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Doesn't Tesla already underpay relative to other tech companies?
by seattle_spring 7y ago
Doesn't Tesla already underpay relative to other tech companies?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mrtweetyhack 7y agoWhy is Tesla a tech company?
- mulmen 7y agoWell Tesla isn't a tech company. They should really only be compared to other auto manufacturers and maybe some dealers.
- systemvoltage 7y agoJust curious, how do you define what a tech company is?
- philipov 7y agoIt's a really strange label. I think most people define it as "Whatever those crazy guys in Silicon Valley are doing/funding," because I can't imagine a world where there exists automotive manufacturing that isn't considered technology.
- systemvoltage 7y agoIn addition, I think the definition of the term "Technology" is quite broad. According to the Oxford dictionary, Technology: The application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes, especially in industry. In the formal terms, tech industry is all industry that relies on scientific knowledge to gain leverage. What large industry today doesn't involve using science in some form or the other? Perhaps the industry of religion. It is hard to find one and there is a gradual curve between least scientifically based industry to the most.
- philipov 7y agoExactly. It feels like the term was invented by people who think that Information Technology is the only technology worth mentioning, and that's a bit perverse.
- cerved 7y agoTech companies often spend most of their money on R&D. Manufacturing typically instead has high capital expenditure.
- philipov 7y agoWhile I agree that one would expect a tech company to spend a lot on R&D, I'm not sure how accurately this definition corresponds with what people mean when they say those words. Alphabet only had about 20% of its expenditures going to R&D in 2019, so does that mean it's not a tech company? Meanwhile, Tesla have had close to 50% of their expenditures going towards R&D year after year. Ford had less than 5% of expenditures go to R&D in 2019. By this measure, Tesla is definitely a tech company, but Alphabet might not be. I might... actually want to agree with that, but again, I don't think people who use the phrase would.
- castratikron 7y agoTo be fair R&D at 50% of revenue is massive. They are basically a university.
- philipov 7y agoActually, I looked at the wrong numbers. Their R&D is a lot more in line with other automotive manufacturers at 6.6% of total expenditures (for 2018). The majority of their expenditures go into Cost of Revenues (building and delivering the cars), with Operating Expenses being a distant second.
- xiphias2 7y agoActually Google was earlier a tech company, but it was reclassified into communications sector in 2018. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1F037G https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/...
- philipov 7y agoFacebook is also classified as Communications, and Amazon is Consumer. In fact, of all the FAANG companies, the only tech company is Apple. Microsoft and IBM, too, if you include them.
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoA company whose product is technology rather than something like advertising, media or hotel booking.
- justapassenger 7y agoTesla is really strange company. They don’t pay like tech and don’t have same business flexibility. But at the same time they’re valued like tech and take same shortcuts (or “optimizations”) in the processes like tech.
- kiba 7y agoShortcut? It seemed that Tesla is doing incredible engineering and that they learned their lessons.
- thematt 7y agoWhat lessons have they learned?
- Rebelgecko 7y agoSome lessons learned here from an unverified source For example, make sure you have enough error handling so that a malformed JSON file doesn't bootloop all of your cars https://mobile.twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404645376 https://mobile.twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404...
- city41 7y agoI feel the distinction these days is pretty blurry. Tesla writes a lot of software and hires a lot of engineers. I personally know of several people who left FAANG jobs to join Tesla.
- philipov 7y agoFacebook, Alphabet, Netflix, and Amazon are not tech companies. Communications, Communications, Communications, and Consumer, respectively. Apple is a tech company.
- Jimmc414 7y agoI think you've got it completely backwards. There are quite a few broken Tesla short sellers who lost billions trying to assign an automotive valuation to Tesla.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tenpies 7y agoThey contract most of the factory workers out so they can claim it's not Tesla. There are some absolutely awful stories that come out of Tesla's factories. Like horrible injury rates, extremely high drug usage, workplace doctors incentivized to not report anything, and workers suffering permanent life-destroying injuries due to Tesla's negligence. Some day I hope these stories come to light in the mainstream and technology "journalism", but I am not hopeful that Musk will ever be held accountable.
- kiba 7y agoOK, but what is the base rate for injuries? Car factories can be dangerous place, so you would expect a certain amount of injuries over time, doctors with shady backgrounds, etc. Keep in mind that everything Tesla do is scrutinized and publicized, along with every stories of malfeasance, real or imagined, along with Tesla fanboy and Tesla haters amplifying the noise. Which of course, make it incredibly difficult to be objective.
- nradov 7y agoThere's no particular reason for car factories to be dangerous. It's just sloppy management.
- kiba 7y agoI am not asking about whether it should happen, but what is typical for an automotive factory.
- pkkim 7y agoHi, I worked for the UAW campaign to organize Tesla a while back, and I did some of the data analysis for this report. https://uaw.org/report-worksafe-internal-tesla-data-shows-injury-rates-fremont-facility-significantly-higher-national-average/amp/ https://uaw.org/report-worksafe-internal-tesla-data-shows-in... I wish I could answer questions about it but at this point it's been years and I've forgotten basically all the details. I will say though that there were suspicious gaps in Tesla's incident reports of months going by without the slightest incident, from the very beginning of I think April 2015 to the end of the calendar year. You may dismiss it as biased, since it obviously is, but the methodology of the portions I worked on or saw was honest.