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Anyone who thinks this will “go away” eventually is naive. We don’t even have a definition for what the end of the pandemic looks like, nevermind an exit strate

Anyone who thinks this will “go away” eventually is naive. We don’t even have a definition for what the end of the pandemic looks like, nevermind an exit strategy for social distancing or these draconian tracking measures. It’s optional until it’s not, and it’s anonymous until it’s not. I don’t like this one bit.

iso1210 7y ago
The problem is that the public are fully on the side of the Stassi -- clammouring for police to arrest people in their front gardens, confiscating inappropriate food etc. This is how liberty dies, with thunderous aplause
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Where are you in the World, in my locality (South-West UK) your description doesn't appear to fit. Wanting lockdown to be enforced strongly doesn't mean one is for totalitarianism. Strong inhibition of movement is necessary.
  - dogma1138 7y ago
    Considering that I’ve only heard these stories in the UK I’m guessing the GP is in the UK as well. And I agree the media and the public are mocking the police that does this and are quite outraged. Social distancing is to stop large gatherings not to put people in isolation. I have no problems with using technology to do contact tracing as long as there are sufficient controls around it, it’s extremely difficult to do contact tracing without it especially since people not only forget but outright lie.
    - iso1210 7y ago
      The UK government has proved it can't be trusted with that technology, neither can google. I'm disappointed that apple have bought into this panic. And yes, in the UK the local busybodies are complaining about people walking down the road in fancy dress, and families out together for a walk
      - xorfish 7y ago
        Have you taken a closer look at the technology? https://github.com/DP-3T/documents https://github.com/DP-3T/documents The nice thing about this technology is, that it will stop working as soon as there are no more cases.
        TechBro8615 7y ago
        While it's very encouraging that the (current) technology is being developed by such a capable group, there are plenty of tangential worries to be had, especially if this is viewed as a "foot in the door." Who's to say such an emphasis will be placed on privacy going forward? Ultimately, this is the government and large corporations conditioning people to being tracked on an ongoing basis and blindly self-isolating themselves because they got a notification on their phone. It may be opt-in and privacy-preserving now, but my experience with governments suggests that's unlikely to remain the case for long.
    - op00to 7y ago
      You’re so wrong. Virus can still spread in small groups. The only way to gain control is isolating living groups. Sorry you don’t like it.
  - finnthehuman 7y ago
    >> The problem is that the public are fully on the side of the Stassi -- clammouring for police to arrest people in their front gardens, confiscating inappropriate food etc. >in my locality (South-West UK) your description doesn't appear to fit. oi mate, you got a loicense for that opinion?
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      Yes! There's an implicit "for me" somewhere in that sentence. Do you find it contrary?
      - finnthehuman 7y ago
        No, I just find it funny to see someone from the UK to react to a post about the threat to creeping authoritarianism with "not happening here." Also, on a slightly related note: After this pandemic quarantine lifts I have work travel to Newcastle. How do I go about getting a masturbation loicense? Everything I know about your system of local government I've learned from TV; so I know nothing about your system of local government. Do I have to go directly to the ISP? Will my Verizon SIM card work like it does in Saudi Arabia and give me real internet even though the local company who's towers I'm roaming on has filtered internet?
IAmEveryone 7y ago
This whole scheme is vastly more complex than strictly needed just to make it anonymous. It takes a bit of motivated reasoning to see this as evidence of bad faith. Also: this is part of the “missing” exit strategy for social distancing. It doesn’t even make sense in a world in lockdown, because there wouldn’t be any contact data to trace. I wish people would remember that “slippery slope” is a fallacy as easily as they do with those that support their believes.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  There is no full lockdown nearly anywhere you can still go to shops, exercise and go to work if you are a key worker or you do not work in a public facing business. People over estimate the extent of the lockdown in many countries.
  - op00to 7y ago
    Just because you can does not mean you should.
dirtyid 7y ago
This "going away" is more likely in some places than others depending on legislation and entrenched interests. That said, it's probably going to stick around in the US, if anything pandemic watch is going to be the next TSA where unfathomable resources will be diverted. The only rival to US security lobby is the US medical lobby. Though it'll probably be more useful than security theater in the long run.
- KKKKkkkk1 7y ago
  The only rival to US security lobby is the US medical lobby. Though it'll probably be more useful than security theater in the long run. Given how big pharma's previous big win gave us the opioid crisis, I wouldn't count on it.
KKKKkkkk1 7y ago
Let's put aside the question whether the pandemic will end in June or September or whenever. Take the example of the National Raisin Reserve. Established 1949, abolished 2015. These things, once they're in force, are quite hard to roll back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Raisin_Reserve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Raisin_Reserve
maxerickson 7y ago
Phone locations are already heavily tracked. It's naive to think otherwise. As @Pinboard is repeatedly pointing out, the choice isn't between being tracked and not being tracked, it's between using data that is already collected to fight the virus and not using the data to fight the virus. (this scheme is different than what phone operators collect, but phone operators are out there collecting)

iso1210 7y ago

The problem is that the public are fully on the side of the Stassi -- clammouring for police to arrest people in their front gardens, confiscating inappropriate food etc. This is how liberty dies, with thunderous aplause

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Where are you in the World, in my locality (South-West UK) your description doesn't appear to fit. Wanting lockdown to be enforced strongly doesn't mean one is for totalitarianism. Strong inhibition of movement is necessary.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  Considering that I’ve only heard these stories in the UK I’m guessing the GP is in the UK as well. And I agree the media and the public are mocking the police that does this and are quite outraged. Social distancing is to stop large gatherings not to put people in isolation. I have no problems with using technology to do contact tracing as long as there are sufficient controls around it, it’s extremely difficult to do contact tracing without it especially since people not only forget but outright lie.
  - iso1210 7y ago
    The UK government has proved it can't be trusted with that technology, neither can google. I'm disappointed that apple have bought into this panic. And yes, in the UK the local busybodies are complaining about people walking down the road in fancy dress, and families out together for a walk
    - xorfish 7y ago
      Have you taken a closer look at the technology? https://github.com/DP-3T/documents https://github.com/DP-3T/documents The nice thing about this technology is, that it will stop working as soon as there are no more cases.
      - TechBro8615 7y ago
        While it's very encouraging that the (current) technology is being developed by such a capable group, there are plenty of tangential worries to be had, especially if this is viewed as a "foot in the door." Who's to say such an emphasis will be placed on privacy going forward? Ultimately, this is the government and large corporations conditioning people to being tracked on an ongoing basis and blindly self-isolating themselves because they got a notification on their phone. It may be opt-in and privacy-preserving now, but my experience with governments suggests that's unlikely to remain the case for long.
  - op00to 7y ago
    You’re so wrong. Virus can still spread in small groups. The only way to gain control is isolating living groups. Sorry you don’t like it.
- finnthehuman 7y ago
  >> The problem is that the public are fully on the side of the Stassi -- clammouring for police to arrest people in their front gardens, confiscating inappropriate food etc. >in my locality (South-West UK) your description doesn't appear to fit. oi mate, you got a loicense for that opinion?
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Yes! There's an implicit "for me" somewhere in that sentence. Do you find it contrary?
    - finnthehuman 7y ago
      No, I just find it funny to see someone from the UK to react to a post about the threat to creeping authoritarianism with "not happening here." Also, on a slightly related note: After this pandemic quarantine lifts I have work travel to Newcastle. How do I go about getting a masturbation loicense? Everything I know about your system of local government I've learned from TV; so I know nothing about your system of local government. Do I have to go directly to the ISP? Will my Verizon SIM card work like it does in Saudi Arabia and give me real internet even though the local company who's towers I'm roaming on has filtered internet?

IAmEveryone 7y ago

This whole scheme is vastly more complex than strictly needed just to make it anonymous. It takes a bit of motivated reasoning to see this as evidence of bad faith. Also: this is part of the “missing” exit strategy for social distancing. It doesn’t even make sense in a world in lockdown, because there wouldn’t be any contact data to trace. I wish people would remember that “slippery slope” is a fallacy as easily as they do with those that support their believes.

dogma1138 7y ago
There is no full lockdown nearly anywhere you can still go to shops, exercise and go to work if you are a key worker or you do not work in a public facing business. People over estimate the extent of the lockdown in many countries.
- op00to 7y ago
  Just because you can does not mean you should.

dirtyid 7y ago

This "going away" is more likely in some places than others depending on legislation and entrenched interests. That said, it's probably going to stick around in the US, if anything pandemic watch is going to be the next TSA where unfathomable resources will be diverted. The only rival to US security lobby is the US medical lobby. Though it'll probably be more useful than security theater in the long run.

KKKKkkkk1 7y ago
The only rival to US security lobby is the US medical lobby. Though it'll probably be more useful than security theater in the long run. Given how big pharma's previous big win gave us the opioid crisis, I wouldn't count on it.

KKKKkkkk1 7y ago

Let's put aside the question whether the pandemic will end in June or September or whenever. Take the example of the National Raisin Reserve. Established 1949, abolished 2015. These things, once they're in force, are quite hard to roll back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Raisin_Reserve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Raisin_Reserve

maxerickson 7y ago

Phone locations are already heavily tracked. It's naive to think otherwise. As @Pinboard is repeatedly pointing out, the choice isn't between being tracked and not being tracked, it's between using data that is already collected to fight the virus and not using the data to fight the virus. (this scheme is different than what phone operators collect, but phone operators are out there collecting)