6 ms·

Something I've noticed is that universities in the US no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the "college experience".

Something I've noticed is that universities in the US no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the "college experience". Brochures are rife with amenities and activities like you're picking out a resort or extended summer camp where you can safely figure out who you are, make friends, and be protected until you're set free, job-pass in hand. These advertisements are also primarily aimed at the parents. My SO got a second degree several years ago, and all of her official and financial paperwork was addressed to "the parents of $SO". It was a bit shocking that there's so little expectation by universities for a legal adult to take agency in the process. I only wonder how much of this process was a result of student demands for more parental oversight and involvement, and if the end result is better outcomes or merely justification of more money spent.

non-entity 7y ago
> My SO got a second degree several years ago, and all of her official and financial paperwork was addressed to "the parents of $SO". Are there no legal issues that could come up with this? Working with financial documents addressed to someone other than yourself? I briefly touched on this elsewhere in this thread, but as a working professional who happens to still be very young and wanting to get my degree, universities are pissing me off. They create their own definitions of residency and independence that differ from the legal versions that seem to have no purpose but to extract more money from a potential student.
save_ferris 7y ago
> no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the “college experience.” This was already really noticeable when I enrolled in undergrad 12 years ago at a large public university. I think part of it has been driven by student demand for more parental oversight, but I also think the marketing is what got so many students to take out debt in the first place. So many of my undergrad classmates (perhaps even a slim majority) believed that undergrad was going to be the best 4 years of their lives and they had to make the most of them, which I personally found completely insane. I also think that the financial system around universities warped in such a way that it became easier to establish direct relationships with parents as university became less affordable to those trying to work while studying. Not to mention the absurd amount of money and effort that universities put into alumni communications to drive giving back to the school.
- aikinai 7y ago
  I think it is the best four years of life for many (maybe most?) Americans at least. But I think that speaks to exactly what people are saying in this thread. It's not about education anymore, it's evolved into a four-year time-of-your-life experience that through a fluke of history gets supported by guaranteed loans.
  - ludamad 7y ago
    Yes unfortunately. It is that time when everyone I know had free time and money. The lucky of us got good jobs, the others debt
  - jackpirate 7y ago
    I think it is the best four years of life for many (maybe most?) Americans at least This cannot be true as most Americans do not go to college. Of those that do, most do not do it the "traditional" timeframe of 4 contiguous years after high school. For example, only 36% of 25-30 year olds have a college degree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...
    - caseysoftware 7y ago
      You're right, it's not true. It's just great marketing through university's marketing departments, the media, etc.
    - russell_h 7y ago
      That statistic only reflects students who graduated and doesn't support your claim that "most Americans do not go to college". It appears that claim is wrong: "In October 2018, 69% of 16- to 24-year-olds who graduated high school in 2018 were enrolled, with 9 out of 10 reporting they were full-time students – a marginal increase over 2017 high school graduates, 67% of whom were enrolled in college or university. Over the last decade, that figure has fluctuated between 66% and 70%." https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-04-25/college-enrollment-stays-flat-at-69-continuing-a-decade-long-trend https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-04-... It is probably worth recognizing that for students who go to college for the experience there is little incentive to graduate.
mschuster91 7y ago
> I only wonder how much of this process was a result of student demands for more parental oversight and involvement Rather, parental demands like "we're paying for this, we want to know what's going on"... And to be fair that position makes sense when parents put up hundreds of thousands of dollars.
prpl 7y ago
I specifically remember talk about the college experience in brochures in 2001-2003. It may not have been the focal point, but I remember MIT specifically focusing on their specific flavor of it (particularly the dorm experience), as well as brochures from private liberal arts colleges.
duxup 7y ago
>but as providing the "college experience". Schools maybe didn't say it as blatantly, but I think that's been a/the selling point since ... you had schools you went away to. I'm not convinced a huge % of students value outcomes until ... it is time to face them. If they did I think I'd see a lot different choices by students. That's not recrimination as much as a recognition about how folks make these kinds of decisions / choices.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  I get the impression that universities were originally supposed to be a four-year vacation for the children of aristocrats. They spent their formative years locked away with other wealthy children, forming political connections, while learning about culture and playing games. Then, somewhere along the line, sciences became more integral and universities became a platform for wealthy people to gain experience and prestige in these new fields.
nradov 7y ago
The "college experience" is essentially now a way of indoctrinating students into a shared set of upper-middle class values and behaviors. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's orthogonal to actual education.

non-entity 7y ago

> My SO got a second degree several years ago, and all of her official and financial paperwork was addressed to "the parents of $SO". Are there no legal issues that could come up with this? Working with financial documents addressed to someone other than yourself? I briefly touched on this elsewhere in this thread, but as a working professional who happens to still be very young and wanting to get my degree, universities are pissing me off. They create their own definitions of residency and independence that differ from the legal versions that seem to have no purpose but to extract more money from a potential student.

save_ferris 7y ago

> no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the “college experience.” This was already really noticeable when I enrolled in undergrad 12 years ago at a large public university. I think part of it has been driven by student demand for more parental oversight, but I also think the marketing is what got so many students to take out debt in the first place. So many of my undergrad classmates (perhaps even a slim majority) believed that undergrad was going to be the best 4 years of their lives and they had to make the most of them, which I personally found completely insane. I also think that the financial system around universities warped in such a way that it became easier to establish direct relationships with parents as university became less affordable to those trying to work while studying. Not to mention the absurd amount of money and effort that universities put into alumni communications to drive giving back to the school.

aikinai 7y ago
I think it is the best four years of life for many (maybe most?) Americans at least. But I think that speaks to exactly what people are saying in this thread. It's not about education anymore, it's evolved into a four-year time-of-your-life experience that through a fluke of history gets supported by guaranteed loans.
- ludamad 7y ago
  Yes unfortunately. It is that time when everyone I know had free time and money. The lucky of us got good jobs, the others debt
- jackpirate 7y ago
  I think it is the best four years of life for many (maybe most?) Americans at least This cannot be true as most Americans do not go to college. Of those that do, most do not do it the "traditional" timeframe of 4 contiguous years after high school. For example, only 36% of 25-30 year olds have a college degree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...
  - caseysoftware 7y ago
    You're right, it's not true. It's just great marketing through university's marketing departments, the media, etc.
  - russell_h 7y ago
    That statistic only reflects students who graduated and doesn't support your claim that "most Americans do not go to college". It appears that claim is wrong: "In October 2018, 69% of 16- to 24-year-olds who graduated high school in 2018 were enrolled, with 9 out of 10 reporting they were full-time students – a marginal increase over 2017 high school graduates, 67% of whom were enrolled in college or university. Over the last decade, that figure has fluctuated between 66% and 70%." https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-04-25/college-enrollment-stays-flat-at-69-continuing-a-decade-long-trend https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-04-... It is probably worth recognizing that for students who go to college for the experience there is little incentive to graduate.

mschuster91 7y ago

> I only wonder how much of this process was a result of student demands for more parental oversight and involvement Rather, parental demands like "we're paying for this, we want to know what's going on"... And to be fair that position makes sense when parents put up hundreds of thousands of dollars.

prpl 7y ago

I specifically remember talk about the college experience in brochures in 2001-2003. It may not have been the focal point, but I remember MIT specifically focusing on their specific flavor of it (particularly the dorm experience), as well as brochures from private liberal arts colleges.

duxup 7y ago

>but as providing the "college experience". Schools maybe didn't say it as blatantly, but I think that's been a/the selling point since ... you had schools you went away to. I'm not convinced a huge % of students value outcomes until ... it is time to face them. If they did I think I'd see a lot different choices by students. That's not recrimination as much as a recognition about how folks make these kinds of decisions / choices.

mywittyname 7y ago
I get the impression that universities were originally supposed to be a four-year vacation for the children of aristocrats. They spent their formative years locked away with other wealthy children, forming political connections, while learning about culture and playing games. Then, somewhere along the line, sciences became more integral and universities became a platform for wealthy people to gain experience and prestige in these new fields.

nradov 7y ago

The "college experience" is essentially now a way of indoctrinating students into a shared set of upper-middle class values and behaviors. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's orthogonal to actual education.