16y ago
> "First dual core tablet to ship in volume." That's funny, I tested a Dell (DELL) Streak 7, which had a dual core Nvidia Tegra 2 chip in January. They've been shipping ever since on T-Mobile. In volume. Yeah, in such "volume" that you have more chances of winning the lottery than seeing one in the wild. Dell Streak 7? Whatever, dude... The rest of the article goes downhill...
michaelpinto 16y ago
How come Fortune didn't predict the 2008 bubble? Isn't that a much worse reality distortion field that hurt too many people...
johnyqi 16y ago
It's not important what is a fact, it's important whether masses will believe him. An they will. Period. Steve Jobs is marketing expert and showman of the century plus he produced few most revolutionary products in the world. Nobody really cares whether he gets his facts right because they are completely irrelevant for majority of people. He does what it takes to sell it and it works. When it comes to stretching the truth I don't think any company out there is clean but we only notice those things with top ones.
mreine 16y ago
When will steve jobs just die already so apple can go out of business.
mreine 16y ago
die steve, just die already.
AbyCodes 16y ago
"To the author: You have been warned. Take down this article based on lies or else we will sue you. You have 24 hours to comply. Sincerely, Apple Customer Relations Posted By Apple CR, Cupertino, CA: March 7, 2011 5:41 PM " fanbois are always entertaining. Those comments there are the bread and butter of this article. I am pretty sure that, even lolcats won't hold a candle against those commenters.

513 points by ssclafani 16y ago

Lot of nitpicks and to be expected framing/number fudging by Steve, but straight up misquoting the Samsung rep was very odd. That had been widely corrected, so either Apple did not research their presentation (unlikely) or just knowingly lied (yuck).

Judson 16y ago
There is something kind of funny about a quote going from "quite small" to "quite smooth" (referencing sales numbers - as in "the numbers have been quite smooth"). It reminds me of a kid cursing in front of his mother and then twisting the sounds to create another word after he realized it, if that makes any sense.
- Kylekramer 16y ago
  ESL was the real culprit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN_w0mcDayI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN_w0mcDayI
  - tnorthcutt 16y ago
    How did anyone get "small" from that? Sounded pretty clear to me. I'm a native English speaker, and do not speak or understand any other languages.
    - Kylekramer 16y ago
      I can sort of see it. Smooth is a bit of a strange word choice. And in context she was trying to say sales were OK but not blockbuster, so small was primed in the listener's head. Especially in a blink and you'll miss it sale call. Of course, reporters should have double checked the recording, but that is understandably difficult to do in the current fast paced tech news landscape.
    - jongraehl 16y ago
      If you already expect "smooth", it is in fact impossible to hear "small" in that recording. But that doesn't mean it's impossible in general.
    - jhen095 16y ago
      Perhaps a case of selective hearing or hearing what was expected/wanted?
spooneybarger 16y ago
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
- NathanKP 16y ago
  Hanlon's razor is something I live my life by.
- coderdude 16y ago
  How much stupidity do you think is involved when billions of dollars are on the line?
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    Well, there are 435 US Congressional representatives.
  - krakensden 16y ago
    On a long enough timeline, everyone is an imbecile.
  - kmfrk 16y ago
    I'm sure Microsoft has the answer to that question. Or at least the experience.
    - coderdude 16y ago
      A cheap jab at Microsoft with no citations that doesn't even follow the conversation, in an Apple thread no less. I'm shocked.
      - kmfrk 16y ago
        I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm a Windows user. If you can't recall any egregious Microsoft failures, you're the fanboy trapped in a distortion field. Microsoft may have a lot of things going for them, but they are ginormous klutzes. Do you seriously think that there isn't stupidity involved in any billion-dollar projects and companies?
Herring 16y ago
Apple's misquote was probably more truthful than the actual quote.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
brudgers 16y ago
>"just knowingly lied" In their response to Gillis's lawsuit regarding failure of the iPhone 3G to perform as advertised - in part Apple's defense was: "Plaintiff's claims, and those of the purported class, are barred by the fact that the alleged deceptive statements were such that no reasonable person in Plaintiff's position could have reasonably relied on or misunderstood Apple's statements as claims of fact," http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/files/apples_answer_in_gillis.pdf http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/files/apples_ans...
- inklesspen 16y ago
  Yeah, the important part is in the header just before that response. "Puffing." This refers to "puffery", a common advertising/marketing term. For example, the owner of a hamburger restaurant is permitted to claim he serves "the best hamburgers in the world" without actually producing an empirical study backing it up, because that claim is puffery, and nobody would reasonably take it literally. I don't know which claim of Apple they are saying is puffery, but they do produce a lot of it ("magical" iPad, anyone?)
jsz0 16y ago
The other option is they knew the quote was wrong but the substance was accurate. The Galaxy Tab hasn't really taken off has it?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

scott_s 16y ago

You see, Apple loves to talk about specs when it is in its best interest (speeds and feeds). Generalizing, You see, [companies] love to talk about [what] is in its best interest.

jokermatt999 16y ago
And thankfully, good journalists will call them out on it. I'd argue that's an important function of journalism, even.
- scott_s 16y ago
  That's fine, but the tone of this piece was surprise that Apple would use its own marketing event to make Apple look good. Calling them out on facts is good, but there's no need to tell me that Apple will selectively present features based on how good it sells.
  - Semiapies 16y ago
    Yes. The whole pretense that Steve Jobs' "reality distortion field" is somehow remarkable is one of the weirder and lazier tropes of tech journalism.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    I think the backlash is stronger because Apple puts more into their marketing. They put a lot of effort into making everything "magical", "unforgettable", and "world changing". Naturally, some people have strong adverse reactions to that, and are going to be quite negative in an attempt to even it out, at least as they see it. It makes complete sense if you look at it as a counter/reaction to Apple's heavily positive PR.
  - kmfrk 16y ago
    “In what seems like a ritual at this point, I watched Apple's iPad 2 keynote in disbelief, noting the factual errors that kept coming up minute after minute.” The only surprise is that a journalist bothered to fact-check a Stevenote.

cwisecarver 16y ago

The misquote was the straw that broke the camel's back. Everything else in that presentation was exactly like every other presentation given by Apple or any company touting a new product: Bring up the places you're better and leave out the places you're falling down. If it wasn't for the obvious misquote, in bold type, nobody would have batted an eye.

grav1tas 16y ago

I'm curious if specs in mobile devices have become less important when the device is only supposed to do more or less what it's advertised to doand what the user bought it to do, and not much else. Apple advertises all the apps that work on the iOS line of devices, but these apps are (should be) designed to fit "inside the box" of functionality on the device. Android seems to take a different philosophical approach where users are the big deciders in what is good and appropriate for them on their devices. In the face of advertising versatility, specs do become a bigger issue...especially when you compete with multiple devices on the same platform...like PCs. Apple devices don't have the spec issue, except where it's relevant to show difference between generations of devices. At least that's my two cents. I think both platforms put forth their design philosophies pretty well, and both are respectable options for users. Why people fight over what's better so much is a source of both hilarity and sadness for me.

bostonpete 16y ago
I'm not sure I buy it, or at least that reasoning doesn't match Apple's apparent position on this. For example, at the iPhone 4 launch, the retinal display was the big topic. It would seem hard for them to then turn around and say that the better resolution of the XOOM is irrelevant. This is the first product version launch I can remember where Apple wasn't on the leading edge in terms of specs. If they launched months after the XOOM and are as far behind spec-wise as the article suggests, that seems like a big win for the XOOM (even though specs obviously probably aren't the most important factor for most potential customers).
- andyman1080 16y ago
  But the better resolution of the XOOM is irrelevant. The core value of a tablet device to the user is delivered through apps. Users tend not to care or notice how many pixels the device has, as long as there is a variety of good and inexpensive apps. Not changing the iPad 2 resolution ensures there are still 65k and counting fully compatible apps. Android tablet makers continually "one-upping" each other on specs effectively ensure that much fewer quality and compatible apps will be available for their devices.
- 16y ago

corin_ 16y ago

Completely agree. I'm not exactly an apple fanboy, but I do love my iPad, and there isn't yet a competitor's device I'd want to replace it with (although I'm hoping BlackBerry's will change that). If he had come out and given all the ways that the iPad 2 is better than the iPad, I'd have been impressed. But spending half the time criticising competitors just came across as the kind of tacky tactic that really shouldn't be needed unless you're trying to catch up to them - not if you're trying to prevent them from catching up to you. Oh, and that's just for the attacking competitors. Going even further than that, and attacking them with incorrect spin, way too far.

darthg0d 16y ago
This has been happening for quite some time. One of the earnings call last year was more of Android-bashing than a talk about Apple's successes. EDIT: I believe it was Steve doing the talk back then too.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  I think this is a sign that they're running scared a lot more than they're letting on. It's only a matter of time before the iPad style tablet becomes commoditized. Quite a few years ago, Apple was one of the design leaders in the laptop space, then others caught up, more or less. The same thing happened in the smartphone space. The same thing will happen to tablets. In a way, they are subject to the same forces that Nokia is desperately trying to escape, except Apple has been smart and positioned themselves on the forefront of each wave, where it will lift them up. Nokia rode their wave too long. Will Apple become a victim of their own success? Yes. For the record, though, I think Steve Job's "reality distortion field" is sometimes actually an anti-distortion field. I think the consensus reality has some significant distortions, which he's good at seeing through. Then again, everyone who isn't Steve might have a hard time knowing which polarity the field is set to at any given moment.
  - jonhohle 16y ago
    > Quite a few years ago, Apple was one of the design leaders in the laptop space, then others caught up, more or less. The same thing happened in the smartphone space. Who are these companies? Seriously. Have you used an Apple product side by side with a non Apple equivalent? Does any company come close to the build quality or original design of Apple? If other companies are almost catching up, it still means they are behind, and, worse, just riding on Apple's success without much idea of why they are successful.

Jun8 16y ago

How much of an Jobs/Apple hater do you have to be before you include Nook and Kindle in the tablet market to argue that the iPad share is actually close to 50?

wmeredith 16y ago
Quite a large one, I'd imagine. The Nook and Kindle are a pretty far cry from the iPad in terms of capability. To me it seems like it's a very close parallel to a smart phone vs. a feature phone.
- NickPollard 16y ago
  So you're saying the iPad has sold more than 90% of all devices that are like iPads? Seems verging on tautological to me.
  - mambodog 16y ago
    I'm pretty sure there's room for a distinction between iPad-style media/web tablets and the simpler "reader" type ones like the Kindle and Nook.
    - NickPollard 16y ago
      I'm not arguing that, but remember the nook-color has internet, wifi, games and an app-store. Is that an e-reader or a tablet? (Note: that's all if you don't root it, those who do can do pretty much anything on it that android can do)
      - lukifer 16y ago
        The iPad does compete with the Kindle, but they are clearly in different product categories. However, I'm inclined to agree that the Nook is closer to the iPad than the Kindle, without even having to root it.
  - pmjordan 16y ago

martythemaniak 16y ago

Well, there wasn't too much to talk about other than these lies. "We got the iPad2. Same hardware you saw at CES, same OS you saw last year. Have a good day everybody"

rbarooah 16y ago
The iPad 2 hardware was shown at CES?

js4all 16y ago

Since when is it not okay for a company the emphasize the pluses over the competition and leave out what's not so good. This is common practice. If you want a full comparison, you have to do it yourself or use independent tests. I always rely on my own tests, if possible. Mr. Job's keynotes are rhetorically first class and most people can't wait to get hands on the products after they have seen the show. This is no reality distortion, this is perfect marketing.

egor83 16y ago
Just emphasizing is not a big deal. Giving numbers that are outright wrong is a problem. This is common practice. "Everyone does that" is no excuse.
- rbarooah 16y ago
  Which numbers were outright wrong?
  - egor83 16y ago
    The claim about 90% market share. Price comparison, while not outright wrong, is still stretching the truth a bit. "Smooth/small" thing too.
    - rbarooah 16y ago
      I don't see how the 90% market share statement is wrong unless you include boxes sitting in warehouses or returned products as 'sold'. What's wrong with the price comparison? I agree that the smooth/small thing was underhanded, although let's not forget that that statement was made as Samsung admitted that they hadn't actually sold 2m devices as they had previously claimed.
      - egor83 16y ago
        1) I don't see how the 90% market share statement is wrong From the article: Apple sold 14.8 mln iPads. Samsung sold 2 mln Tabs. Do you imply that these figures are not correct? If so, please provide better data. But if we use these figures, Apple has 14.8 / (14.8 + 2) ~ 88% market share, and a claim about "> 90%" is outright wrong. Please note that no other competitors were included in this count. 2) What's wrong with the price comparison? "Jobs compared the most expensive Android tablet -- the XOOM --against the iPad. ... The XOOM's are simply better. It has (expandable) 32GB of storage built in and 3G built in ... XOOM has a much better, bigger 720P+ screen ... Then, add far superior cameras (w/flash), stereo speakers (iPad 2 has one), 4G and a micro-USB/SD Card reader", plus (possibly) more RAM. One pays more for XOOM, but one gets more (EDIT - in terms of components. I'm not saying XOOMs have better design/software/etc) as well. Jobs compares prices for devices with different specs.

Tycho 16y ago

Somebody rebutted the points in one of the comments: none of the dual-core are really shipping over 100 000 a month (threshold for volume considering iPad ships 1,000,000 per month); Samsung admitted miscalculating their end-sales; iPad 2 has some intense minitiarisation, which as with other 'features/improvements' doesn't come free; Apple bore the entire cost of developing the OS themselves; Kindles, Nooks etc. aren't tablets. Not sure if his/her points were sound, just reporting them.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
- Tycho 16y ago
  are there really millions of Galaxy Tab users? Anyway, I don't think it's that 'devious' of a lie considering the iPad 2 will simply replace the iPad line, which sells 1 million per month, and will probably do more with the new device. It's not technically true just yet, but it almost certainly will be in a month's time. It would be different if the iPad 2 was a whole new product line.
  - dean 16y ago
    It's not technically true just yet, but it almost certainly will be in a month's time. Well, let him say it in a month's time. Until then, it's not true -- technically or otherwise.
    - tnorthcutt 16y ago
      Well, let him say it in a month's time. Until then, it's not true -- technically or otherwise. It's what Mr. Jobs likes to call a "future-truth".
    - albedoa 16y ago
      By your standard, he shouldn't make a future claim even if the certainty is 100% because it hasn't happened yet. Most of us don't even hold ourselves to that standard, and I wonder if you do.

stcredzero 16y ago

That's not including all of the Android-powered Nooks out there, I like the look of those. those cheap $100 Androids you can buy at Walgreens or Amazon Those aren't doing Android any favors. and even Windows-powered Tablet PCs (which are mentioned two bullet points above!). Have one of those. While it is great that I can use any Windows software I want on it, I only use the iPad nowadays. It's just more comfortable to use. Not sure they're the same category as the iPad.

dr_ 16y ago

Disagree, although it was wrong for Job's to misquote Samsung. Regardless, just because Samsung's tablet sales are "smooth" rather than "small" that doesn't mean that it's selling particularly well. It's not. Nor is the Xoom. I mean c'mon, honestly how many people do you know who own a Galaxy tab or a Xoom? Or anyone who is even really looking forward to buying one? And now how many people do you know who own an iPad or plan to purchase one? Exactly. Jobs didn't even need to waste his time attacking his competitors. To be honest I, like most people out there probably, never even heard of the Samsung quote until he brought it up, so he may have even given them more credibility now. And the smart phone game isn't over. Nobody I know who live in other countries wants an Android phone. They want an iPhone. But a lot of people can't afford it. Trust me that will change too.

Enlightenment 16y ago
ha ha, good one.
Enlightenment 16y ago
ha ha, good one.

Bud 16y ago

It's a bit hard to take CNN seriously as a tech commentator, frankly. They published this today: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/03/03/missing.from.ipad2.taylor/index.html?hpt=C2 http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/03/03/missing.fr... I've rarely seen a tech article that was less useful or more silly.

corin_ 16y ago
Not sure why you chose to justify criticising CNN with a single article that was written by a guest, who happens to actually work for Mashable. I don't read CNN regularly so I won't argue for or against CNN's tech coverage, but if you want to argue against it you should try a little harder.
- Bud 16y ago
  I think the article referenced in the current thread makes for a pretty good second data point. The author tries to pretend that sales "into the channel" are real sales (they aren't, of course). He pretends that all RAM is equal and directly comparable (on-die RAM is clearly superior). He pretends that megapixels in cameras that are a few mm in size is a hugely important measurement of camera quality (it's not). He pretends that the Nook and Kindle are at all comparable to the iPad or even in the same product category (they manifestly aren't). He pretends that all dual-core CPUs are equivalent (which is laughable). I can't remember the last CNN tech article that I found to be insightful or informative. By contrast, I read a few dozen things via Hacker News daily that pass muster.
hornokplease 16y ago
The linked article is from Fortune Magazine, although it lives on a cnn.com domain. Considerably more credible in my opinion. The author, Seth Weintraub, also owns the Apple-focused blog 9to5mac.com

nopal 16y ago

Are we really debating whether a CEO over-hyped his product in a keynote? Next we'll be taking apart a sales rep for saying his product is better than its competitors.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
lwhi 16y ago
There's a difference between over-hyping and telling lies.
- bonch 16y ago
  I saw nothing that constituted a "lie." This is an article from an obvious Android fan (looking at Seth Weintraub's other articles, it's all Google, all the time) who didn't like that Apple took some shots at competing tablets. I have to agree with one of the comments to the article that says Android fanboys are as bad as Apple fanboys, maybe even worse because they act like the fact Android is open source is some great benevolent act of morality--Google is simply an advertising company giving people free services in order to index their data for contxt-sensitive advertising space. I imagine that a lot of Apple competitors and their fans were upset at the iPad 2 announcement, because it really seems as if will be another hit.
  - lwhi 16y ago
    I often wonder whether there's anything that Apple could do that might make the faithful admit they've done something wrong. Once again, this is one of those times. Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
  - vacri 16y ago
    I've only just entered the smartphone market (android phone 3 weeks ago) but before I had a horse in the race, as a neutral observer, Apple fanboys were worse than Android ones. Android fanboy bitchiness seems to be a reaction to Apple marketroid guff. It doesn't self-generate and invade your mindspace. Apple marketing and culture does. Fanboys are annoying everywhere, but in the absence of mention of competition, Apple on other people's devices demands more of my mental space than Android does.

kmfrk 16y ago

It's a great piece, but I don't agree that Jobs focuses on specs. Apple is great in that they do their utmost to explain what is good about their products and simplifying the purchase and customization options for the user. The iPhone 4 wasn't interesting because it had x more DPI clocking in at a total of y; it was interesting, because they had achieved so many DPI that the average person would not be able to discern the pixels. The Android handset manufacturers are losing the marketing battle partly because they get caught up in numbers and data: x megapixel cameras, y RAM, z megahertz. To the average consumer, all these extra parameters to consider before buying a product makes it all the less likely and rewarding to pick out your next phone.

nooneelse 16y ago
> "The iPhone 4 wasn't interesting because it had x more DPI clocking in at a total of y; it was interesting, because they had achieved so many DPI that the average person would not be able to discern the pixels." That measure of achievement is entirely dependent on the distance between the eyes and the screen. I went around measuring a couple of days, many people with smart phones already had non-discernible pixels at the distance they held them in late 2009, before the iPhone4 (by Apple's measure of non-discernible). Why pick one arbitrary distance over another and call that the interesting transition?

Bud 16y ago

Let's just take the bull by the horns here. Seth Weintraub's first sentence in this article, and ostensibly his main point, is: "Apple twisted facts (or worse) to try to convince crowds that all other tablets had no shot at de-throning the iPad in 2011." I'll put up $100 right now that says no competitor will sell more units than the iPad this year. I'd be surprised if anyone cracked 50%. Does anyone seriously doubt that the iPad will kill its competition this year? I think it's pretty obvious. Weintraub is just dreaming if he thinks otherwise. So who's guilty of reality distortion, here?

rosser 16y ago
The guy who outright lied?
- rbarooah 16y ago
  You mean Weintraub? He knows for certain that Samsung didn't sell 2 million tabs, because Samsung made a statement saying that, yet he pretends that they did. This kind of journalism is part of the problem - not the solution.
  - jongraehl 16y ago
    So they both lied.
    - rbarooah 16y ago
      Aside from the Samsung misquote, what did Jobs say that could be called a lie?
      - burgerbrain 16y ago
        You're a little slow, aren't you?

fredBuddemeyer 16y ago

ill never understand why someone so far ahead lowers himself like this. in american politics this is what a vice president is for.

henrymazza 16y ago

Case is it's a bad article by a frenetic journalist. Bad written and more biased than Jobs. His 90% "math" is ridiculous.

runjake 16y ago

Link bait. I'm tempted to label the author a "socialist", keeping with recent trends. Apple markets well. Other people market and make similar claims. Your soap, your window cleaner, your vitamins, your TV set. It's the nature of our culture, our marketing, and our capitalism. Why is this a me vs. you thing? Corporations selling Android devices do it, too. Check out any Android-based "4G" device on AT&T: 1) virtually no one actually has "4G" coverage, and upload speeds are HORRIBLE on 3G (allegedly because AT&T or the OEMs decided to disable HSUPA on these devices for god knows what reason). Why must Apple always be called out like this? Because they do it so much better than their competitors. If you don't like this, I urge you not to buy their products.

recoiledsnake 16y ago
>Why must Apple always be called out like this? Because they do it so much better than their competitors. Because this announcement gets more press than almost anything else you stated.
- runjake 16y ago
  You just reiterated my point that you quoted.
burgerbrain 16y ago
"I'm tempted to label the author a "socialist"" And you really tempt me to label you something actually derogatory. The 50s called, they want you back.
- runjake 16y ago
  Uhm, are you serious? It's tongue-in-cheek, hence the "keep with trends" quip.
raganwald 16y ago
When did "Socialist" become an insult? I don't admit to it, I boast of it!! http://raganwald.posterous.com/hello-my-name-is-reginald-and-i-am-a-socialis http://raganwald.posterous.com/hello-my-name-is-reginald-and...

kill-9 16y ago

How does a link like this make it to the top of HN? It's nothing more than petty, spiteful Apple bashing by a Google guy.

jrockway 16y ago
Isn't the whole keynote "petty, spiteful Google bashing" by an "Apple guy"? Jobs intentionally misquoted someone to make himself look better at a talk with his customers and investors. An article pointing that out is not "bashing".
- rimantas 16y ago
  Care to elaborate, how was Google bashed in the demo of Garage Band, iMovie, Smart Cover? Was Google even mentioned?
  - jrockway 16y ago
    I chose that wording to parody the comment I was replying to. When you see wording in a reply that is very similar to wording in the original comment, you should switch your language processing unit from the "analyze exact literal meaning" mode to the "read for entertainment value" mode. From a strictly literal standpoint, Jobs made a lot of jabs at the competition for iOS, which is phones and tablets running Android now. Android is developed by Google. A specific comment would be the misquote of Samsung's CEO. Samsung is not Google, but you can see how Google is involved; they make the OS that the Samsung tablets run.
    - rimantas 16y ago
      OK, point taken. The misquote thing is interesting. It causes (rightfully, I guess) a lot of noise, but to be fair: Jobs is not the author of misquote IIRC, and then we don't know if that version of the quote is a lie, Samsung does not give the numbers. Choosing to quote incorrect version over the "smooth" version knowingly is indeed fishy, no matter the factual accuracy.
    - 16y ago

gaiusparx 16y ago

I'm not sure why an article to rant about a common marketing practice? Earnings call bashing Android, Google IO attacks Apple, so on and on. Is Steve reaching the status of a saint and not allow to bash?

phatbyte 16y ago

I hate when people compare Apple products specs with the other competitors. I mean, if a device runs smooth including apps, and no crashes. Why the hell do I need to know if Xoom as 1GB and iPad2 has only 256mb ? This will only shows that the iPad was better developed in terms of memory optimization then any another other >= 1GB device that does the exact same thing.

Tichy 16y ago
I suppose the article talks specs because in the keynote the specs of the competition were being dissed. Reap what you sow. Actually, the one spec that REALLY matters to me is resolution of the front facing camera. A smooth tablet is a nice gadget, but I really NEED a skype capable device for my mum, so that she can chat with her grandchildren. It seems the iPad 2 is actually losing out in that spec comparison.
- Someone 16y ago
  I do not know anything about the quality of either device's cameras, but I do know resolution is not the way to measure camera quality. That applies even more to measuring how Skype-capable a device is. For Skype on an iPad, one could even argue that any resolution over 1024 by 768 is overkill.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    Why should the resolution be overkill? Apple just put HD webcams into their new line of MacBook Pros. The other end of the chat might be on something else than an iPad. (Also I say Skype, but Facetime might be an option in some cases, too).
- thenduks 16y ago
  Honestly? That would have to be a really crappy camera if it wasn't good enough for basic video chatting. You wont even notice unless the resolution is lower than the resolution of the device (highly unlikely).

ary 16y ago

This is a whole load of conjecture, but the product announcements coming out of Apple for the last few years seem to be converging on a pattern. 1) Update on success / market share / etc. 2) Possible update on retail. 3) Compare product that is about to be obsoleted with its competition while putting said competition in an unfavorable light. 4) Make the magic happen and take the press to their happy place. #3 intrigues me. I can't help but wonder if casting the competition in a negative light is just an excuse for being able to talk about the competition at all. Given the possibility of government interference in any industry it is in the best interest of most businesses to maintain the perception of healthy competition. What has struck me about Apple's portrail of their competitors is that they preset what appears to be a finely tuned mix of recognition, disdain, and paranoia. It's almost as if they want you to remember that there are others out there. Any company that mops the floor with their competition is going to have to deal with the losers running off to the FTC, Congress, etc and whining about anti-competitive practices. At times Apple's presentations seem to be attempting to preempt that sort of thing. Let me preempt any emotional responses by pointing out that I'm not saying Apple/iOS is better than Google/Andriod, etc, etc. I'm saying that in terms of financial success and overall market/mind share they're doing some serious winning (and not in the Charlie Sheen sense of the word).

shareme 16y ago

SO when will the FTC catch Apple in the Truth IN Advertising gaffle..[sarcasm].. You see keynotes are not covered by FTC truth in advertising but if I was an Apple stockholder right now I would be worried about all that fibbing by Steve Jobs.

nachteilig 16y ago

When did CNN start hiring Dvorak-style Apple trolls to generate traffic?

gamble 16y ago

I was surprised to see Jobs hit Samsung with the repudiated 'quite small' quote, but at the same time Samsung hasn't exactly been eager to release their sell-through numbers. They haven't been shy about claiming their tablets are big sellers, though. Where is the condemnation of their claims that the Tab represented a third of tablet sales, when it's obvious from the near-total absence of them in the real world that they're nowhere near those numbers? If Samsung is bothered by Apple's claims, they're easy to refute - just release the numbers.

pdaviesa 16y ago

You actually expect any company representative to be truthful in what essentially amounts to a sales presentation? The naivety in these comments is astonishing - I mean, it's not like Jobs works for a non-profit doing humanitarian work in third world countries. I'm not saying it's right but this is the world we live in.

brisance 16y ago

The author must've missed the entire range of keynotes from the late 90s through the mid 2000s when the highlight of each was to have a shootout between a Power Mac and a Wintel PC at Photoshop. My memory is poor but they seemed to stop this practice maybe 5 years ago. So, this practice is really nothing new. It's marketing. Google did the same thing when they trotted out specs about how Android browsing is much faster than the iPhone during Google I/O. Horses for courses, etc.

Stormbringer 16y ago

And lo, at the slightest bit of Apple bashing in the media, suddenly the floodgates open and the hatorade pours forth. Do any of you Apple haters hold any other company to the standards you claim that Apple or Jobs has violated? No, you do not. You huff and you puff on their vapourware, but if Apple puts a single foot wrong you pounce. Why? Why the double standard? I'm not defending Apple†, and I think perhaps if all companies were held to the same high standard that you hold Apple to, the world would actually be a better place. Let's hold all companies to the same standard. †They're big enough to fight their own battles, and as I've said before they are far from perfect and there are plenty of valid things to complain about, just not the ones that people pick on (for some bizarre reason that escapes me)

Dylanlacey 16y ago
Part of it is pushing back on fanboyism. Neither are logical or sensible, but I believe one begets the other. If you don't overly care about Apple and the only news you hear is either "Apple did this" and "I WANT APPLES BABIES", you will start to form an overly critical view, because the news seems to always tend towards hype. And then some people (with the same fanboyish mindset as the fanboys) will start to take it too far, still as a backlash, but still just as ridiculous. You only get raging haters by either spectacular failure of delivery OR by having raging fans. People seek to balance by becoming unbalanced. I am guilty of this. I suspect a great many people are. People don't like being told that someone else is better then they are, especially when it's something they hold dear. Geeks, therefore, do not like being told that they are a poorer person for making different technology choices. This is not news, see Vim VS Emacs. As fanboyism can be quite judgmental, this gets on people's nerves, and they become defensive, lashing out at the "Cause" (being Apple). The fanboys feel that their identity is being attacked, and they fight back with equal fervor. None of this is rational or even useful, but it's just a product of social human nature. (You're right, they big enough to fight their own battles, and they're big enough to toot their own horn, but people will do it for them, so people will do it against them.)
- Stormbringer 16y ago
  Exactly zero of the 'raging Apple fanboys' that I know go around telling people that they are bad people because they don't use Apple products. A few Apple fanboys get a bit 'preachy' about how 'awesome' Apple is when they first switch, but I've never seen an Apple fanboy call somebody a bad person as part of that process. Additionally, this desire to 'win souls' quickly wears off, and some never go through it at all. ---- Now, if you were making a sporting analogy and said that the mere existence of people who like Apple somehow causes the supporters of 'the other teams' to get more energetic in support of their team, that would make sense to me. Sports fans need the existence of other sports fans to hate and whip them into a frenzy. But (sadly) that isn't what you're doing here. You are painting the Apple fans as the bad guys by making all these assertions about their behaviour and character. Essentially, you are saying that they bring it on themselves because of their bad behaviour, and I don't believe that. It doesn't match my observations at all. ----- Let us examine your claims: the only news you hear is either "Apple did this" I dispute this as factually inaccurate. Right now, as I flick to the tab holding the front page, I see the following tally: msft 2 startup 7 rampant rails fanboyism 1 digital rights 5 linux 1.5 apple 0.5 pop psych 2 world news 1 us news 2 fitness 1 history of the world 1 intel 1 (there was a story title for android and iphone, so I gave them each partial credit). That's it. 2% of the news. 1/4 of what Microsoft is getting. Now, when you say "Apple did this" I'm going to assume you mean people bitching about how evil Apple is. E.g. the recent 30% debate. Because all I remember recently about Apple is a bunch of bashing and sledging. Essentially, you are saying that because you see people bashing Apple so often in the news, that makes you sick of Apple and want to bash them. I cannot say that I see that as a reasonable justification. Then you say the other side of the news, the pro-Apple side "I WANT APPLES BABIES" Now look. I don't know if you've ever seen any Apple ads, but they never do that. They are never garish and over the top. Oh wait, the iPod ads. Well, okay, I'll give you that one. Now I like understated ads. I liked the Microsoft ads with Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Gates, I thought they should have continued them. I like the ad where the guy is texting while peeing at the urinal, and then drops the phone and goes to retrieve it and the guy turns to him and says "really?", and the kid throws the ball at his Dad's head because he's texting instead of playing. But here Microsoft is taking a leaf out of Apple's playbook (sic). For every loud garish Apple ad, I'll see you ten Microsoft party to install Vista ads. You want annoying? There's your culprit right there. Moreover, I think you got the emphasis wrong, it is more like the two sides of the Apple news coin are like this: "I WANT APPLE TO DIE IN A FIRE" and "Hey, Apple just put out new MacBook pros" "you will start to form an overly critical view" Not critical enough by a large margin. Like I said in the first post, Apple is singled out for unequal treatment. If your view actually was properly critical you'd view each company with equal suspicion. "because the news seems to always tend towards hype" But the hysteria end of the hype scale is filled with Apple haters. Where Apple fits on the hype scale is in the 'large corporate announcing a new product' part of the scale. But even there I give Apple better marks than most IT companies, since Apple actually delivers the products they are hyping (except the white iPhone). Most other IT companies make all sorts of breathless announcements and then half the time the product that is going to lead us into the promised land of milk and honey never arrives. ... but they never get called to task for it, or if they do, with only a minuscule fraction of the rage and bile that is directed at Apple. "And then some people (with the same fanboyish mindset as the fanboys) will start to take it too far, still as a backlash" Backlash against what though? You've failed to establish the existence of raving Apple fanboys, and my experience completely disagrees with your assertion that the Apple fanboys are just as bad as the Apple bashers. "You only get raging haters by either spectacular failure of delivery" If someone says they hate Apple because they had a $mac and one day after the warranty expired it blew up and then Apple screwed them over, that would be fair enough in my book. By all means, bring Apple to task for their real sins, but unless Apple has injured you, do not bash them for imaginary sins, unless you also bash other companies equally. That is all I'm asking. "OR by having raging fans. People seek to balance by becoming unbalanced." I just don't see the raging fans. Apple is far too mainstream these days. Maybe back in the 90s with Guy Kawasaki whipping the faithful into a frenzy of religious ecstasy, but that was TWO DECADES AGO. For every Apple raging fanboy you show me, I will give you 100 Apple bashers. Let's have a look at the comments in the MSFT threads. In the first one, there are only three overt mentions of Apple. One is apparently an IE 8 fanboy bashing n IE 6 fanboy (the mind boggles), and the reference to Apple is an extremely minor point by way of an argument by analogy. The second is a response to someone who was bashing Apple, and suggesting that because they are taking 30% of subscriptions, they are unfit to serve as a replacement for Microsoft. (In response to someone saying that we should just throw out Microsoft entirely (and not just IE 6)). The overt mention of Apple is someone saying that leaving Microsoft is not the same as going to Apple, because there are other choices. The third reference is someone disputing that, saying that there are no Linux devices for sale, and that for non-technical people it is just a choice of Microsoft or Apple. (There is a response to that by a Linux fanboy, I know he's a fanboy because he misses the obvious logical retort that most Netbooks run Linux). Anyway, by my tally in these mentions of Apple there are 3 Microsoft fanboys, 1 Linux fanboy and 0 Apple fanboys. Hmmmm.... not looking so good for your theory. Perhaps the other thread will prove more fruitful? There are two overt mentions: I'll quote the first since I can't identify its fanboy classification: "Microsoft producing new software for Windows XP is like Apple doing the same for OS9." It is a little fanboyish, since it is kind of inaccurate (a better comparison would be Windows ME vs OS 9 in my view, since Microsoft introduced XP in August 2001 and (according to Wikipedia), Apple introduced OS 9 in 1999 and discontinued development on it in 2002), but never mind that nitpick. So far as I can tell, this is not Apple fanboyism, this is just someone arguing by analogy, like the first example from the first article. The second quote: "Anyway, they supported it till IE8 and MS has one of the best track records for backward compatibility(if not the best) in the industry. Just see Apple to see how quickly things are deprecated." Okay, so here Apple is being shown in a bad light. Microsoft is better than just about everyone at maintaining backwards compatibility. And the person could have said that, but no, they had to slide in a little negative dig at Apple in the process. Would you call that an example of rampant Apple fanboyism?? I hope not! You see, this is how things are. Apple fanboys as a general rule stick to their own 'turf' and don't engage in needless nerd-rages across the internet. I'll admit there is probably a low level of baiting and trolling that is going on, but not at a higher level than the last guys snide side remark about Apple. In fact, this quick survey shows enormously more Linux fanboy trolling than Apple fanboyism. If anything, it also shows that people are out there actively trying to bait the Apple fanboys, but they aren't biting. Of course, this is a limited sample, highly inaccurate, blah blah blah, but I think it goes to cast suspicion on your claims of bad behaviour by Apple fanboys. "People don't like being told that someone else is better then they are" Apple fanboys don't do this. "Geeks, therefore, do not like being told that they are a poorer person for making different technology choices." Apple fanboys don't do this. I'd happily accuse someone of making a poor technology choice if they go 'all in' with Microsoft technologies, but I wouldn't tell them they are a "poorer person" "As fanboyism can be quite judgmental" Apple fanboys don't do this. "this gets on people's nerves, and they become defensive, lashing out at the "Cause" (being Apple)" So, despite a complete and total absence of Apple 'fanboys' attacking, it is okay to go on the defensive, and the best defense is a good offense? Even in trigger happy USA you're still supposed to wait until you're attacked before retaliating with superior force. "The fanboys feel that their identity is being attacked, and they fight back with equal fervor." But there aren't any attacks. Oh, I'm not saying that if you go into a thread about Apple you won't see people arguing in Apple's favour, but there it is entirely in appropriate and in context. The very thing you claim, the moral high ground of not lashing out except in defense, is exactly what the Apple fanboys do. The very superiority you claim for Apple bashers is instead the high ground that the Apple fanboys are firmly encamped upon. It is the Apple bashers who are the clear aggressors, who attack without provocation.

aufreak3 16y ago

Look at SJ's talk as "entertainment" .. which is what practically all of Apple's products are about :) Rgd Samsung tabs, I believe the writer's choice of "last quarter" itself shows bias, 'cos the debate on what "smooth" means seems to be about post-Christmas sales. It is indeed a vague word which can be interpreted as "slow" in comparison to "faster than expected". Bottom line is that we don't know what the sales figures are with any degree of accuracy if Samsung can say "2 million sold" .. and later on add quietly "to retailers". The real bottom line is, do you care about these numbers when making your decision to get one of these things?

wglb 16y ago

First, I don't think this is really a reality distortion field. Yes, he does do it, but I think this is simply marketing. Let's clarify a little what might be going on, and I don't think that many of the commentators here are thinking this way. Have you noticed that a lot of the Apple advertising and marketing is directed towards those that already have apple products? Obviously people who favor android devices are going to be put off by this talk. But if one is already invested in Apple products, then he might be addressing that little doubt such owners might have. All of this hoopla reminds me of how for the better part of 30 years commentators were standing in line to underestimate Bill Gates. And seriously, if this kind of talk, or john gruber's columns annoy you to the extent indicated in the threads, I suggest the following alternatives: 1) Look the other way, perhaps at something pleasant. 2) Figure out why it is working for Apple: can it work for you? (And that is what you are here for, right?)

bane 16y ago
Have you noticed that a lot of the Apple advertising and marketing is directed towards those that already have apple products? It's an interesting point. If various analysts are correct, most of the recent purchases of Apple products have simply been existing customers moving up to the newest device, not new customers coming into the fold. I overheard a very telling conversation today where a colleague was lamenting that his teenage daughter wanted to get rid of her new iPhone 4 and get a "Droid" because all her friends were doing the same. 2) Figure out why it is working for Apple: can it work for you? Apple seems to have retention down to a Science. For the most part, people who buy Apple stuff will continue to buy Apple stuff. If some of the typical pro-Apple opinions in this thread are any indication, people will overlook almost any amount of flaws in Apple so that they can continue buying Apple stuff. That's a powerful bit of marketing, but it may not be instructive to try and analyze and duplicate since most of that effect seems tied to Steve Jobs himself (we'll see if his transition out of the company changes this, even in the dark ages while he was gone there were still loyalists who clung to their ugly, underspecced and out-of-date Performas...heck there are still people who use their Amiga 500s daily). It may be more instructive to see how: 1) Apple is losing non-computery people that they managed to bring into the fold, what's going wrong (based on the conversation I heard)? 2) How can they reverse this? 3) Where are they still growing, what are they doing right?

casschin 16y ago

At the end of the day, none of Jobs' points or of Weintraub's rebuttals have any bearing on how the quality of the product. It's really just a bunch of bickering. I just want to see the new gadgets and what they're capable of, not how much one company can one-up each other.

ryanisinallofus 16y ago

Isn't this just called marketing?

foljs 16y ago

> "First dual core tablet to ship in volume." That's funny, I tested a Dell (DELL) Streak 7, which had a dual core Nvidia Tegra 2 chip in January. They've been shipping ever since on T-Mobile. In volume. Yeah, in such "volume" that you have more chances of winning the lottery than seeing one in the wild. Dell Streak 7? Whatever, dude... The rest of the article goes downhill...

michaelpinto 16y ago

How come Fortune didn't predict the 2008 bubble? Isn't that a much worse reality distortion field that hurt too many people...

johnyqi 16y ago

It's not important what is a fact, it's important whether masses will believe him. An they will. Period. Steve Jobs is marketing expert and showman of the century plus he produced few most revolutionary products in the world. Nobody really cares whether he gets his facts right because they are completely irrelevant for majority of people. He does what it takes to sell it and it works. When it comes to stretching the truth I don't think any company out there is clean but we only notice those things with top ones.

mreine 16y ago

When will steve jobs just die already so apple can go out of business.

mreine 16y ago

die steve, just die already.

AbyCodes 16y ago

"To the author: You have been warned. Take down this article based on lies or else we will sue you. You have 24 hours to comply. Sincerely, Apple Customer Relations Posted By Apple CR, Cupertino, CA: March 7, 2011 5:41 PM " fanbois are always entertaining. Those comments there are the bread and butter of this article. I am pretty sure that, even lolcats won't hold a candle against those commenters.