5 ms·

I asked a few friends about the New Jersey call. They (2 of them, both retired and over 70) claimed there's no work to be done and it's actually an incompetentl

I asked a few friends about the New Jersey call. They (2 of them, both retired and over 70) claimed there's no work to be done and it's actually an incompetently administered administration with human problems who are scapegoating the technology. Also supposedly the New Jersey govt sacked their team and then was trying to contract out the work at $50/hr. Now they are offering $0/hr. And the solution isn't in software, or so they claimed. This assessment was after both signed up to volunteer to do the work and saw it was a human process failing and not a software issue. People tend to point to the parts most mysterious to them when things start to fail - a zSeries frame is in actual reality, a very important big black mystery box that officials with access to microphones are not allowed to touch - perfect. Don't let this discourage you though, their problems are still very real.

zamadatix 7y ago
"Human problems" is even more vague than "software issues". Any details as to what in the process is actually the bottleneck or failing?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisfinazzo 7y ago
  No piece of software survives contact with humans.
DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
> Don't let this discourage you though, their problems are still very real. Is that statement directed a programmers who want to help NJ? Because you made a pretty good argument earlier in your post that this isn't a software development problem.
- kristopolous 7y ago
  The opinions of two people hardly can be considered as constituting any true reality. I'd love for them to be wrong, that'd be great.
- Aloha 7y ago
  Places other than NJ have problems.
jdhn 7y ago
>it's actually an incompetently administered administration with human problems Yeah, sounds like New Jersey. I'm surprised that they sacked the team, it would be a very NJ thing to keep them on and just handwave the costs away.
JPKab 7y ago
How many folks on HN have witnessed this same very thing within large mega-corps and government agencies? I've seen it a LOT. The big bummer is that the crisis almost requires enabling behavior here, in the sense that if there are things wrong with said COBOL system, it's the fault of the NJ gov't for not fixing it a long time ago. People should rescue this for the sake of the unemployed, but can we please fire people for this? This isn't a red state: They collect plenty of revenue. So IF IT IS COBOL SYSTEM, and not just bureaucrats, it's still NJ's fault. As Bezos said recently regarding the Seattle city gov't: They don't have a revenue problem. They have a spending efficiency problem.
- phendrenad2 7y ago
  Yeah, I feel like as much as we programmers like to make believe that we can re-architect our programs and it'll solve all of the problems, often times the problems are up the chain with the design of the product.
- m463 7y ago
  I was surprised to find it's not california or new york that have the highest taxes, New Jersey has the highest taxes in the nation.
  - slfnflctd 7y ago
    I was reading more in depth about this NJ tax situation recently. Apparently a lot of it has to do with how they divided up counties into tiny municipalities, and each one gets its own public services such as firefighters/EMTs, police, etc.-- which of course all have solid pension plans. If they consolidated and streamlined, it would be much more efficient, but there are numerous barriers to this (not least of which how eliminating a bunch of those jobs would go over with the public). They're likely going to have to do something eventually, they just haven't figured out how yet.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  > This isn't a red state: They collect plenty of revenue. They spend even more. NJ is in the worst spot out of all the states: https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-state-of-the-states-2019 https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-stat...
12yrprogrammer 7y ago
But don't worry, government healthcare will be fine /s
- burnte 7y ago
  It literally can't be worse than private insurance.
  - 12yrprogrammer 7y ago
    Deregulate healthcare pls. The cartels are straight evil.
    - hwillis 7y ago
      yeah sure I'd loooove to have preexisting conditions back
  - dexterdog 7y ago
    Where is there a system based on private insurance?
    - burnte 7y ago
      The US. Who doesn't know this?
- srajabi 7y ago
  Well it is in most of the world. Compare the US to Canada, similar patient outcomes at double the cost.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jmchuster 7y ago
As standard, most problems end up being ultimately human, not technical.
raincom 7y ago
Interesting. Recently I've been getting emails for $55/hr work with "security clearance". I see how this kind of contracting operates; many body shops have become "minority owned" corporations. Minority = either women or color.
- koolba 7y ago
  It’s a scamola. They’re required to have X% of contracts fall into that minority / women-owned category so there’s a series of shell companies that offer a conduit service to subcontract the work.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  The prime contractors are required to give out a certain amount of work to women/minority owned companies. There is a big number of these companies around DC. It’s one of the best ways to get into government contracting.
- LarryMade2 7y ago
  The full requirements (security clearance, bonding, etc.) will probably make that $55 hr a bigger joke.
- icedchai 7y ago
  Everyone needs their cut. The original contracting company's probably charging $100+ an hour. They sub it out to another company for $75/hr. Eventually it gets to someone who actually does the work for $55/hr or less. They think they're getting a good deal, meanwhile everyone's getting screwed, from the employee to the government agency, due to all these middlemen.
  - droithomme 7y ago
    > Eventually it gets to someone who actually does the work for $55/hr or less. In my observation, after 5-10 layers of indirection, it eventually ends up overseas with a young foreign national who makes $3 an hour and absolutely does not have the required security clearance.
  - 7y ago
dang 7y ago
Jerry Weinberg, in his classic Secrets of Consulting: No matter what it looks like, it's always a people problem.

zamadatix 7y ago

"Human problems" is even more vague than "software issues". Any details as to what in the process is actually the bottleneck or failing?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
chrisfinazzo 7y ago
No piece of software survives contact with humans.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago

> Don't let this discourage you though, their problems are still very real. Is that statement directed a programmers who want to help NJ? Because you made a pretty good argument earlier in your post that this isn't a software development problem.

kristopolous 7y ago
The opinions of two people hardly can be considered as constituting any true reality. I'd love for them to be wrong, that'd be great.
Aloha 7y ago
Places other than NJ have problems.

jdhn 7y ago

>it's actually an incompetently administered administration with human problems Yeah, sounds like New Jersey. I'm surprised that they sacked the team, it would be a very NJ thing to keep them on and just handwave the costs away.

JPKab 7y ago

How many folks on HN have witnessed this same very thing within large mega-corps and government agencies? I've seen it a LOT. The big bummer is that the crisis almost requires enabling behavior here, in the sense that if there are things wrong with said COBOL system, it's the fault of the NJ gov't for not fixing it a long time ago. People should rescue this for the sake of the unemployed, but can we please fire people for this? This isn't a red state: They collect plenty of revenue. So IF IT IS COBOL SYSTEM, and not just bureaucrats, it's still NJ's fault. As Bezos said recently regarding the Seattle city gov't: They don't have a revenue problem. They have a spending efficiency problem.

phendrenad2 7y ago
Yeah, I feel like as much as we programmers like to make believe that we can re-architect our programs and it'll solve all of the problems, often times the problems are up the chain with the design of the product.
m463 7y ago
I was surprised to find it's not california or new york that have the highest taxes, New Jersey has the highest taxes in the nation.
- slfnflctd 7y ago
  I was reading more in depth about this NJ tax situation recently. Apparently a lot of it has to do with how they divided up counties into tiny municipalities, and each one gets its own public services such as firefighters/EMTs, police, etc.-- which of course all have solid pension plans. If they consolidated and streamlined, it would be much more efficient, but there are numerous barriers to this (not least of which how eliminating a bunch of those jobs would go over with the public). They're likely going to have to do something eventually, they just haven't figured out how yet.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
> This isn't a red state: They collect plenty of revenue. They spend even more. NJ is in the worst spot out of all the states: https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-state-of-the-states-2019 https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-stat...

12yrprogrammer 7y ago

But don't worry, government healthcare will be fine /s

burnte 7y ago
It literally can't be worse than private insurance.
- 12yrprogrammer 7y ago
  Deregulate healthcare pls. The cartels are straight evil.
  - hwillis 7y ago
    yeah sure I'd loooove to have preexisting conditions back
- dexterdog 7y ago
  Where is there a system based on private insurance?
  - burnte 7y ago
    The US. Who doesn't know this?
srajabi 7y ago
Well it is in most of the world. Compare the US to Canada, similar patient outcomes at double the cost.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jmchuster 7y ago

As standard, most problems end up being ultimately human, not technical.

raincom 7y ago

Interesting. Recently I've been getting emails for $55/hr work with "security clearance". I see how this kind of contracting operates; many body shops have become "minority owned" corporations. Minority = either women or color.

koolba 7y ago
It’s a scamola. They’re required to have X% of contracts fall into that minority / women-owned category so there’s a series of shell companies that offer a conduit service to subcontract the work.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
The prime contractors are required to give out a certain amount of work to women/minority owned companies. There is a big number of these companies around DC. It’s one of the best ways to get into government contracting.
LarryMade2 7y ago
The full requirements (security clearance, bonding, etc.) will probably make that $55 hr a bigger joke.
icedchai 7y ago
Everyone needs their cut. The original contracting company's probably charging $100+ an hour. They sub it out to another company for $75/hr. Eventually it gets to someone who actually does the work for $55/hr or less. They think they're getting a good deal, meanwhile everyone's getting screwed, from the employee to the government agency, due to all these middlemen.
- droithomme 7y ago
  > Eventually it gets to someone who actually does the work for $55/hr or less. In my observation, after 5-10 layers of indirection, it eventually ends up overseas with a young foreign national who makes $3 an hour and absolutely does not have the required security clearance.
- 7y ago

dang 7y ago

Jerry Weinberg, in his classic Secrets of Consulting: No matter what it looks like, it's always a people problem.