7 ms·

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, starting with the public outcry from Airbnb hosts who have had their bookings cancelled. And then, Cheesecake Facto

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, starting with the public outcry from Airbnb hosts who have had their bookings cancelled. And then, Cheesecake Factory announced it would not pay April 1 rent on any of its locations. The economic fallout of this situation is something we will all bear the brunt of. Landlords are not shielded from it. I'm not saying everyone should stop paying rent, but the fact of the matter is, if people and businesses are not making money for months on end, many of them will have no choice but to stop paying. It is unconscionable that someone thought to turn this into a blacklist which many of the unlucky millions who have recently lost their jobs will end up on.

monkeywork 7y ago
blacklist is bad yes I agree because it doesn't take situation in mind and current situation may not indicate anything about the renter in the future. Landlords are in a slightly different boat than say the restaurant down the street. The restaurant isn't forced to provide services to anyone if they aren't getting paid, most places right now have basically blocked evictions (which is a good thing) and forcing landlords to keep people in place regardless if they get paid or not. Many are turning this into a protest against rent and even if they have the means to pay are organizing rent strikes ... this is going to bite people in the butt this summer / fall when we are out of this mess. My not so informed opinion is that once states of emergency are lifted if you didn't pay your rent your landlord can take you to the arbitration board in your area ... if you can prove you were out of work then you get X months to pay back your back rent (where X maybe equals 2x the number of months you missed rent) and if you can't prove you were out of work you have 30 days to pay your back rent or your out.
- qqssccfftt 7y ago
  Maybe the landlords should get a job?
  - monkeywork 7y ago
    most have jobs.. not sure what your comment is implying. Do you believe landlords should offer their property and services for free?
    - HarryHirsch 7y ago
      He is talking about the lemon problem. Landowners are as a rule completely worthless. A conscientious landowner (if such a thing existed) spends more on maintenance but cannot recover the outlays because most everyone else makes higher profits and drives him out of business. We need a revolution.
      - monkeywork 7y ago
        >Landowners are as a rule completely worthless That's funny seems to me that without them we would have a LOT of homeless people. They have an asset and allow others to use it for a fee.... banks do the same thing, they have liquid capital they offer to others for a fee... would you say that banks as a rule are completely worthless? If we are talking about a fantasy utopia where 250-300 families who don't know each other are all going to gather together and put funds together to build an apartment complex in a major city and run it like a co-op then continue to live in fantasy land because that rarely if ever is the case.
        Loughla 7y ago
        >would you say that banks as a rule are completely worthless? OP didn't talk about banks, and I'm not sure the comparison is even valid. As for your second paragraph. This is a possibility. Why don't we do this? That seems like a good business opportunity. Someone to organize the coop, provide startup investment, and receive a fee for x# of years afterward. Like a mortgage, but for coops, requiring coop rules and regulations for everyone involved. That seems interesting.
        eppsilon 7y ago
        Sounds a lot like a condo?
  - nabakin 7y ago
    It's not like owning land is free... There are mortages to pay, maintenance costs, costs to having an empty apartment sit there between renters, a cost to find renters, upgrade costs, furnishing costs if you do that, taxes, security, management, regulations, savings for a crisis (if you're a responsible landlord), etc etc. Sure landlords can make a lot of money but it's not like they're some fountain of money that won't go bust after months of no rent. Not to mention most landlords have a job anyway.
    - nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
      The capitalists' justification for collecting the surplus value from the renters is said to be the reward for risking their capital. If there is no risk, what purpose does the landlord serve? (beyond simple property management, which requires no ownership of capital)
      - monkeywork 7y ago
        does that hold true for car rentals as well?
- cgriswald 7y ago
  In my county, renters have to show hardship to skip their rent. Then they have 90 days to pay back any missed rent once the emergency has passed, which they can extend, 30 days at a time, up to 180 days total (including the first 90) if they can still show hardship. Additionally, you cannot be evicted for lack of payment during the emergency. After is less clear.
  - monkeywork 7y ago
    That policy seems to align well with what my gut tells me was fair in my post.
  - jlokier 7y ago
    In my country, the UK, it's not that good. Eviction proceedings require 3 months notice now. That's not as good as it sounds: It was already 2 months normally. Notice can still be given. If you miss rent on 1st April and then the grace period passes (which is not long), they can send you notice of eviction proceedings that will start in 3 months. So you can't be removed from your rented home for 3 months, but you can lose your right to continue renting there in 3 months, caused by events happening right now. I don't think they can evict due to lack of payment in the emergency. Which is just as well, because the notice period for non-payment eviction proceedings is quite short. However, landlords have the right to give no-reason eviction notices to most tenants anyway (I think it's mostly tenants who've been there for > 6 months). They don't need to give a reason, they just have to feel like it. The notice period for that is now 3 months instead of the former 2 months...
- pasquinelli 7y ago
  "Landlords are in a slightly different boat than say the restaurant down the street. The restaurant isn't forced to provide services to anyone if they aren't getting paid, most places right now have basically blocked evictions (which is a good thing) and forcing landlords to keep people in place regardless if they get paid or not." Restaurants make food, landlords don't do anything.
  - xur17 7y ago
    > landlords don't do anything. They pay the mortgage on the property, arrange (or do themselves) upkeep on the property, collect money, etc. We can argue if that's really worth anything, but they don't do nothing.

monkeywork 7y ago

blacklist is bad yes I agree because it doesn't take situation in mind and current situation may not indicate anything about the renter in the future. Landlords are in a slightly different boat than say the restaurant down the street. The restaurant isn't forced to provide services to anyone if they aren't getting paid, most places right now have basically blocked evictions (which is a good thing) and forcing landlords to keep people in place regardless if they get paid or not. Many are turning this into a protest against rent and even if they have the means to pay are organizing rent strikes ... this is going to bite people in the butt this summer / fall when we are out of this mess. My not so informed opinion is that once states of emergency are lifted if you didn't pay your rent your landlord can take you to the arbitration board in your area ... if you can prove you were out of work then you get X months to pay back your back rent (where X maybe equals 2x the number of months you missed rent) and if you can't prove you were out of work you have 30 days to pay your back rent or your out.

qqssccfftt 7y ago
Maybe the landlords should get a job?
- monkeywork 7y ago
  most have jobs.. not sure what your comment is implying. Do you believe landlords should offer their property and services for free?
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    He is talking about the lemon problem. Landowners are as a rule completely worthless. A conscientious landowner (if such a thing existed) spends more on maintenance but cannot recover the outlays because most everyone else makes higher profits and drives him out of business. We need a revolution.
    - monkeywork 7y ago
      >Landowners are as a rule completely worthless That's funny seems to me that without them we would have a LOT of homeless people. They have an asset and allow others to use it for a fee.... banks do the same thing, they have liquid capital they offer to others for a fee... would you say that banks as a rule are completely worthless? If we are talking about a fantasy utopia where 250-300 families who don't know each other are all going to gather together and put funds together to build an apartment complex in a major city and run it like a co-op then continue to live in fantasy land because that rarely if ever is the case.
      - Loughla 7y ago
        >would you say that banks as a rule are completely worthless? OP didn't talk about banks, and I'm not sure the comparison is even valid. As for your second paragraph. This is a possibility. Why don't we do this? That seems like a good business opportunity. Someone to organize the coop, provide startup investment, and receive a fee for x# of years afterward. Like a mortgage, but for coops, requiring coop rules and regulations for everyone involved. That seems interesting.
        eppsilon 7y ago
        Sounds a lot like a condo?
- nabakin 7y ago
  It's not like owning land is free... There are mortages to pay, maintenance costs, costs to having an empty apartment sit there between renters, a cost to find renters, upgrade costs, furnishing costs if you do that, taxes, security, management, regulations, savings for a crisis (if you're a responsible landlord), etc etc. Sure landlords can make a lot of money but it's not like they're some fountain of money that won't go bust after months of no rent. Not to mention most landlords have a job anyway.
  - nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
    The capitalists' justification for collecting the surplus value from the renters is said to be the reward for risking their capital. If there is no risk, what purpose does the landlord serve? (beyond simple property management, which requires no ownership of capital)
    - monkeywork 7y ago
      does that hold true for car rentals as well?
cgriswald 7y ago
In my county, renters have to show hardship to skip their rent. Then they have 90 days to pay back any missed rent once the emergency has passed, which they can extend, 30 days at a time, up to 180 days total (including the first 90) if they can still show hardship. Additionally, you cannot be evicted for lack of payment during the emergency. After is less clear.
- monkeywork 7y ago
  That policy seems to align well with what my gut tells me was fair in my post.
- jlokier 7y ago
  In my country, the UK, it's not that good. Eviction proceedings require 3 months notice now. That's not as good as it sounds: It was already 2 months normally. Notice can still be given. If you miss rent on 1st April and then the grace period passes (which is not long), they can send you notice of eviction proceedings that will start in 3 months. So you can't be removed from your rented home for 3 months, but you can lose your right to continue renting there in 3 months, caused by events happening right now. I don't think they can evict due to lack of payment in the emergency. Which is just as well, because the notice period for non-payment eviction proceedings is quite short. However, landlords have the right to give no-reason eviction notices to most tenants anyway (I think it's mostly tenants who've been there for > 6 months). They don't need to give a reason, they just have to feel like it. The notice period for that is now 3 months instead of the former 2 months...
pasquinelli 7y ago
"Landlords are in a slightly different boat than say the restaurant down the street. The restaurant isn't forced to provide services to anyone if they aren't getting paid, most places right now have basically blocked evictions (which is a good thing) and forcing landlords to keep people in place regardless if they get paid or not." Restaurants make food, landlords don't do anything.
- xur17 7y ago
  > landlords don't do anything. They pay the mortgage on the property, arrange (or do themselves) upkeep on the property, collect money, etc. We can argue if that's really worth anything, but they don't do nothing.