5 ms·

> better supporting deployment Is there any "supported deployment" for docker? I had the impression that swarm has been sidelined, and docker-compose was disco

by e12e 7y ago

> better supporting deployment Is there any "supported deployment" for docker? I had the impression that swarm has been sidelined, and docker-compose was discouraged. Is there a path to deployment on kubernetes that uses only compose? (I have a hard time seeing how that'll work with ingress, and "compose" well with other kubernetes deployments?) We have some on-prem stuff that would work on single-node swarm - but I've felt that compose has been in a bit of limbo this past year or so... Is some kind of production style deployment comming back?

hannibalhorn 7y ago
"Compose on Kubernetes"[1] seems to be what they're advocating at the moment, and it's included in Docker Desktop. It's probably an OK first step for simpler deployments, though I suspect in order to do any troubleshooting, one would have to learn k8s anyway. 1. https://github.com/docker/compose-on-kubernetes https://github.com/docker/compose-on-kubernetes
- mfer 7y ago
  To debug an application running on linux one does not need to learn machine code or assembly. There are tools that make it all possible. Higher level abstractions can work and need to start somewhere. It really depends what tools are developed.
  - e12e 7y ago
    Have you tried moving from on-premise docker-compose to managed kubernetes in the cloud? If you've been diligent in striving for stateless containers that will help you - but pretty much everything thing else in your compose file is useless. Docker-compose gets you the "pod"-level in k8s, but doesn't really help with ingress/services etc. So no one can reach your app, certainly not via a load balancer that terminate ssl for you. This is no longer a game of "beating the nginx container until it gives up and does what you need it to".
    - mfer 7y ago
      That's assuming the existing tools (implementation). Having a spec means you can build more and new tools that do different things. I would expect docker-compose to improve or something else that implements the spec can come along and do what people need. Or, more than one thing can come along.
      - e12e 7y ago
        Oh, I didn't read your comment with a view to the future - I certainly hope a spec and further development of the ecosystem can help improve the deployment story - which would help keep the development story relevant.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
ensignavenger 7y ago
It was announced a ~month ago that Mirantis (Aquirer of Swam and Docker Enterprise) will continue to develop Swarm with no implied death date. https://www.mirantis.com/blog/mirantis-will-continue-to-support-and-develop-docker-swarm/ https://www.mirantis.com/blog/mirantis-will-continue-to-supp... It is also an open source project, so even if the corporate overlords abandon it, the code could live on!
- GordonS 7y ago
  I certainly hope so - Swarm is a wonderful orchestration system for small deployments (at least, I haven't tried to use it for large ones), and is really easy to use. It's also vastly simpler to comprehend and operate that Kubernetes, and doesn't eat CPU & memory for breakfast. I'd wager that Swarm would be a better fit than Kubernetes for most systems.
  - jswny 7y ago
    Totally agree. I tested out both Kubernetes and Swarm for a recent project. Swarm was so vastly easier to not only understand at an architectural level, but to actually use, that I was delighted by using it. Kubernetes, on the other hand, was a real pain, and overly-complicated for 90% of projects I would say. It was even very difficult to setup a test cluster on my MacBook Pro to try out multi-node support (you have to find a good distribution, something that supports Mac for multi-node, etc.). Whereas for Swarm, it was super easy.
  - rumanator 7y ago
    > I certainly hope so - Swarm is a wonderful orchestration system for small deployments (at least, I haven't tried to use it for large ones), and is really easy to use. I would argue that Docker Swarm is a wonderful orchestration system for all practical real-world applications, with the notable exception of really global and gigantic multi-region deployments. Docker Swarm works superbly out of the box and it's trivial to setup a multi-node heterogeneous cluster of COTS hardware and/or VM instances.
    - 7y ago
justincormack 7y ago
Docker is not in the "supported deployment" business any more. We sold Docker Enterprise to Mirantis, to focus on developer tooling. The aim of open sourcing Compose spec is to help make it easier for people to make better deployment tooling, and to clean up the parts of the spec that were specific to the methods we had before to make it more general. There are quite a few ways now, and we will be helping make them better. These include Kompose (the maintainer, Hang Yan, is involved with Compose spec now) which converts to Kube Yaml, some work on Compose-Helm integrations that is ongoing, Amazon ECS has Compose support, compose-on-kubernetes (we think this needs rewriting to use a CRD again, after having changed it to use API extensions), and some other projects which are being worked on that I have heard about.
- tbodt 7y ago
  What is Docker's business model these days?

by e12e 7y ago

hannibalhorn 7y ago

"Compose on Kubernetes"[1] seems to be what they're advocating at the moment, and it's included in Docker Desktop. It's probably an OK first step for simpler deployments, though I suspect in order to do any troubleshooting, one would have to learn k8s anyway. 1. https://github.com/docker/compose-on-kubernetes https://github.com/docker/compose-on-kubernetes

mfer 7y ago
To debug an application running on linux one does not need to learn machine code or assembly. There are tools that make it all possible. Higher level abstractions can work and need to start somewhere. It really depends what tools are developed.
- e12e 7y ago
  Have you tried moving from on-premise docker-compose to managed kubernetes in the cloud? If you've been diligent in striving for stateless containers that will help you - but pretty much everything thing else in your compose file is useless. Docker-compose gets you the "pod"-level in k8s, but doesn't really help with ingress/services etc. So no one can reach your app, certainly not via a load balancer that terminate ssl for you. This is no longer a game of "beating the nginx container until it gives up and does what you need it to".
  - mfer 7y ago
    That's assuming the existing tools (implementation). Having a spec means you can build more and new tools that do different things. I would expect docker-compose to improve or something else that implements the spec can come along and do what people need. Or, more than one thing can come along.
    - e12e 7y ago
      Oh, I didn't read your comment with a view to the future - I certainly hope a spec and further development of the ecosystem can help improve the deployment story - which would help keep the development story relevant.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

ensignavenger 7y ago

It was announced a ~month ago that Mirantis (Aquirer of Swam and Docker Enterprise) will continue to develop Swarm with no implied death date. https://www.mirantis.com/blog/mirantis-will-continue-to-support-and-develop-docker-swarm/ https://www.mirantis.com/blog/mirantis-will-continue-to-supp... It is also an open source project, so even if the corporate overlords abandon it, the code could live on!

GordonS 7y ago
I certainly hope so - Swarm is a wonderful orchestration system for small deployments (at least, I haven't tried to use it for large ones), and is really easy to use. It's also vastly simpler to comprehend and operate that Kubernetes, and doesn't eat CPU & memory for breakfast. I'd wager that Swarm would be a better fit than Kubernetes for most systems.
- jswny 7y ago
  Totally agree. I tested out both Kubernetes and Swarm for a recent project. Swarm was so vastly easier to not only understand at an architectural level, but to actually use, that I was delighted by using it. Kubernetes, on the other hand, was a real pain, and overly-complicated for 90% of projects I would say. It was even very difficult to setup a test cluster on my MacBook Pro to try out multi-node support (you have to find a good distribution, something that supports Mac for multi-node, etc.). Whereas for Swarm, it was super easy.
- rumanator 7y ago
  > I certainly hope so - Swarm is a wonderful orchestration system for small deployments (at least, I haven't tried to use it for large ones), and is really easy to use. I would argue that Docker Swarm is a wonderful orchestration system for all practical real-world applications, with the notable exception of really global and gigantic multi-region deployments. Docker Swarm works superbly out of the box and it's trivial to setup a multi-node heterogeneous cluster of COTS hardware and/or VM instances.
  - 7y ago

justincormack 7y ago

Docker is not in the "supported deployment" business any more. We sold Docker Enterprise to Mirantis, to focus on developer tooling. The aim of open sourcing Compose spec is to help make it easier for people to make better deployment tooling, and to clean up the parts of the spec that were specific to the methods we had before to make it more general. There are quite a few ways now, and we will be helping make them better. These include Kompose (the maintainer, Hang Yan, is involved with Compose spec now) which converts to Kube Yaml, some work on Compose-Helm integrations that is ongoing, Amazon ECS has Compose support, compose-on-kubernetes (we think this needs rewriting to use a CRD again, after having changed it to use API extensions), and some other projects which are being worked on that I have heard about.

tbodt 7y ago
What is Docker's business model these days?