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Giving every American a token cash handout is something Republicans have done before, it's hardly unbelievable if you actually have historical context. And by f

by ztjio 7y ago

Giving every American a token cash handout is something Republicans have done before, it's hardly unbelievable if you actually have historical context. And by far most of that bill is corporate handouts. And the oversight has been fired. Everything about this aligns exactly with what you'd expect politically. It's a debacle. Furthermore, while there has been a lot of shutdown, it's not equal across the board. Tons of places are taking half measures or no measures still, and the reasoning is entirely politically biased (business more important than people, etc.) It's clearly a case of more right leaning areas taking less cautious measures in favor of money. In fact, I'd argue that everything that has happened, especially all the horribly obvious "mistakes" (read: intentional, corruption riddle, failures in the case of the federal administration) aligns with political viability as expected and confirms in retrospect the claims about viability.

austingulati 7y ago
I have seen a few click-bait headlines stating that the "oversight was fired" but it is not exactly true. There is some politics going on about who is chair of the PRAC but the other ~20 members of the committee have not changed.
- ztjio 7y ago
  The procession of a dictator is more nuanced and complex than people realize. A totally typical tactic is to repeatedly fire anyone who will take up the role in a fashion that does not directly benefit said dictator. That anyone was fired from this duty without a clear explanation and justification is cause for alarm. It doesn't matter if there are 20 or 2000 more ready to step into that position. Dictator will keep firing until he sees a loyal drone in the slot.
  - a_tractor 7y ago
    Replace the word "dictator" with "leader" in your statement, and your sophistry becomes obvious. You are just describing common traits of executive leadership, conflating them with a shallow and dumbed down version of "dictator" to try to make it fit. >that does not directly contribute towards said leader's goals and the goals of his electorate Well yeah, in most of these cases you are talking about unelected bureaucrats caught trying to undermine and subvert the elected President's agenda and constitutional authority. Are you trying to say a President should not have people helping him, and that he should permit employees who have been secretly and actively working against his agenda and undermining his authority? Seriously? >repeatedly fire How do you "repeatedly fire" someone? >That anyone was fired from this duty without a clear explanation and justification is cause for alarm Good thing nothing like that has happened, no matter what the fired individuals or their "resistance supporters" might like everybody to think. Falling for this line depends purely on ignorance and buying into the opposition's propaganda without question. What part of Commander and Chief of the United States do you not understand? Was Obama a "dictator" when he blanket fired all of Bush's political appointees without explanation? Or was it, rather, the routine action of an incoming President attempting to set up his incoming agenda for success? >until he sees a loyal drone in the slot As opposed to a disloyal drone? Come on... This is just sad at this point. >The procession of a dictator is more nuanced and complex than people realize. Not really, though it really is fun to see Progressives leak their inner motivations through projection.
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
You're not wrong, but the first part is largely what I'm talking about. When people say something is "light-years beyond the kind of political leadership and public-private coordination we’ve seen thus far", I don't think they're doing a principled analysis of what political leadership or coordination has been able to accomplish in the past.
LyndsySimon 7y ago
> It's clearly a case of more right leaning areas taking less cautious measures in favor of money. While I see where you’re coming from with this statement, I’m not sure I agree. From where I stand - a town of 13k people surrounded by a large rural area - it makes sense that we’re taking less aggressive action because the virus is not yet endemic here. Given the growth of confirmed cases in my area (northern Arkansas), it seems those steps are working adequately to keep it from becoming endemic as well. I propose that areas with lower population density are taking less aggressive action, and those areas are also predominately right-leaning.
- ztjio 7y ago
  Literally everyone in this scenario thinks this way at first because they can't comprehend exponential growth. Nobody can, there are actual studies that show nobody can understand it so it's not a slight. The only way you can convince me based on evidence elsewhere that your scenario is going to be any better than anywhere else is if your leadership in your area is doing aggressive testing, contact tracing and targeted isolation protocols akin to South Korea.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    I'm not sure why it's a question of "going to be". The scenario in most states is better than New York, and has been for a while, even though many of them confirmed their first case earlier.
  - burfog 7y ago
    Consider the R0 value that you're trying to reduce by social distancing. New York City starts with a high value. People encounter each other in apartment hallways, packed subways, crowded streets, and huge stadiums. Rural places don't have any of that. People don't pass by any non-family when going from home to car. Non-family don't share that car. The streets are nearly empty of people, with just the occasional person out walking a dog. There might not be exponential growth. If R0 is below 1, there is exponential decay.
  - LyndsySimon 7y ago

by ztjio 7y ago

austingulati 7y ago

I have seen a few click-bait headlines stating that the "oversight was fired" but it is not exactly true. There is some politics going on about who is chair of the PRAC but the other ~20 members of the committee have not changed.

ztjio 7y ago
The procession of a dictator is more nuanced and complex than people realize. A totally typical tactic is to repeatedly fire anyone who will take up the role in a fashion that does not directly benefit said dictator. That anyone was fired from this duty without a clear explanation and justification is cause for alarm. It doesn't matter if there are 20 or 2000 more ready to step into that position. Dictator will keep firing until he sees a loyal drone in the slot.
- a_tractor 7y ago
  Replace the word "dictator" with "leader" in your statement, and your sophistry becomes obvious. You are just describing common traits of executive leadership, conflating them with a shallow and dumbed down version of "dictator" to try to make it fit. >that does not directly contribute towards said leader's goals and the goals of his electorate Well yeah, in most of these cases you are talking about unelected bureaucrats caught trying to undermine and subvert the elected President's agenda and constitutional authority. Are you trying to say a President should not have people helping him, and that he should permit employees who have been secretly and actively working against his agenda and undermining his authority? Seriously? >repeatedly fire How do you "repeatedly fire" someone? >That anyone was fired from this duty without a clear explanation and justification is cause for alarm Good thing nothing like that has happened, no matter what the fired individuals or their "resistance supporters" might like everybody to think. Falling for this line depends purely on ignorance and buying into the opposition's propaganda without question. What part of Commander and Chief of the United States do you not understand? Was Obama a "dictator" when he blanket fired all of Bush's political appointees without explanation? Or was it, rather, the routine action of an incoming President attempting to set up his incoming agenda for success? >until he sees a loyal drone in the slot As opposed to a disloyal drone? Come on... This is just sad at this point. >The procession of a dictator is more nuanced and complex than people realize. Not really, though it really is fun to see Progressives leak their inner motivations through projection.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

You're not wrong, but the first part is largely what I'm talking about. When people say something is "light-years beyond the kind of political leadership and public-private coordination we’ve seen thus far", I don't think they're doing a principled analysis of what political leadership or coordination has been able to accomplish in the past.

LyndsySimon 7y ago

> It's clearly a case of more right leaning areas taking less cautious measures in favor of money. While I see where you’re coming from with this statement, I’m not sure I agree. From where I stand - a town of 13k people surrounded by a large rural area - it makes sense that we’re taking less aggressive action because the virus is not yet endemic here. Given the growth of confirmed cases in my area (northern Arkansas), it seems those steps are working adequately to keep it from becoming endemic as well. I propose that areas with lower population density are taking less aggressive action, and those areas are also predominately right-leaning.

ztjio 7y ago
Literally everyone in this scenario thinks this way at first because they can't comprehend exponential growth. Nobody can, there are actual studies that show nobody can understand it so it's not a slight. The only way you can convince me based on evidence elsewhere that your scenario is going to be any better than anywhere else is if your leadership in your area is doing aggressive testing, contact tracing and targeted isolation protocols akin to South Korea.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  I'm not sure why it's a question of "going to be". The scenario in most states is better than New York, and has been for a while, even though many of them confirmed their first case earlier.
- burfog 7y ago
  Consider the R0 value that you're trying to reduce by social distancing. New York City starts with a high value. People encounter each other in apartment hallways, packed subways, crowded streets, and huge stadiums. Rural places don't have any of that. People don't pass by any non-family when going from home to car. Non-family don't share that car. The streets are nearly empty of people, with just the occasional person out walking a dog. There might not be exponential growth. If R0 is below 1, there is exponential decay.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago