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Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shields-masks-covid-19-coronavirus https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield..

by gowld 7y ago

Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shields-masks-covid-19-coronavirus https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield... “Our first shipment was delivered to Kaiser hospital facilities in the Santa Clara Valley this past week, and the feedback from doctors was very positive,” Cook says. “These pack flat, one hundred per box. Each shield is assembled in less than two minutes and is fully adjustable. We’re sourcing materials and manufacturing in the US and China.” Apple plans to ship more than one million shields by the end of this week and a further million each week after that. So far the company has been working to distribute them across the US, but plans to expand elsewhere soon. “Our focus is on unique ways Apple can help, meeting essential needs of caregivers urgently and at a scale the circumstances require,” Cook says.

bloopernova 7y ago
Thank you! I had missed this news, so a link to a support article with no explanation was a little mystifying.
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  I expected this to be for apple factory workers, surprised to see its being sold to other companies.
  - stuart78 7y ago
    I believe they are donated to the medical community, not sold.
  - irjustin 7y ago
    Donated, not sold: https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/apple-donating-20-million-n95-respirators-manufacturing-face-shields-fight-covid-19.html https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/apple-donating-20-million-n95...
  - briandear 7y ago
    They aren’t selling them, they are giving them away.
  - simonh 7y ago
    These are only used by doctors and nurses when treating patients with open airways at very close range to protect from direct splatters with body fluids. Eg when intubating a patient that’s having explosive coughing fits. They are also part of a complete protective system including a mask, elasticated hair cover, full body wrap aprons and long arm gloves. There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear because if you are in a situation where you need the shield, you also need the rest as well. Most medical professionals don’t even wear this full kit routinely in hospitals, let alone when they are out in public, so there’s no need for the public to use them in general working conditions.
    - barry-cotter 7y ago
      > There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear because if you are in a situation where you need the shield, you also need the rest as well. This is the same class of bullshit the WHO, CDC and FDA were pushing about face masks less than a week ago. There is no way this is worse than nothing. If a face shield used with no other PPE reduces the viral load the average healthcare worker is exposed to by 1% fewer people will be infected and those who do will be more likely to recover as their immune system has more time to ramp up defenses. This will reduce R0. There is no plausible mechanism of action for a face shield to work as PPE together with a respirator, or as part of a full suit of PPE, under which it provides no protection when used alone.
      - youstupidcunt 7y ago
        You literally have not a clue what you're talking about but you think because you now know what R0 that you're a fucking expert. You probably think cycle helmets should be mandatory. TL;DR. you are a dumb over confident cunt who needs to sit down and shut up.
      - masukomi 7y ago
        > There is no way this is worse than nothing. correct. it's not worse than nothing. it's literally not possible to be "worse than nothing". However to your point it only protects against spray. So, yes, it's better than nothing if you're in front of someone coughing / vomiting directly on you. BUT it doesn't do much of anything for the aerosolized particles. Better masks has coverings above the top to prevent those from coming in from above, but in this case apple appears to be going for quantity and speed over quality. > if a face shield used with no other PPE reduces the viral load the average healthcare worker is exposed to by 1% If you are practicing social distancing then a face shield really provides essentially zero protection. I have seen no evidence or even suggestion by a medical professional that wearing these while keeping a distance from infected individuals would provide ANY protection. The main problem is aerosolized material (also direct contact but gloves and not touching your face address that). These don't help with aerosolized material. It just floats around them and gets inhaled anyway. You want these if you are up close to someone who is infected or potentially infected because mouths spew forth bad things: vomit, coughing, etc. and you frequently don't have time to jump out of the way.
- futhey 7y ago
  They're donating a million face shields by the end of the week to hospitals and medical facilities with the greatest need, and 20m by the end of the month, designed by Apple and sourced via their existing supply chain.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    A writeup of how that was accomplished (because it seems it was a new design, or maybe an adapted design) would be very interesting. Did they adapt an existing cutting tool? New tool? What were those factories making before the pandemic?
    - mch82 7y ago
      Going only off of the video I saw of Tim Cook with the shield... The entire shield is a clear plastic film. It’s held against the forehead using a fabric strap. The shield appears to be either die cut or laser cut, which explains the production speed. A lot of the face shields shown online are 3D printed with hard plastic components, which is a very slow process. The material looks a lot like the clear plastic film that wraps an iPhone or even an iPad charger. The shield folds together in the same origami-like way. Based on comments about the supply chain being involved, it seems like they leveraged the existing manufacturing process for Apple product packaging and thickened the plastic.
      - dmurray 7y ago
        3D printing seems crazy for a single sheet of bendy plastic that needs to be mass produced. Cutting them out by hand with a knife or a scissors would be better than 3d printing, never mind laser or die cutting.
        Teever 7y ago
        I'm not sure what the person above is talking about. I haven't seen a single face shield design involving a 3d printed piece that didn't also require a sheet of bendy plastic cut to fit with that 3d printed piece.
woofie11 7y ago
I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. Ideally, they'd be cheap enough for municipalities to buy and distribute.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  Why? Most ordinary non-healthcare-worker people have no need for this level of PPE, especially if they're following social distances rules like they should be.
  - cbhl 7y ago
    I have seen restaurant employees also wearing face shields, especially if they work cash. A lot of places near me have also been putting up sheets of plastic between the cashier and the customer.
  - nsxwolf 7y ago
    I can't control what other people do in grocery stores. They walk too close and there's nothing I can do about it. I'd like something to keep shit out of my eyes.
    - mitjak 7y ago
      not to equivocate but this reminds me of the pro gun control discussion
      - lonelappde 7y ago
        Masks are shields, not arms. they pose no risk to others. If you are referring to humans as potentially lethal weapons, and stay at home orders, then, yup.
    - selectodude 7y ago
      Wear sunglasses.
      - 7y ago
seeTheAstroturf 7y ago
>feedback from doctors was very positive If it didn't work, they would say the same thing. Source- first years of butterfly keyboard
- Munky-Necan 7y ago
  So you're saying that four years from now they will have the "updated" design implemented
- andy_ppp 7y ago
  I actually quite like the butterfly keyboard and have never had a problem with it. I’m using a MacBook 16 inch keyboard and I’m finding I am extremely used to the butterfly style keyboard.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    The 16 inch switched back to a scissor mechanism. I do like the butterfly keys though, it’s only the reliability issues that make them problematic for me. Until keys started being flaky I was perfectly happy with it.
    - andy_ppp 7y ago
      Ah sorry my comment is ambiguous; I’m saying I 100% prefer butterfly keys over the new 16 inch keyboard. I’m sure I’ll get used to it though.
      - samatman 7y ago
        You're not alone, I had a mostly-broken left command key for the better part of a year so I despise the butterfly keys. Nonetheless, when I switched to a 16 inch it felt mushy and weird, and that's with almost a decade using the previous scissor keyboards, which feel effectively identical. I got used to it pretty quick though, and you couldn't pay me to go back.
        7y ago
arized 7y ago
> manufacturing in the US and China Mixed feelings about this. What happened to the reports that Apple suppliers were essentially using slave labour to build their products in China? I didn't see any response at all from them - do they care? https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-forced-uighur-labor-iphone-factory-2020-3?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-forced-uighur-labor-ip...
- zepto 7y ago
  Pretty much applies to anyone who uses factories in China. I’m not saying it’s not a problem, but it’s not an Apple problem. It’s a doing business with China problem.
- cheez 7y ago
  I'd be more concerned about Chinese suppliers who have privately said they would supply faulty equipment related to corona virus to the US.
  - arized 7y ago
    Really? I would consider unchallenged, systemic slavery to be a fairly important problem. Not something to be dismissed as less concerning than another critical issue. I am just surprised by the complete lack of news. How many people do we think would choose not to buy a smartphone made in China this year, if they knew the supply chain used slavery. Sadly, I don't think people care - as long as they get the latest iPhone... (maybe why I am being downvoted?)
    - ironmagma 7y ago
      I thought it was already well established that anything you buy from China has some level of child/slave labor attached to it. Most people see it as an externality.
    - valuearb 7y ago
      If you care about slave labor, buying Apple would be one of your mitigations. They have extensive outside review of their supply chain practices, reported on regularly. Your risks are more smaller companies that the media hasn’t put through the ringer. And Samsung, which got caught using prison labor.
dehrmann 7y ago
For people not aware (I doubt that it's many in this audience), Santa Clara Valley is better(?) known as Silicon Valley. It's where Apple's based, and it's unpleasantly warm spot in the US for SARS-CoV-2 infections.
- PinguTS 7y ago
  Please tell that the virus, if you take a closer look at even warmer spots like New Orleans. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/map-reveals-hidden-u-s-hotspots-of-coronavirus-infection/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/map-reveals-hidde...
  - jwandborg 7y ago
    I think the parent meant "warm" as in "hot spot".
ehsankia 7y ago
I'm curious, I've been seeing a lot of calls for 3D printing similar looking Face shields, which are very different from face masks. What is the use for this? Are they actually useful to health care professionals? Face mask + goggles fully covers the 3 places the virus can enter (mouth, nose and eyes), but these shields seem like they would be more useful for people who have the virus than those who don't.
- zimpenfish 7y ago
  > Face mask + goggles fully covers the 3 places the virus can enter (mouth, nose and eyes) I believe face masks are only 95% effective at best and that's only with a proper N95 which a lot of medical staff appear not to be able to get hold of. Hence they're wearing things like Buffs or cycling masks to make do. In that situation, having another layer that can stop droplets etc. from reaching the mask in the first place makes sense to me. Plus it stops a whole lot of messy body fluids from reaching the mask and goggles which cuts out a swap/clean cycle (again, difficult if there's no spares!) [Edit to correct 'googles' to 'goggles', FFHS]
  - varenc 7y ago
    An N95 respirator is rated to block at least 95% of 0.3 μm particles. It’ll do waaay better than 95% at blocking droplets! They’re much larger. (though N99 and N100 respirators do exist)
    - stubish 7y ago
      But remember that a respirator blocks 0% of particles getting in your eyes.
  - ehsankia 7y ago
    I see, so are they wearing these shields on top of the usual mask?
- disillusioned 7y ago
  Face shields provide specific protection against bodily fluids: sneezes, blood sprays, etc., that would further soil the masks you wear underneath them. This study talks through the advantages of adding them to the repertoire for infectious disease control as part of your PPE: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015006/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015006/

by gowld 7y ago

bloopernova 7y ago

Thank you! I had missed this news, so a link to a support article with no explanation was a little mystifying.

Polylactic_acid 7y ago
I expected this to be for apple factory workers, surprised to see its being sold to other companies.
- stuart78 7y ago
  I believe they are donated to the medical community, not sold.
- irjustin 7y ago
  Donated, not sold: https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/apple-donating-20-million-n95-respirators-manufacturing-face-shields-fight-covid-19.html https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/apple-donating-20-million-n95...
- briandear 7y ago
  They aren’t selling them, they are giving them away.
- simonh 7y ago
  These are only used by doctors and nurses when treating patients with open airways at very close range to protect from direct splatters with body fluids. Eg when intubating a patient that’s having explosive coughing fits. They are also part of a complete protective system including a mask, elasticated hair cover, full body wrap aprons and long arm gloves. There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear because if you are in a situation where you need the shield, you also need the rest as well. Most medical professionals don’t even wear this full kit routinely in hospitals, let alone when they are out in public, so there’s no need for the public to use them in general working conditions.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    > There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear because if you are in a situation where you need the shield, you also need the rest as well. This is the same class of bullshit the WHO, CDC and FDA were pushing about face masks less than a week ago. There is no way this is worse than nothing. If a face shield used with no other PPE reduces the viral load the average healthcare worker is exposed to by 1% fewer people will be infected and those who do will be more likely to recover as their immune system has more time to ramp up defenses. This will reduce R0. There is no plausible mechanism of action for a face shield to work as PPE together with a respirator, or as part of a full suit of PPE, under which it provides no protection when used alone.
    - youstupidcunt 7y ago
      You literally have not a clue what you're talking about but you think because you now know what R0 that you're a fucking expert. You probably think cycle helmets should be mandatory. TL;DR. you are a dumb over confident cunt who needs to sit down and shut up.
    - masukomi 7y ago
      > There is no way this is worse than nothing. correct. it's not worse than nothing. it's literally not possible to be "worse than nothing". However to your point it only protects against spray. So, yes, it's better than nothing if you're in front of someone coughing / vomiting directly on you. BUT it doesn't do much of anything for the aerosolized particles. Better masks has coverings above the top to prevent those from coming in from above, but in this case apple appears to be going for quantity and speed over quality. > if a face shield used with no other PPE reduces the viral load the average healthcare worker is exposed to by 1% If you are practicing social distancing then a face shield really provides essentially zero protection. I have seen no evidence or even suggestion by a medical professional that wearing these while keeping a distance from infected individuals would provide ANY protection. The main problem is aerosolized material (also direct contact but gloves and not touching your face address that). These don't help with aerosolized material. It just floats around them and gets inhaled anyway. You want these if you are up close to someone who is infected or potentially infected because mouths spew forth bad things: vomit, coughing, etc. and you frequently don't have time to jump out of the way.
futhey 7y ago
They're donating a million face shields by the end of the week to hospitals and medical facilities with the greatest need, and 20m by the end of the month, designed by Apple and sourced via their existing supply chain.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  A writeup of how that was accomplished (because it seems it was a new design, or maybe an adapted design) would be very interesting. Did they adapt an existing cutting tool? New tool? What were those factories making before the pandemic?
  - mch82 7y ago
    Going only off of the video I saw of Tim Cook with the shield... The entire shield is a clear plastic film. It’s held against the forehead using a fabric strap. The shield appears to be either die cut or laser cut, which explains the production speed. A lot of the face shields shown online are 3D printed with hard plastic components, which is a very slow process. The material looks a lot like the clear plastic film that wraps an iPhone or even an iPad charger. The shield folds together in the same origami-like way. Based on comments about the supply chain being involved, it seems like they leveraged the existing manufacturing process for Apple product packaging and thickened the plastic.
    - dmurray 7y ago
      3D printing seems crazy for a single sheet of bendy plastic that needs to be mass produced. Cutting them out by hand with a knife or a scissors would be better than 3d printing, never mind laser or die cutting.
      - Teever 7y ago
        I'm not sure what the person above is talking about. I haven't seen a single face shield design involving a 3d printed piece that didn't also require a sheet of bendy plastic cut to fit with that 3d printed piece.

woofie11 7y ago

I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. Ideally, they'd be cheap enough for municipalities to buy and distribute.

ForHackernews 7y ago
Why? Most ordinary non-healthcare-worker people have no need for this level of PPE, especially if they're following social distances rules like they should be.
- cbhl 7y ago
  I have seen restaurant employees also wearing face shields, especially if they work cash. A lot of places near me have also been putting up sheets of plastic between the cashier and the customer.
- nsxwolf 7y ago
  I can't control what other people do in grocery stores. They walk too close and there's nothing I can do about it. I'd like something to keep shit out of my eyes.
  - mitjak 7y ago
    not to equivocate but this reminds me of the pro gun control discussion
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      Masks are shields, not arms. they pose no risk to others. If you are referring to humans as potentially lethal weapons, and stay at home orders, then, yup.
  - selectodude 7y ago
    Wear sunglasses.
    - 7y ago

seeTheAstroturf 7y ago

>feedback from doctors was very positive If it didn't work, they would say the same thing. Source- first years of butterfly keyboard

Munky-Necan 7y ago
So you're saying that four years from now they will have the "updated" design implemented
andy_ppp 7y ago
I actually quite like the butterfly keyboard and have never had a problem with it. I’m using a MacBook 16 inch keyboard and I’m finding I am extremely used to the butterfly style keyboard.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  The 16 inch switched back to a scissor mechanism. I do like the butterfly keys though, it’s only the reliability issues that make them problematic for me. Until keys started being flaky I was perfectly happy with it.
  - andy_ppp 7y ago
    Ah sorry my comment is ambiguous; I’m saying I 100% prefer butterfly keys over the new 16 inch keyboard. I’m sure I’ll get used to it though.
    - samatman 7y ago
      You're not alone, I had a mostly-broken left command key for the better part of a year so I despise the butterfly keys. Nonetheless, when I switched to a 16 inch it felt mushy and weird, and that's with almost a decade using the previous scissor keyboards, which feel effectively identical. I got used to it pretty quick though, and you couldn't pay me to go back.
      - 7y ago

arized 7y ago

> manufacturing in the US and China Mixed feelings about this. What happened to the reports that Apple suppliers were essentially using slave labour to build their products in China? I didn't see any response at all from them - do they care? https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-forced-uighur-labor-iphone-factory-2020-3?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-forced-uighur-labor-ip...

zepto 7y ago
Pretty much applies to anyone who uses factories in China. I’m not saying it’s not a problem, but it’s not an Apple problem. It’s a doing business with China problem.
cheez 7y ago
I'd be more concerned about Chinese suppliers who have privately said they would supply faulty equipment related to corona virus to the US.
- arized 7y ago
  Really? I would consider unchallenged, systemic slavery to be a fairly important problem. Not something to be dismissed as less concerning than another critical issue. I am just surprised by the complete lack of news. How many people do we think would choose not to buy a smartphone made in China this year, if they knew the supply chain used slavery. Sadly, I don't think people care - as long as they get the latest iPhone... (maybe why I am being downvoted?)
  - ironmagma 7y ago
    I thought it was already well established that anything you buy from China has some level of child/slave labor attached to it. Most people see it as an externality.
  - valuearb 7y ago
    If you care about slave labor, buying Apple would be one of your mitigations. They have extensive outside review of their supply chain practices, reported on regularly. Your risks are more smaller companies that the media hasn’t put through the ringer. And Samsung, which got caught using prison labor.

dehrmann 7y ago

For people not aware (I doubt that it's many in this audience), Santa Clara Valley is better(?) known as Silicon Valley. It's where Apple's based, and it's unpleasantly warm spot in the US for SARS-CoV-2 infections.

PinguTS 7y ago
Please tell that the virus, if you take a closer look at even warmer spots like New Orleans. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/map-reveals-hidden-u-s-hotspots-of-coronavirus-infection/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/map-reveals-hidde...
- jwandborg 7y ago
  I think the parent meant "warm" as in "hot spot".

ehsankia 7y ago

I'm curious, I've been seeing a lot of calls for 3D printing similar looking Face shields, which are very different from face masks. What is the use for this? Are they actually useful to health care professionals? Face mask + goggles fully covers the 3 places the virus can enter (mouth, nose and eyes), but these shields seem like they would be more useful for people who have the virus than those who don't.

zimpenfish 7y ago
> Face mask + goggles fully covers the 3 places the virus can enter (mouth, nose and eyes) I believe face masks are only 95% effective at best and that's only with a proper N95 which a lot of medical staff appear not to be able to get hold of. Hence they're wearing things like Buffs or cycling masks to make do. In that situation, having another layer that can stop droplets etc. from reaching the mask in the first place makes sense to me. Plus it stops a whole lot of messy body fluids from reaching the mask and goggles which cuts out a swap/clean cycle (again, difficult if there's no spares!) [Edit to correct 'googles' to 'goggles', FFHS]
- varenc 7y ago
  An N95 respirator is rated to block at least 95% of 0.3 μm particles. It’ll do waaay better than 95% at blocking droplets! They’re much larger. (though N99 and N100 respirators do exist)
  - stubish 7y ago
    But remember that a respirator blocks 0% of particles getting in your eyes.
- ehsankia 7y ago
  I see, so are they wearing these shields on top of the usual mask?
disillusioned 7y ago
Face shields provide specific protection against bodily fluids: sneezes, blood sprays, etc., that would further soil the masks you wear underneath them. This study talks through the advantages of adding them to the repertoire for infectious disease control as part of your PPE: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015006/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015006/