5 ms·

Slightly related: I wasn't aware of this until last year, but at one point nuclear-powered jet aircraft were a thing. Think cold-war jets, always ready to coun

Slightly related: I wasn't aware of this until last year, but at one point nuclear-powered jet aircraft were a thing. Think cold-war jets, always ready to counter if the other side strikes, that could stay aloft for a month or more. The issue is that weight is the enemy of flight, and nuclear shielding is heavy. The US was working on distributed shielding: instead of being centralized around the reactor, messing with the CG, it was spread out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft

dgudkov 7y ago
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft Tupolev Tu-119 ... had two conventional turboprop engines and two direct-cycle nuclear jet engines, and got around the shielding weight issue by simply not including it. This made my day.
- jsperson 7y ago
  Ruined some people's day though - next paragraph: "We had all been irradiated, but we ignored it. Of the two crews, only three men survived- a young navigator, a military navigator and me. The first to go, a young technician, took only three years to die".
  - 08-15 7y ago
    Funny how someone who is not a radiologist can blurt out nonsense and nobody questions it. If you follow the link to the main article: "...radiation shielding, which was one of the main concerns for the engineers. Liquid sodium, beryllium oxide, cadmium, paraffin wax and steel plates were used for protection." Clearly, the Soviets weren't suicidal. They were obviously looking for lightweight ways to shield the neutron radiation, which is very damaging to both humans and electronics. The gamma radiation would still reach the crew, but attenuated by the distance. Gamma isn't too bad, because little of it is absorbed. > a young technician, took only three years to die Well, that wasn't radiation poisoning (it kills within days or not at all), and it wasn't cancer (that takes longer to develop). What was it? Ethanol poisoning?
garmaine 7y ago
Also, how do you keep the crew alive for months without allowing for all the weight of those supplies?
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Theoretically you could replace the crew/restock in midair
  - willismichael 7y ago
    Wow, that's dark. No need for shielding if you can just replace the crew as they die from radiation poisoning every few days?
    - garmaine 7y ago
      He means rotate the crew.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      I think he means swap people out (because working for 48hr+ straight tends to lower job performance) and restock supplies like food/water
      - lokedhs 7y ago
        Just because you can stay airborne indefinitely doesn't mean that you're not going to ever land.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  I'm wondering how you'd do laundry.
  - clort 7y ago
    no need to wear clothing if you are warm and dry
- 7y ago
cblades 7y ago
The DOE land on which ORNL sits has a massive stand that they used for testing of this idea. They'd suspend a reactor to test shielding effectiveness. You can see it from a few spots on I-40/I-75 and on Highway 95 going by the lab's west entrance.
- acidburnNSA 7y ago
  It was called the Tower Shielding Facility. Pretty glorious. Small writeup here: https://www.ornl.gov/blog/ornl-reporter/lofty-ambitions https://www.ornl.gov/blog/ornl-reporter/lofty-ambitions
fenwick67 7y ago
I wonder what the feasability would be like for an unmanned version nowadays - no need for shielding during flight (although you're basically flying a dirty bomb around).
- Elv13 7y ago
  The Russians claim to have made such a system. They also claim nuclear powered torpedoes. It is not 100% clear how far they really are. However, there was detectable accidents, so they are at least really trying. It ain't all bluff.
acidburnNSA 7y ago
Ah, my favorite topic. There was a $1B (1950s dollars) program in the 1950s to make these. It led to vast nuclear development. Some good reading and pictures on it are in this huge report [1]. I particularly like this image: https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg Another fun fact, if you've heard of molten salt reactors (MSR) or the associated thorium fuel cycle, you should know that almost all of the tech development related to those projects came from the program to develop nuclear-powered aircraft. The first MSR was called the Aircraft Reactor Experiment (ARE) [2]. The second one, the famed MSRE, was built in the building that had been entirely funded and built for the air force project, using mostly parts and certainly the expertise built by it. [1] https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1048124-comprehensive-technical-report-general-electric-direct-air-cycle-aircraft-nuclear-propulsion-program-program-summary-references https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1048124-comprehensive-technical-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Reactor_Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Reactor_Experiment
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- willismichael 7y ago
  > https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg That looks like some sort of bio-mechanical abomination descended from Cthulhu.
  - time0ut 7y ago
    Funny you should mention it. A similar hypothetical weapons system is deployed against Cthulhu in the excellent short story A Colder War by Charles Stross. See http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
- stickfigure 7y ago
  You can visit the two test reactors/engines, sitting in a parking lot in Arco, ID. Here's some pics I took about a decade ago: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763287997/in/album-72157621750944722/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763287997/in/album-7... https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763298693/in/album-72157621750944722/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763298693/in/album-7... The lead-lined railroad locomotive was pretty cool too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763363831/in/album-72157621750944722/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763363831/in/album-7... (there's a few more if you click through to the album)
dehrmann 7y ago
If I were Airbus or Boeing, I'd have a group working on something like this as a solution to CO2 emissions from commercial aircraft.
zipwitch 7y ago
Years ago, I read decent alternate-history piece of fiction, set in a world where nuclear-powered bombers were put in service by the United States Air Force:Steambird https://www.fantasticfiction.com/s/hilbert-schenck/steam-bird.htm https://www.fantasticfiction.com/s/hilbert-schenck/steam-bir...

dgudkov 7y ago

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft Tupolev Tu-119 ... had two conventional turboprop engines and two direct-cycle nuclear jet engines, and got around the shielding weight issue by simply not including it. This made my day.

jsperson 7y ago
Ruined some people's day though - next paragraph: "We had all been irradiated, but we ignored it. Of the two crews, only three men survived- a young navigator, a military navigator and me. The first to go, a young technician, took only three years to die".
- 08-15 7y ago
  Funny how someone who is not a radiologist can blurt out nonsense and nobody questions it. If you follow the link to the main article: "...radiation shielding, which was one of the main concerns for the engineers. Liquid sodium, beryllium oxide, cadmium, paraffin wax and steel plates were used for protection." Clearly, the Soviets weren't suicidal. They were obviously looking for lightweight ways to shield the neutron radiation, which is very damaging to both humans and electronics. The gamma radiation would still reach the crew, but attenuated by the distance. Gamma isn't too bad, because little of it is absorbed. > a young technician, took only three years to die Well, that wasn't radiation poisoning (it kills within days or not at all), and it wasn't cancer (that takes longer to develop). What was it? Ethanol poisoning?

garmaine 7y ago

Also, how do you keep the crew alive for months without allowing for all the weight of those supplies?

akhilcacharya 7y ago
Theoretically you could replace the crew/restock in midair
- willismichael 7y ago
  Wow, that's dark. No need for shielding if you can just replace the crew as they die from radiation poisoning every few days?
  - garmaine 7y ago
    He means rotate the crew.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I think he means swap people out (because working for 48hr+ straight tends to lower job performance) and restock supplies like food/water
    - lokedhs 7y ago
      Just because you can stay airborne indefinitely doesn't mean that you're not going to ever land.
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
I'm wondering how you'd do laundry.
- clort 7y ago
  no need to wear clothing if you are warm and dry
7y ago

cblades 7y ago

The DOE land on which ORNL sits has a massive stand that they used for testing of this idea. They'd suspend a reactor to test shielding effectiveness. You can see it from a few spots on I-40/I-75 and on Highway 95 going by the lab's west entrance.

acidburnNSA 7y ago
It was called the Tower Shielding Facility. Pretty glorious. Small writeup here: https://www.ornl.gov/blog/ornl-reporter/lofty-ambitions https://www.ornl.gov/blog/ornl-reporter/lofty-ambitions

fenwick67 7y ago

I wonder what the feasability would be like for an unmanned version nowadays - no need for shielding during flight (although you're basically flying a dirty bomb around).

Elv13 7y ago
The Russians claim to have made such a system. They also claim nuclear powered torpedoes. It is not 100% clear how far they really are. However, there was detectable accidents, so they are at least really trying. It ain't all bluff.

acidburnNSA 7y ago

Ah, my favorite topic. There was a $1B (1950s dollars) program in the 1950s to make these. It led to vast nuclear development. Some good reading and pictures on it are in this huge report [1]. I particularly like this image: https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg Another fun fact, if you've heard of molten salt reactors (MSR) or the associated thorium fuel cycle, you should know that almost all of the tech development related to those projects came from the program to develop nuclear-powered aircraft. The first MSR was called the Aircraft Reactor Experiment (ARE) [2]. The second one, the famed MSRE, was built in the building that had been entirely funded and built for the air force project, using mostly parts and certainly the expertise built by it. [1] https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1048124-comprehensive-technical-report-general-electric-direct-air-cycle-aircraft-nuclear-propulsion-program-program-summary-references https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1048124-comprehensive-technical-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Reactor_Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Reactor_Experiment

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
willismichael 7y ago
> https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg https://whatisnuclear.com/img/nuclear_rocket.jpg That looks like some sort of bio-mechanical abomination descended from Cthulhu.
- time0ut 7y ago
  Funny you should mention it. A similar hypothetical weapons system is deployed against Cthulhu in the excellent short story A Colder War by Charles Stross. See http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
stickfigure 7y ago
You can visit the two test reactors/engines, sitting in a parking lot in Arco, ID. Here's some pics I took about a decade ago: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763287997/in/album-72157621750944722/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763287997/in/album-7... https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763298693/in/album-72157621750944722/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763298693/in/album-7... The lead-lined railroad locomotive was pretty cool too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763363831/in/album-72157621750944722/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhoriman/3763363831/in/album-7... (there's a few more if you click through to the album)

dehrmann 7y ago

If I were Airbus or Boeing, I'd have a group working on something like this as a solution to CO2 emissions from commercial aircraft.

zipwitch 7y ago

Years ago, I read decent alternate-history piece of fiction, set in a world where nuclear-powered bombers were put in service by the United States Air Force:Steambird https://www.fantasticfiction.com/s/hilbert-schenck/steam-bird.htm https://www.fantasticfiction.com/s/hilbert-schenck/steam-bir...