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I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. Ideally, they'd be cheap enough for municipalities to buy and distribute.

ForHackernews 7y ago
Why? Most ordinary non-healthcare-worker people have no need for this level of PPE, especially if they're following social distances rules like they should be.
- cbhl 7y ago
  I have seen restaurant employees also wearing face shields, especially if they work cash. A lot of places near me have also been putting up sheets of plastic between the cashier and the customer.
- nsxwolf 7y ago
  I can't control what other people do in grocery stores. They walk too close and there's nothing I can do about it. I'd like something to keep shit out of my eyes.
  - mitjak 7y ago
    not to equivocate but this reminds me of the pro gun control discussion
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      Masks are shields, not arms. they pose no risk to others. If you are referring to humans as potentially lethal weapons, and stay at home orders, then, yup.
  - selectodude 7y ago
    Wear sunglasses.
    - nsxwolf 7y ago
      Maybe chemical goggles. Though I'm wary of anything that touches my face, because I have to wash my face and worry about pushing the virus into my eyes.
      - DennisP 7y ago
        Bear in mind that soap doesn't just wash off the virus, it destroys it. The virus is held together by lipids, which soap dissolves. Still, that's an interesting point, maybe it's a good reason face shields are better than goggles.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    I'm not saying don't get a face shield, but even with shield and mask you still want to maintain distance. Last time I shopped in a grocery store, I went when it wasn't crowded and prioritized staying away from people. If someone came towards me I went the other way. If someone was already in an aisle pointed toward me, or was pointed the other way but not far along, I didn't go into that aisle just then. If someone stood in front of an item I wanted, I came back for it, or skipped it if it wasn't important. I also wore a mask, but I treated that store as hostile territory, focused on avoiding people, and got the heck out as fast as I could.
  - _jal 7y ago
    Get a welding mask, then. It'll do the same thing.
  - megablast 7y ago
    > They walk too close and there's nothing I can do about it. Are you stuck in place? Can you not move? Do you have no voice? There is a lot you can do, and other do about it.
  - brodie 7y ago
    If you got something directed at your eyes, you’ll be inhaling something anyway. Wear glasses or shades and stop depriving hospitals of limited supplies they actually need. You don’t need it. Buying one is tantamount to endangering lives of hospital workers.
olliej 7y ago
Maybe some day, but hospitals are obviously going to get priority until they have sufficient PPE for all their employees. Hospitals are already unable to provide sufficient PPE for the doctors and nurses, let alone the rest of the on site staff - so any mask going to a non care provider means a care provider does not have such.
docbrown 7y ago
> I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. This burst of PPE being produced in mass quantities are and were never meant to go in the hands of the general public (i.e., non healthcare workers), though. The general public does not need to be walking around with a full face shield, that’ll be a waste of materials, time and money, unfortunately.
- epicureanideal 7y ago
  Given that they probably would cost $1 to $5, and take almost no space to store, it wouldn't be a terrible thing for people to have a few if they want them. How many people have a $20 multi-tool that stays in a drawer somewhere? Or some bags of rice "just in case" that end up getting thrown in the trash after being forgotten about in the cabinet for 5 years? It may not be a terrible thing if some percentage of people buy "unnecessary" Personal Protective Equipment. It creates some distributed supply in case something unexpected happens, even if under normal circumstances the equipment is unused.
  - abduhl 7y ago
    What about the environmental impact of people buying everything "just in case?" Should we be stockpiling oil like crazy right now when prices are low just in case (while also artificially driving up demand)? Isn't one of the key criticisms of farm and manufacturing subsidies that they are wasteful uses of our budget while one of the arguments in favor of them is that it maintains our infrastructure "just in case"? What about trying to buy out a foreign company to control a coronavirus vaccine or mandating that all domestic companies fulfill federal government orders before any international orders so that we have enough materials "just in case"? My point here is that the just in case attitude for non-essential goods like PPE normalizes the same thinking in other arenas and it is unclear where we should draw the line. It is a slippery slope.
    - ribs 7y ago
      Yeah but he said face shield
    - 7y ago
robotresearcher 7y ago
Apple is making a million a week and donating direct to regional health services.
dwighttk 7y ago
Would just take 6.3 years at current rate of production to make that many. Unless my math is wrong: 330M/52
tptacek 7y ago
Face shields make sense in clinical settings, but do they make much sense for casual use? It's hard enough to get people to wear masks.
- gentaro 7y ago
  They make sense if there's a big apple logo on the front.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- thdrdt 7y ago
  The Dutch police is now free to use them as spit masks. Unfortunately there are people who like to spit and cough in the faces of the police (and then being charged with weeks in jail). But I doubt it will work well against coughing because the airflow can just go around it. LaVision had this great visualisation about the coughing airflow: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk
celticninja 7y ago
this sort of face shield is useful in clinical situations where the wearer is protected from patients who may cough or sneeze right in their face. for going to the shop what you need is an N95 or just mouth/nose covering mask/scarf.
- ricardobeat 7y ago
  Might be useful for the shop clerk though, who is seeing a hundred people in a row.
  - brodie 7y ago
    Plenty of essential public areas are building plastic drapes. That’s effectively the same thing but likely cheaper and not depriving medical professionals of anything.
    - celticninja 7y ago
      here in the UK they are introducing plastic shields between checkout operators and customers. largely the same and saves staff from needing to wear PPE
jjallen 7y ago
Woofie11 expresses hope that everyone should be able to have a shield, not just health care workers first and people here down vote them? What's so wrong with that? Do you not believe that yes, everyone should be able to have protective equipment not just health care workers? In what kind of a country do we live where we have to ration health care supplies (a basic one at that -- it's literally clear plastic) to only those working directly in health care? It's merely a hope woofie11 expressed, and I too have the same hope: that yes, our system is good enough to protect everyone and rationing shouldn't be needed. Woofie11 said nothing about not giving supplies to those that most need it first and nor have I.
- ogre_codes 7y ago
  From the post above “These pack flat, one hundred per box..." it's clear they are packaged for large organizations. They almost certainly have zero interest in developing individual packaging for consumers. Didn't vote him down, but it is a bit silly. Apple isn't becoming a medical supply company, they are producing a product to fill an urgent medical need. They don't have the distribution network to supply these to retail, nor is it likely they ever will.
  - jjallen 7y ago
    You don't think Apple has literally one of the best distribution networks in the world? What percent of the country is within a few miles of an Apple store that already receives shipments a few times a week?
    - FireBeyond 7y ago
      A lot less than you think. Huge swathes of the country don't have Apple stores. Even living in the Puget Sound region, my nearest Apple store is 25 miles from me. By and large Apple distribution is "UPS". Both to wholesale and retail.
    - ogre_codes 7y ago
      Apple stores aren't getting any shipments right now. Even if they were, those stores are closed and Apple isn't going to open them to sell a few face masks to consumers. By the time Apple stores open, even fewer people will want face masks. (And Apple won't want them on their shelves regardless) Apple's distribution network is built around selling consumer electronics, not medical supplies. This isn't remotely the sort of product Apple would manufacture and sell. It's not worth the time and effort to design retail packaging for it.
gambler 7y ago
Like I posted below, you can make an improvised "face shield" out of plastic food wrap in about 15 seconds. No parts needed. Wrap it around your head at forehead level so it sticks to itself. Keep the bottom part loose, so you can freely breathe. Readily available, cheap, disposable, lightweight, does not restrict visibility. If you're working in the wind, you might need to weigh down the bottom part with something, but that's also trivial to do.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  Or just put a two-gallon sandwich bag over your head. Not recommended for infants and small children, of course...
- ericflo 7y ago
  You're saying to literally wrap your face in plastic wrap and leave a little hole to breathe? I think someone's going to try this advice and suffocate.
  - gambler 7y ago
    >You're saying to literally wrap your face in plastic Are you trolling or serious? I said forehead, not face. Obviously, do not wrap plastic foil around your face.
    - ericflo 7y ago
      If it's around your forehead, how is it shielding you?
      - raisedbyninjas 7y ago
        Plastic food wrap in my country comes in rolls 12-24" wide. This is more than enough to cover your forehead down past your lower jaw.
trynewideas 7y ago
if you aren't intubating people or treating severe cases of this stupid virus then get in the back of the line behind everyone who is
mc32 7y ago
Protective Goggles (like the 3M type) would be a better fit for most use cases. No need for touching or readjusting, having to be careful when looking down, etc.
geomark 7y ago
Make your own. Transparency sheet with corners cut rounded, foam strip cut from a sponge stuck along one edge of the sheet with double sided tape, elastic strap stapled to two corners. Easy and effective. We have been making and donating them to hopsitals and first responders in our area (not in the US) who are happy to get them.
- adamqureshi 7y ago
  Do you know where i could download a design spec ? I know a guy who wants to take a crack it making a face shield.
paulie_a 7y ago
That would counter the stay at home initiatives. People would think it's safe again. If they want to make them for sale they should, 1k a mask for the general public.

ForHackernews 7y ago

Why? Most ordinary non-healthcare-worker people have no need for this level of PPE, especially if they're following social distances rules like they should be.

cbhl 7y ago
I have seen restaurant employees also wearing face shields, especially if they work cash. A lot of places near me have also been putting up sheets of plastic between the cashier and the customer.
nsxwolf 7y ago
I can't control what other people do in grocery stores. They walk too close and there's nothing I can do about it. I'd like something to keep shit out of my eyes.
- mitjak 7y ago
  not to equivocate but this reminds me of the pro gun control discussion
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Masks are shields, not arms. they pose no risk to others. If you are referring to humans as potentially lethal weapons, and stay at home orders, then, yup.
- selectodude 7y ago
  Wear sunglasses.
  - nsxwolf 7y ago
    Maybe chemical goggles. Though I'm wary of anything that touches my face, because I have to wash my face and worry about pushing the virus into my eyes.
    - DennisP 7y ago
      Bear in mind that soap doesn't just wash off the virus, it destroys it. The virus is held together by lipids, which soap dissolves. Still, that's an interesting point, maybe it's a good reason face shields are better than goggles.
- DennisP 7y ago
  I'm not saying don't get a face shield, but even with shield and mask you still want to maintain distance. Last time I shopped in a grocery store, I went when it wasn't crowded and prioritized staying away from people. If someone came towards me I went the other way. If someone was already in an aisle pointed toward me, or was pointed the other way but not far along, I didn't go into that aisle just then. If someone stood in front of an item I wanted, I came back for it, or skipped it if it wasn't important. I also wore a mask, but I treated that store as hostile territory, focused on avoiding people, and got the heck out as fast as I could.
- _jal 7y ago
  Get a welding mask, then. It'll do the same thing.
- megablast 7y ago
  > They walk too close and there's nothing I can do about it. Are you stuck in place? Can you not move? Do you have no voice? There is a lot you can do, and other do about it.
- brodie 7y ago
  If you got something directed at your eyes, you’ll be inhaling something anyway. Wear glasses or shades and stop depriving hospitals of limited supplies they actually need. You don’t need it. Buying one is tantamount to endangering lives of hospital workers.

olliej 7y ago

Maybe some day, but hospitals are obviously going to get priority until they have sufficient PPE for all their employees. Hospitals are already unable to provide sufficient PPE for the doctors and nurses, let alone the rest of the on site staff - so any mask going to a non care provider means a care provider does not have such.

docbrown 7y ago

> I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. This burst of PPE being produced in mass quantities are and were never meant to go in the hands of the general public (i.e., non healthcare workers), though. The general public does not need to be walking around with a full face shield, that’ll be a waste of materials, time and money, unfortunately.

epicureanideal 7y ago
Given that they probably would cost $1 to $5, and take almost no space to store, it wouldn't be a terrible thing for people to have a few if they want them. How many people have a $20 multi-tool that stays in a drawer somewhere? Or some bags of rice "just in case" that end up getting thrown in the trash after being forgotten about in the cabinet for 5 years? It may not be a terrible thing if some percentage of people buy "unnecessary" Personal Protective Equipment. It creates some distributed supply in case something unexpected happens, even if under normal circumstances the equipment is unused.
- abduhl 7y ago
  What about the environmental impact of people buying everything "just in case?" Should we be stockpiling oil like crazy right now when prices are low just in case (while also artificially driving up demand)? Isn't one of the key criticisms of farm and manufacturing subsidies that they are wasteful uses of our budget while one of the arguments in favor of them is that it maintains our infrastructure "just in case"? What about trying to buy out a foreign company to control a coronavirus vaccine or mandating that all domestic companies fulfill federal government orders before any international orders so that we have enough materials "just in case"? My point here is that the just in case attitude for non-essential goods like PPE normalizes the same thinking in other arenas and it is unclear where we should draw the line. It is a slippery slope.
  - ribs 7y ago
    Yeah but he said face shield
  - 7y ago

robotresearcher 7y ago

Apple is making a million a week and donating direct to regional health services.

dwighttk 7y ago

Would just take 6.3 years at current rate of production to make that many. Unless my math is wrong: 330M/52

tptacek 7y ago

Face shields make sense in clinical settings, but do they make much sense for casual use? It's hard enough to get people to wear masks.

gentaro 7y ago
They make sense if there's a big apple logo on the front.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
thdrdt 7y ago
The Dutch police is now free to use them as spit masks. Unfortunately there are people who like to spit and cough in the faces of the police (and then being charged with weeks in jail). But I doubt it will work well against coughing because the airflow can just go around it. LaVision had this great visualisation about the coughing airflow: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk

celticninja 7y ago

this sort of face shield is useful in clinical situations where the wearer is protected from patients who may cough or sneeze right in their face. for going to the shop what you need is an N95 or just mouth/nose covering mask/scarf.

ricardobeat 7y ago
Might be useful for the shop clerk though, who is seeing a hundred people in a row.
- brodie 7y ago
  Plenty of essential public areas are building plastic drapes. That’s effectively the same thing but likely cheaper and not depriving medical professionals of anything.
  - celticninja 7y ago
    here in the UK they are introducing plastic shields between checkout operators and customers. largely the same and saves staff from needing to wear PPE

jjallen 7y ago

Woofie11 expresses hope that everyone should be able to have a shield, not just health care workers first and people here down vote them? What's so wrong with that? Do you not believe that yes, everyone should be able to have protective equipment not just health care workers? In what kind of a country do we live where we have to ration health care supplies (a basic one at that -- it's literally clear plastic) to only those working directly in health care? It's merely a hope woofie11 expressed, and I too have the same hope: that yes, our system is good enough to protect everyone and rationing shouldn't be needed. Woofie11 said nothing about not giving supplies to those that most need it first and nor have I.

ogre_codes 7y ago
From the post above “These pack flat, one hundred per box..." it's clear they are packaged for large organizations. They almost certainly have zero interest in developing individual packaging for consumers. Didn't vote him down, but it is a bit silly. Apple isn't becoming a medical supply company, they are producing a product to fill an urgent medical need. They don't have the distribution network to supply these to retail, nor is it likely they ever will.
- jjallen 7y ago
  You don't think Apple has literally one of the best distribution networks in the world? What percent of the country is within a few miles of an Apple store that already receives shipments a few times a week?
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    A lot less than you think. Huge swathes of the country don't have Apple stores. Even living in the Puget Sound region, my nearest Apple store is 25 miles from me. By and large Apple distribution is "UPS". Both to wholesale and retail.
  - ogre_codes 7y ago
    Apple stores aren't getting any shipments right now. Even if they were, those stores are closed and Apple isn't going to open them to sell a few face masks to consumers. By the time Apple stores open, even fewer people will want face masks. (And Apple won't want them on their shelves regardless) Apple's distribution network is built around selling consumer electronics, not medical supplies. This isn't remotely the sort of product Apple would manufacture and sell. It's not worth the time and effort to design retail packaging for it.

gambler 7y ago

Like I posted below, you can make an improvised "face shield" out of plastic food wrap in about 15 seconds. No parts needed. Wrap it around your head at forehead level so it sticks to itself. Keep the bottom part loose, so you can freely breathe. Readily available, cheap, disposable, lightweight, does not restrict visibility. If you're working in the wind, you might need to weigh down the bottom part with something, but that's also trivial to do.

CamperBob2 7y ago
Or just put a two-gallon sandwich bag over your head. Not recommended for infants and small children, of course...
ericflo 7y ago
You're saying to literally wrap your face in plastic wrap and leave a little hole to breathe? I think someone's going to try this advice and suffocate.
- gambler 7y ago
  >You're saying to literally wrap your face in plastic Are you trolling or serious? I said forehead, not face. Obviously, do not wrap plastic foil around your face.
  - ericflo 7y ago
    If it's around your forehead, how is it shielding you?
    - raisedbyninjas 7y ago
      Plastic food wrap in my country comes in rolls 12-24" wide. This is more than enough to cover your forehead down past your lower jaw.

trynewideas 7y ago

if you aren't intubating people or treating severe cases of this stupid virus then get in the back of the line behind everyone who is

mc32 7y ago

Protective Goggles (like the 3M type) would be a better fit for most use cases. No need for touching or readjusting, having to be careful when looking down, etc.

geomark 7y ago

Make your own. Transparency sheet with corners cut rounded, foam strip cut from a sponge stuck along one edge of the sheet with double sided tape, elastic strap stapled to two corners. Easy and effective. We have been making and donating them to hopsitals and first responders in our area (not in the US) who are happy to get them.

adamqureshi 7y ago
Do you know where i could download a design spec ? I know a guy who wants to take a crack it making a face shield.

paulie_a 7y ago

That would counter the stay at home initiatives. People would think it's safe again. If they want to make them for sale they should, 1k a mask for the general public.