4 ms·

Attenborough https://youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o The relentless zombies are us. We're physically adapted: sweat por

Attenborough https://youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o The relentless zombies are us. We're physically adapted: sweat pores, bipedal, achilles tendon. Perhaps neccessary, but high calorie ROI seems insufficient for the evolution of intelligence.

ganzuul 7y ago
It annoys me to no end when fiction portrays humans as a weak, defenseless species without our tools. We're nothing of the sort. We can climb on negative inclines, run an ultra-marathon, lift several times our own weight, deep-dive, heal massive wounds, our immune system is without par, and we perform all kinds of feats of dexterity. It is simply modern humans who have no need for the adaption our ancestors have gifted us with.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  >our immune system is without par // Is it just lack of use that means we get sick from tainted meat, and such, when other mammals seem to stay healthy?
  - ganzuul 7y ago
    I'm not sure about that one. As a species we need to stay in groups and take care of our sick. We traveled vast distances by foot and sought out our own kind. To equivocate, I did hear about ancient ruins of villages in China where unknown strains of plague were unearthed, before this COVID-19 stuff. I assume these then became cursed villages that no one visited.
  - quaquaqua1 7y ago
    Are the same pieces of meat involved? Lots of grocery store meat that you buy "fresh" was killed x number of days ago. If a dog eats raw meat within a few hours of it being killed, it's a big difference. How did I come to this opinion? Try freezing a super market steak a few days before the "expiration date." Then unfreeze it a few days after the expiration date. You'll notice a rancid smell immediately upon cooking.
    - war1025 7y ago
      > Lots of grocery store meat that you buy "fresh" was killed x number of days ago. Most beef, at least that you buy locally from a butcher who got the animal from a local farmer, is dry aged in a cooler for 10 - 14 days after slaughter. [1] I don't know whether that's true for mass-market meat or not. But it's very common to let meat age before eating it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_aging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_aging
  - caymanjim 7y ago
    If you visit a developing country, you'll still see people bathing and washing clothes and cookware in rivers. You'll also see outhouses on stilts along the same river. While there's a high incidence of illness among people who live like this, many people clearly tolerate it well. If I were to do that now, I'd get sick, but eventually I'd probably be able to tolerate it as well (assuming I survived). It's a common misconception that animals don't get sick from tainted meat or water. They do, and when they're weakened enough, they get eaten. Clearly some have a higher tolerance of certain pathogens (e.g. vultures), but many succumb to intestinal bacteria and parasites at alarming rates. We just don't see it.
  - d883kd8 7y ago
    First, you or I probably could eat raw meat from a freshly killed wild herbivore with very little risk, compared to raw meat from a modern cow, raised in crowded conditions, handled by dozens of other humans, and pushed through various surfaces. Also, there's a theory that fire and cooking is part of what allowed hominids to develop their superior brains and leave the trees behind for a fully savannah-based lifestyle.
    - hyperpallium 7y ago
      BTW Steak tartare is a dish of raw meat: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare There's also sushi and sashimi.
- Accujack 7y ago
  > It is simply modern humans who have no need for the adaption our ancestors have gifted us with. I agreed up until this. Of course, I disagreed with my evolutionary biology profs in college, too, on this subject. These adaptations and others are still operating and still changing. They're not a point in time change to us, they're a bell curve of adaptation over time. We're adapting in some measure right now to things like modern technology, although technology may continue to be a moving target long enough that we'll never finish adapting before it changes again. Modern humans are just animals in a rectilinear jungle, still evolving, adapting, and changing.
  - ganzuul 7y ago
    Excuse me, I should have said "many contemporary humans", not "modern". There is a vast difference in time scale between the two and I did think of people who don't get enough exercise, work in an office, and watch TV the rest of the day.
- throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  Well, let's see... > We can climb on negative inclines, Can you? > run an ultra-marathon, Have you ever? > lift several times our own weight, Can you? > deep-dive, Have you ever? > heal massive wounds, Unless we die from them, yup. > our immune system is without par, Meaningless claim. > and we perform all kinds of feats of dexterity And birds can can't, but they can fly. Elephant's can't but they've got long noses. etc. So? Human exceptionalism (from a human, I assume)
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    Add in the fact that humans can work together and then not all those roles need filling by each individual.
- ijidak 7y ago
  Interesting. What do you mean that our immune system is without par? Do we have a better immune system than other primates and other animal groups?
  - ganzuul 6y ago
    So I have gathered but I don't have sources saying the same. Animal models (read: tests on other mammals) for studying our immune system are rather inaccurate, and auto-immune diseases are very dangerous to humans. Perhaps other social predators actually are on the same level as us.
AnotherGoodName 7y ago
I believe persistent hunting also encourages very high intelligence for the tracking aspect as well. You're essentially emulating another creatures brain in order to figure out their likely movements whenever they go out of sight.
- SuoDuanDao 7y ago
  That's a great point. I once saw one of those "HFY" threads where someone was speculating that if we became a warrior species in a multiplanetary federation, we'd be feared not just for our tenacity but also our ability to play mind games. Basically, "Never play poker against a human".
- hyperpallium 7y ago
  Not sure how important this is, often not needed if there are tracks etc. It would help, but wouldn't a better sense of smell help more?
  - AnotherGoodName 7y ago
    If you watch the attenborough documentary linked above it has some clear examples. "The hunters have no tracks at this point and so must imagine the path the Kudu has taken". And later, "The tracks have disappeared again. He imagines being in the mind of the Kudu to deduce the direction it must have fled". There's also the case that tracks alone need a lot of intelligence to process. "Here they can see the Kudu were running by the spacing of the tracks and the bull is isolated and taking a different track". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
    - hyperpallium 6y ago
      I posted that link. My comment was about relative importance.
ed_balls 7y ago
That saliva bit... I just thought about another virus outbreak. Another persistence hunter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNbqvqf3-14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNbqvqf3-14

ganzuul 7y ago

It annoys me to no end when fiction portrays humans as a weak, defenseless species without our tools. We're nothing of the sort. We can climb on negative inclines, run an ultra-marathon, lift several times our own weight, deep-dive, heal massive wounds, our immune system is without par, and we perform all kinds of feats of dexterity. It is simply modern humans who have no need for the adaption our ancestors have gifted us with.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
>our immune system is without par // Is it just lack of use that means we get sick from tainted meat, and such, when other mammals seem to stay healthy?
- ganzuul 7y ago
  I'm not sure about that one. As a species we need to stay in groups and take care of our sick. We traveled vast distances by foot and sought out our own kind. To equivocate, I did hear about ancient ruins of villages in China where unknown strains of plague were unearthed, before this COVID-19 stuff. I assume these then became cursed villages that no one visited.
- quaquaqua1 7y ago
  Are the same pieces of meat involved? Lots of grocery store meat that you buy "fresh" was killed x number of days ago. If a dog eats raw meat within a few hours of it being killed, it's a big difference. How did I come to this opinion? Try freezing a super market steak a few days before the "expiration date." Then unfreeze it a few days after the expiration date. You'll notice a rancid smell immediately upon cooking.
  - war1025 7y ago
    > Lots of grocery store meat that you buy "fresh" was killed x number of days ago. Most beef, at least that you buy locally from a butcher who got the animal from a local farmer, is dry aged in a cooler for 10 - 14 days after slaughter. [1] I don't know whether that's true for mass-market meat or not. But it's very common to let meat age before eating it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_aging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_aging
- caymanjim 7y ago
  If you visit a developing country, you'll still see people bathing and washing clothes and cookware in rivers. You'll also see outhouses on stilts along the same river. While there's a high incidence of illness among people who live like this, many people clearly tolerate it well. If I were to do that now, I'd get sick, but eventually I'd probably be able to tolerate it as well (assuming I survived). It's a common misconception that animals don't get sick from tainted meat or water. They do, and when they're weakened enough, they get eaten. Clearly some have a higher tolerance of certain pathogens (e.g. vultures), but many succumb to intestinal bacteria and parasites at alarming rates. We just don't see it.
- d883kd8 7y ago
  First, you or I probably could eat raw meat from a freshly killed wild herbivore with very little risk, compared to raw meat from a modern cow, raised in crowded conditions, handled by dozens of other humans, and pushed through various surfaces. Also, there's a theory that fire and cooking is part of what allowed hominids to develop their superior brains and leave the trees behind for a fully savannah-based lifestyle.
  - hyperpallium 7y ago
    BTW Steak tartare is a dish of raw meat: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare There's also sushi and sashimi.
Accujack 7y ago
> It is simply modern humans who have no need for the adaption our ancestors have gifted us with. I agreed up until this. Of course, I disagreed with my evolutionary biology profs in college, too, on this subject. These adaptations and others are still operating and still changing. They're not a point in time change to us, they're a bell curve of adaptation over time. We're adapting in some measure right now to things like modern technology, although technology may continue to be a moving target long enough that we'll never finish adapting before it changes again. Modern humans are just animals in a rectilinear jungle, still evolving, adapting, and changing.
- ganzuul 7y ago
  Excuse me, I should have said "many contemporary humans", not "modern". There is a vast difference in time scale between the two and I did think of people who don't get enough exercise, work in an office, and watch TV the rest of the day.
throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
Well, let's see... > We can climb on negative inclines, Can you? > run an ultra-marathon, Have you ever? > lift several times our own weight, Can you? > deep-dive, Have you ever? > heal massive wounds, Unless we die from them, yup. > our immune system is without par, Meaningless claim. > and we perform all kinds of feats of dexterity And birds can can't, but they can fly. Elephant's can't but they've got long noses. etc. So? Human exceptionalism (from a human, I assume)
- lostlogin 7y ago
  Add in the fact that humans can work together and then not all those roles need filling by each individual.
ijidak 7y ago
Interesting. What do you mean that our immune system is without par? Do we have a better immune system than other primates and other animal groups?
- ganzuul 6y ago
  So I have gathered but I don't have sources saying the same. Animal models (read: tests on other mammals) for studying our immune system are rather inaccurate, and auto-immune diseases are very dangerous to humans. Perhaps other social predators actually are on the same level as us.

AnotherGoodName 7y ago

I believe persistent hunting also encourages very high intelligence for the tracking aspect as well. You're essentially emulating another creatures brain in order to figure out their likely movements whenever they go out of sight.

SuoDuanDao 7y ago
That's a great point. I once saw one of those "HFY" threads where someone was speculating that if we became a warrior species in a multiplanetary federation, we'd be feared not just for our tenacity but also our ability to play mind games. Basically, "Never play poker against a human".
hyperpallium 7y ago
Not sure how important this is, often not needed if there are tracks etc. It would help, but wouldn't a better sense of smell help more?
- AnotherGoodName 7y ago
  If you watch the attenborough documentary linked above it has some clear examples. "The hunters have no tracks at this point and so must imagine the path the Kudu has taken". And later, "The tracks have disappeared again. He imagines being in the mind of the Kudu to deduce the direction it must have fled". There's also the case that tracks alone need a lot of intelligence to process. "Here they can see the Kudu were running by the spacing of the tracks and the bull is isolated and taking a different track". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
  - hyperpallium 6y ago
    I posted that link. My comment was about relative importance.

ed_balls 7y ago

That saliva bit... I just thought about another virus outbreak. Another persistence hunter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNbqvqf3-14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNbqvqf3-14