7 ms·

Pentagon Knew of Possible Coronavirus Threat for Years

jorblumesea 7y ago
Almost every expert in disease prevention and public health has been warning about this for years. Intelligence agencies, the military even knew about the dangers of the outbreak as it was happening. Most of the blame should lie solidly on Trump and how he runs the presidency. A really good breakdown of the complete mess the current administration is and their inability to accept the facts and respond appropriately. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/... Archive link: http://archive.is/3qCa4 http://archive.is/3qCa4
- twomoretime 7y ago
  You're delusional if you don't recognize that this was a mass failure throughout the width and breadth of US corporate and government administration. Practically no one at federal, state, or local levels took any initiative to prepare. Same across the medical industry. Same for manufacturing - not a single company thought to ramp up mask or ventilator production when we've been hearing about this since January. It's popular to hate on the president but needlessly political to place the blame solely on his shoulders. And at the risk of posting flaimbait, note that Trump made a very early move to close the border to Chinese travel, and was met with condemnation of sinophobia from high ranking Democrats (like Schumer) and media.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Daishiman 7y ago
    "The buck stops here", said someone. It is the president the one who sets the tone and priority for these issues, and having been wisely advised, he obviously sat around, downplayed the issue, and yes, his response was absolute sinophobia given that a couple dozen additional measures would have have to be shown to display competency in this. He is easily the most incompetent person that could lead this crisis.
    - btilly 7y ago
      "The buck stops here", said someone. That someone was Harry S. Truman, who succeeded Roosevelt during WW II. And was succeeded in turn by Eisenhower. I randomly picked up https://www.amazon.com/Where-Buck-Stops-Personal-Writings/dp/0446391751 https://www.amazon.com/Where-Buck-Stops-Personal-Writings/dp... in a used bookstore. I'm glad I did. It is Truman's take on every president up through Eisenhower. Truman was known for his blunt language, but even he asked that it not be published until after he and his wife died. I don't agree with him on many things. But his take on leadership is very enlightening.
    - twomoretime 7y ago
      >his response was absolute sinophobia given that a couple dozen additional measures would have have to be shown to display competency in this. You are blinded by your hatred. Half the country has become totally unable to evaluate anything the president does objectively. What proportion of world governments are xenophobic now for closing down borders? >It is the president the one who sets the tone and priority for these issues, and having been wisely advised, he obviously sat around, downplayed the issue And so did just about every other world government. Including your "model" "democratic socialist" European nations - hell, Sweden is still betting on herd immunity. Rational thinking ceases when anyone brings up Trump. I'd also caution anyone evaluating this crisis response to recognize the unprecedented smear by the media. How many "US commandeers masks" articles have been corrected over the last few days now? Look it up, I bet you didn't hear about the quiet corrections. This happens all the damn time. Trump is a shitty president but much of the hate he gets is pure partisan hysteria. Look at how quickly the tide turned against Chloroquine simply because he tweeted about it. Pure idiocy. There's an old saying that people deserve their rulers. Edit: and by the way, on the subject of rising claims of sinophobia: the CCP is not your friend. The world is paying now for their lies. All the little trickles of COVID symptomology that we are still just getting today should have been officially announced by China months ago while they were trying to cover up and downplay the virus to a much deeper degree than our president. There is a propaganda war waging right now across the internet with China attempting to set a narrative and by ignorantly screaming "sinophobia!" You are playing right into their narrative.
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    Lots of partisan voting in this thread but I thought this was well said. I'm more concerned about the systemic failures in this case.
  - James_Henry 7y ago
    This isn't true. You may only be hearing about the failures because that makes a better news story. 3M, for instance, increased production of masks in January because they knew demand would go up. There are surely countless others.
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    Several regulators added pandemic preparedness to business continuity planning requirements following H1N1. In recent years most of those requirements have been significantly relaxed if not removed entirely. To give you a quick idea of how drastically things have changed in a very short time you can look at the Business Continuity Planning Handbook the FFIEC[1] publishes as a compliance guide. The prior version[2] used the word "pandemic" 139 times while the current version[3] mentions it only 18 times. Considering financial institution compliance is hardly known for speedy updates that is an absolutely monumental shift in guidance in less than four years. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Institutions_Examination_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Institutions... [2] https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/391101/ffiec-itbooklet-businesscontinuityplanning-2015.pdf https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/391101/ffiec-itbooklet-bu... [3] https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/296178/ffiec_itbooklet_businesscontinuitymanagement.pdf https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/296178/ffiec_itbooklet_bu...
- coding123 7y ago
  It really does. I don't often attribute major changes in the economy to a sitting president. But after dismantling and shunning half of the security apparatus, and not listening to advisors, this is what we get. He single handedly dismantled the CDC when he became president [0]. He routinely doesn't listen to his national security advisors [1]. If we just had started social distancing 2 weeks before, we would be in an entirely different situation. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/24/trump-cuts-undermine-coronavirus-containment-cdc-watchdog-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/24/trump-cuts-u... [1] https://newrepublic.com/article/147366/anti-intelligence https://newrepublic.com/article/147366/anti-intelligence
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    I already began social distancing more than a month before the guidelines were released, and I didn't need to wait for the government to tell me to do it. My lungs seem to be working fine as of now.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomschlick 7y ago
    > He single handedly dismantled the CDC when he became president. From what I can tell, that was a 2021 budget proposal (done before this all started) that hasn't been approved or taken effect. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/ Based on this chart (and the article you posted) he has proposed cuts to their non-infection disease related programs but congress has kept the funding intact. https://envirodatagov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Screen-Shot-2020-03-21-at-3.30.30-PM-768x784.png https://envirodatagov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Screen-...
    - decebalus1 7y ago
      I think people are confusing the CDC with the Pandemic Response Team: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
- James_Henry 7y ago
  I don't know if most of the blame should lie solidly on Trump, but I think that we shouldn't focus on him so much that we lose sight of others that helped cause this mess including - The Chinese Communist Party - The FDA and the CDC
  - Daishiman 7y ago
    That's a nice whataboutism.
  - lkbm 7y ago
    It's definitely not entirely Trump, but I notice that two of the three entities you listed are staffed and run by the Trump administration. People also talk about the US pandemic prevention team being disbanded a few years ago. What I haven't heard anyone talk about is how much work they did in other countries. I'd assume some of that involved monitoring for disease outbreaks across the world, but they probably were more essential in poor and less developed nations. China, I suspect, insists on taking care of their own stuff for the most part and doesn't want the US in there monitoring disease outbreaks, similar to how the US doesn't want China operating in our country. I'd be interested in actual information about this, though.
    - James_Henry 7y ago
      Two of three is meaningless without a good measure and a complete list. I could have added the WHO or others. Also, it's not just about staffing. Also, I'm not saying anything about the US monitoring Chinese disease outbreaks. The failings of the CCP were in fostering a system that punished and hid early warnings of a novel coronavirus. I'm also not saying that other institutions don't have similar issues.
    - megous 7y ago
      Chinese timeline: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5EXjFKE7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5EXjFKE7U The guy may be a bit biased towards China, but all of that should be verifiable information, so if there's bias it will come through via omissions, or cherry-picking, or playing up insignificant events.
- throwaway202003 7y ago
  I am an independent voter not registered with either party, but the constant, years-long attempts to take perhaps truly flawed policy, but exaggerate its awfulness beyond all reason, is disturbing. I suspect it's having the opposite of the intended effect with the voters. People aren't so easy to fool, and when they think you're trying really hard to fool them they do the opposite of what you're trying to get them to do. Even more disturbing is that whenever I read a post like this, I get the feeling that it made someone really happy, and they wrote it with a smile on their face. I am concerned that the people who hate Trump so much might be willing to do almost anything to prevent him from being elected again. For example, I wonder if the resistance to trying hydroxychloroquine is at least in part because some people secretly wish for the virus to continue killing people so they can blame Trump for it. I wonder if, back when he wanted to close the borders due to the virus, someone who secretly dislikes him but is in his circle of advisors, strongly urged him to keep the borders open so he could be blamed for it later. Okay, so that last paragraph sounds a little paranoid. But after years of people just taking absolutely anything and trying to find something to attack him with, after the streets filled with people screaming "not my president", after the lies willing to be told about Brett Kavanaugh, I really can't put much past the zealously anti-Trump people, who I distinguish from ordinary people who happened to vote for someone else.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    > For example, I wonder if the resistance to trying hydroxychloroquine is at least in part because some people secretly wish for the virus to continue killing people so they can blame Trump for it. Indeed, the media response to the trump administration is almost certainly going to secure his re-election. EDIT; downvoters are delusional. Independent of your thoughts on the man, it is clear that the American people don't trust the media and trust him instead. The massive media and democrat efforts to slander him have mostly slid off.
  - trophycase 7y ago
    "People aren't so easy to fool" Yes they are lol. "I wonder if the resistance to trying hydroxychloroquine is at least in part because some people secretly wish for the virus to continue killing people so they can blame Trump for it" Case in point right here. What a ridiculous claim. Your mind is already made up so you'll believe what you want. That's just the reality of post-truth. Not what is being said but who is saying it and in what narrative of power dynamics are they saying it. These "I'm independent but..." comments are absurd. I'm not sure what apologizing for one of the worst presidents of all time gets you, and he certainly doesn't need your sympathy and defense. He's the most powerful person in the world, so just remember the power dynamics at play here.
- briandear 7y ago
  > Most of the blame should lie solidly on Trump and how he runs the presidency. Most of the blame should lie with the Chinese and the WHO. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavirus-china/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavir...
  - airstrike 7y ago
    Yikes... thanks for the link
- foobarian 7y ago
  Counterpoints/thoughts: * In the end the US has responded, to the tune of losing half the GDP and tanking the stock market. This is true skin in the game and shows that the (true or hypothetical) oligarchs have been overridden. * The POTUS is not a dictator and was never intended to have very much power. The fact that states and their governors have taken point illustrates this is working as designed. * Of course this has been known for years, and people have been warning about it. But, SARS and H1N1 came and went without any serious consequences so I don't blame the system too much for not taking this epidemic more seriously.
  - foogazi 7y ago
    > so I don't blame the system too much for not taking this epidemic more seriously There are people whose only job is precisely to take these things seriously The CDC, FEMA exist for this very reason - to prevent and lessen the damage of diseases or natural disasters The US pays for these organizations to exist for loments like these
  - jorblumesea 7y ago
    > This is true skin in the game and shows that the (true or hypothetical) oligarchs have been overridden. Agreed, but who is losing their job? Not Barry Diller. As always, the average person suffers while the rich take a haircut. > The POTUS is not a dictator and was never intended to have very much power. The fact that states and their governors have taken point illustrates this is working as designed. You're confusing the federalist system with "dictator". It is literally the job of the federal government to coordinate on national issues. You don't ask Maryland to build tanks just to defend Maryland, do you? Why is a national pandemic just a states problem with piecemeal solutions? Why is every state bidding for resources individually? Why is every state pretty much on their own here? > so I don't blame the system too much for not taking this epidemic more seriously. This isn't the issue. There were many "in the system" that took this very seriously. There are entire parts of the government dedicated to this exact problem. The issue is that the people in charge, the current administration, outright ignored and played down medical facts due to ignorance, incompetence and politics.
- SilasX 7y ago
  Don’t know why downvoted. This is true. The only special knowledge the Pentagon might have had is that “oh, specifically the corona type of viruses is particularly nasty because of the long symptom free incubation time”[1]. But people like Bill Gates, in addition to those disease prevention orgs, were shouting about pandemic risk from the rooftops. Could they have done more to encourage a robust countermeasure strategy? Sure. But so could tons of other orgs and they’re not special or particularly evil in this respect. [1] I probably have the terminology wrong there and welcome corrections, but I think I have the substance right.
olivermarks 7y ago
The parent article https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-military-shortage-pandemic/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-military-sh... Not a Trump fan but this is very biased against the current administration. TLDR The pentagon warned the administration about coronavirus threats in 2017 but civilian politicians didn't ramp up supplies in case the threat was realized.
eiji 7y ago
Hm ... Should we spend these 2 billion here on a multi-faceted pandemic response plan, or buy another air-craft-carrier? Let's do the carrier!
- xxpor 7y ago
  If only an aircraft carrier only cost 2 billion....
- oblongx 7y ago
  don't you mean trillion?
- trimbo 7y ago
  I see your 2 billion for a carrier and raise you $1 trillion for the F35 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike-fighter-program.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike...
oski 7y ago
Not surprising at all.
iamwil 7y ago
Maybe it should have read, "No one would heed a Pentagon report for years"
talolard 7y ago
Imagine making headline news when you do your job
mataug 7y ago
Bill Gates also knew about this threat for years, and so did the audience who watched that talk https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re... Just saying, there is plenty of blame to go around for all of us, once this pandemic crisis is resolved.
- foogazi 7y ago
  Yeah, though at some point you have to ask the question: “Where does the buck stop?” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_passing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_passing
- mav3rick 7y ago
  Lol Bill Gates is not an elected official. He has arguably more than enough for a private individual.
nickysielicki 7y ago
I’m so sick of articles about unpreparedness. It’s real rich coming from the same exact media rooms that tried to make me and others feel like idiots when we saw what was going on in Hubei in January — ”it’s no big deal”. Now all of a sudden it’s supposed to have been obvious for years? Just stop with this bullshit, please.
- pyronite 7y ago
  The media is not the Pentagon and it's clear that both the Pentagon (per this report) and epidemiologists have been aware of this possibility for years. I do not understand exactly what you're suggesting here. Is this unworthy of reporting? The implication you're making is that no such articles should come out reporting on this material, since you believe the media made mistakes. Or maybe you're just venting – understandable, but it gives the appearance that you don't believe the article.
  - DougN7 7y ago
    The problem, in my opinion, is they know about hundreds or thousands of scenarios that could possibly happen. It’s not possible or prudent to prepare for every one of them. Only hindsight is 20/20.
- decebalus1 7y ago
  > from the same exact media rooms can you point me to an article from NPR which was downplaying the outbreak?
  - aaomidi 7y ago
    And why does it matter? They're a reporting and news agency. They're not in the business of strategically planning for an outbreak. They were merely reporting the sentiment of the leaders of this country in the earlier days.
  - daxorid 7y ago
    Here you go: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/01/29/800813299/worried-about-catching-the-new-coronavirus-in-the-u-s-flu-is-a-bigger-threat https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/01/29/8008132...
malandrew 7y ago
Why was this flagged? It's surprising to see something from NPR get flagged. I didn't see anything uncontroversial in the content.
- tansey 7y ago
  It's political news: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
  - dvtrn 7y ago
    I wish this ‘guideline’ or any guideline would attempt to even define what the moderation team considers to be ‘political’ because it seems like the community itself cannot agree on a universal-enough term that would apply to the types of discussions where politics and technology may intersect.
- airstrike 7y ago
  I think the issue is not with the content, but with the comments. This entire thread is a hot mess
harunurhan 7y ago
It wasn't difficult to know, was it? Gates and some other were already alarming about this, even some documentaries were produced about this.
ai_ja_nai 7y ago
What kind of demented, clickbait article is this? Every epidemiologist of the world was aware a pandemy would have come. And, guess what? We WERE prepared. It's being managed, it hurts, yes, but it hasn't turned into a zombie apocalypse with millions of victims. - from Italy

Almost every expert in disease prevention and public health has been warning about this for years. Intelligence agencies, the military even knew about the dangers of the outbreak as it was happening. Most of the blame should lie solidly on Trump and how he runs the presidency. A really good breakdown of the complete mess the current administration is and their inability to accept the facts and respond appropriately. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/... Archive link: http://archive.is/3qCa4 http://archive.is/3qCa4

twomoretime 7y ago
You're delusional if you don't recognize that this was a mass failure throughout the width and breadth of US corporate and government administration. Practically no one at federal, state, or local levels took any initiative to prepare. Same across the medical industry. Same for manufacturing - not a single company thought to ramp up mask or ventilator production when we've been hearing about this since January. It's popular to hate on the president but needlessly political to place the blame solely on his shoulders. And at the risk of posting flaimbait, note that Trump made a very early move to close the border to Chinese travel, and was met with condemnation of sinophobia from high ranking Democrats (like Schumer) and media.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Daishiman 7y ago
  "The buck stops here", said someone. It is the president the one who sets the tone and priority for these issues, and having been wisely advised, he obviously sat around, downplayed the issue, and yes, his response was absolute sinophobia given that a couple dozen additional measures would have have to be shown to display competency in this. He is easily the most incompetent person that could lead this crisis.
  - btilly 7y ago
    "The buck stops here", said someone. That someone was Harry S. Truman, who succeeded Roosevelt during WW II. And was succeeded in turn by Eisenhower. I randomly picked up https://www.amazon.com/Where-Buck-Stops-Personal-Writings/dp/0446391751 https://www.amazon.com/Where-Buck-Stops-Personal-Writings/dp... in a used bookstore. I'm glad I did. It is Truman's take on every president up through Eisenhower. Truman was known for his blunt language, but even he asked that it not be published until after he and his wife died. I don't agree with him on many things. But his take on leadership is very enlightening.
  - twomoretime 7y ago
    >his response was absolute sinophobia given that a couple dozen additional measures would have have to be shown to display competency in this. You are blinded by your hatred. Half the country has become totally unable to evaluate anything the president does objectively. What proportion of world governments are xenophobic now for closing down borders? >It is the president the one who sets the tone and priority for these issues, and having been wisely advised, he obviously sat around, downplayed the issue And so did just about every other world government. Including your "model" "democratic socialist" European nations - hell, Sweden is still betting on herd immunity. Rational thinking ceases when anyone brings up Trump. I'd also caution anyone evaluating this crisis response to recognize the unprecedented smear by the media. How many "US commandeers masks" articles have been corrected over the last few days now? Look it up, I bet you didn't hear about the quiet corrections. This happens all the damn time. Trump is a shitty president but much of the hate he gets is pure partisan hysteria. Look at how quickly the tide turned against Chloroquine simply because he tweeted about it. Pure idiocy. There's an old saying that people deserve their rulers. Edit: and by the way, on the subject of rising claims of sinophobia: the CCP is not your friend. The world is paying now for their lies. All the little trickles of COVID symptomology that we are still just getting today should have been officially announced by China months ago while they were trying to cover up and downplay the virus to a much deeper degree than our president. There is a propaganda war waging right now across the internet with China attempting to set a narrative and by ignorantly screaming "sinophobia!" You are playing right into their narrative.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  Lots of partisan voting in this thread but I thought this was well said. I'm more concerned about the systemic failures in this case.
- James_Henry 7y ago
  This isn't true. You may only be hearing about the failures because that makes a better news story. 3M, for instance, increased production of masks in January because they knew demand would go up. There are surely countless others.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  Several regulators added pandemic preparedness to business continuity planning requirements following H1N1. In recent years most of those requirements have been significantly relaxed if not removed entirely. To give you a quick idea of how drastically things have changed in a very short time you can look at the Business Continuity Planning Handbook the FFIEC[1] publishes as a compliance guide. The prior version[2] used the word "pandemic" 139 times while the current version[3] mentions it only 18 times. Considering financial institution compliance is hardly known for speedy updates that is an absolutely monumental shift in guidance in less than four years. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Institutions_Examination_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Institutions... [2] https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/391101/ffiec-itbooklet-businesscontinuityplanning-2015.pdf https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/391101/ffiec-itbooklet-bu... [3] https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/296178/ffiec_itbooklet_businesscontinuitymanagement.pdf https://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/296178/ffiec_itbooklet_bu...
coding123 7y ago
It really does. I don't often attribute major changes in the economy to a sitting president. But after dismantling and shunning half of the security apparatus, and not listening to advisors, this is what we get. He single handedly dismantled the CDC when he became president [0]. He routinely doesn't listen to his national security advisors [1]. If we just had started social distancing 2 weeks before, we would be in an entirely different situation. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/24/trump-cuts-undermine-coronavirus-containment-cdc-watchdog-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/24/trump-cuts-u... [1] https://newrepublic.com/article/147366/anti-intelligence https://newrepublic.com/article/147366/anti-intelligence
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  I already began social distancing more than a month before the guidelines were released, and I didn't need to wait for the government to tell me to do it. My lungs seem to be working fine as of now.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tomschlick 7y ago
  > He single handedly dismantled the CDC when he became president. From what I can tell, that was a 2021 budget proposal (done before this all started) that hasn't been approved or taken effect. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/ Based on this chart (and the article you posted) he has proposed cuts to their non-infection disease related programs but congress has kept the funding intact. https://envirodatagov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Screen-Shot-2020-03-21-at-3.30.30-PM-768x784.png https://envirodatagov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Screen-...
  - decebalus1 7y ago
    I think people are confusing the CDC with the Pandemic Response Team: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
James_Henry 7y ago
I don't know if most of the blame should lie solidly on Trump, but I think that we shouldn't focus on him so much that we lose sight of others that helped cause this mess including - The Chinese Communist Party - The FDA and the CDC
- Daishiman 7y ago
  That's a nice whataboutism.
- lkbm 7y ago
  It's definitely not entirely Trump, but I notice that two of the three entities you listed are staffed and run by the Trump administration. People also talk about the US pandemic prevention team being disbanded a few years ago. What I haven't heard anyone talk about is how much work they did in other countries. I'd assume some of that involved monitoring for disease outbreaks across the world, but they probably were more essential in poor and less developed nations. China, I suspect, insists on taking care of their own stuff for the most part and doesn't want the US in there monitoring disease outbreaks, similar to how the US doesn't want China operating in our country. I'd be interested in actual information about this, though.
  - James_Henry 7y ago
    Two of three is meaningless without a good measure and a complete list. I could have added the WHO or others. Also, it's not just about staffing. Also, I'm not saying anything about the US monitoring Chinese disease outbreaks. The failings of the CCP were in fostering a system that punished and hid early warnings of a novel coronavirus. I'm also not saying that other institutions don't have similar issues.
  - megous 7y ago
    Chinese timeline: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5EXjFKE7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5EXjFKE7U The guy may be a bit biased towards China, but all of that should be verifiable information, so if there's bias it will come through via omissions, or cherry-picking, or playing up insignificant events.
throwaway202003 7y ago
I am an independent voter not registered with either party, but the constant, years-long attempts to take perhaps truly flawed policy, but exaggerate its awfulness beyond all reason, is disturbing. I suspect it's having the opposite of the intended effect with the voters. People aren't so easy to fool, and when they think you're trying really hard to fool them they do the opposite of what you're trying to get them to do. Even more disturbing is that whenever I read a post like this, I get the feeling that it made someone really happy, and they wrote it with a smile on their face. I am concerned that the people who hate Trump so much might be willing to do almost anything to prevent him from being elected again. For example, I wonder if the resistance to trying hydroxychloroquine is at least in part because some people secretly wish for the virus to continue killing people so they can blame Trump for it. I wonder if, back when he wanted to close the borders due to the virus, someone who secretly dislikes him but is in his circle of advisors, strongly urged him to keep the borders open so he could be blamed for it later. Okay, so that last paragraph sounds a little paranoid. But after years of people just taking absolutely anything and trying to find something to attack him with, after the streets filled with people screaming "not my president", after the lies willing to be told about Brett Kavanaugh, I really can't put much past the zealously anti-Trump people, who I distinguish from ordinary people who happened to vote for someone else.
- tathougies 7y ago
  > For example, I wonder if the resistance to trying hydroxychloroquine is at least in part because some people secretly wish for the virus to continue killing people so they can blame Trump for it. Indeed, the media response to the trump administration is almost certainly going to secure his re-election. EDIT; downvoters are delusional. Independent of your thoughts on the man, it is clear that the American people don't trust the media and trust him instead. The massive media and democrat efforts to slander him have mostly slid off.
- trophycase 7y ago
  "People aren't so easy to fool" Yes they are lol. "I wonder if the resistance to trying hydroxychloroquine is at least in part because some people secretly wish for the virus to continue killing people so they can blame Trump for it" Case in point right here. What a ridiculous claim. Your mind is already made up so you'll believe what you want. That's just the reality of post-truth. Not what is being said but who is saying it and in what narrative of power dynamics are they saying it. These "I'm independent but..." comments are absurd. I'm not sure what apologizing for one of the worst presidents of all time gets you, and he certainly doesn't need your sympathy and defense. He's the most powerful person in the world, so just remember the power dynamics at play here.
briandear 7y ago
> Most of the blame should lie solidly on Trump and how he runs the presidency. Most of the blame should lie with the Chinese and the WHO. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavirus-china/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavir...
- airstrike 7y ago
  Yikes... thanks for the link
foobarian 7y ago
Counterpoints/thoughts: * In the end the US has responded, to the tune of losing half the GDP and tanking the stock market. This is true skin in the game and shows that the (true or hypothetical) oligarchs have been overridden. * The POTUS is not a dictator and was never intended to have very much power. The fact that states and their governors have taken point illustrates this is working as designed. * Of course this has been known for years, and people have been warning about it. But, SARS and H1N1 came and went without any serious consequences so I don't blame the system too much for not taking this epidemic more seriously.
- foogazi 7y ago
  > so I don't blame the system too much for not taking this epidemic more seriously There are people whose only job is precisely to take these things seriously The CDC, FEMA exist for this very reason - to prevent and lessen the damage of diseases or natural disasters The US pays for these organizations to exist for loments like these
- jorblumesea 7y ago
  > This is true skin in the game and shows that the (true or hypothetical) oligarchs have been overridden. Agreed, but who is losing their job? Not Barry Diller. As always, the average person suffers while the rich take a haircut. > The POTUS is not a dictator and was never intended to have very much power. The fact that states and their governors have taken point illustrates this is working as designed. You're confusing the federalist system with "dictator". It is literally the job of the federal government to coordinate on national issues. You don't ask Maryland to build tanks just to defend Maryland, do you? Why is a national pandemic just a states problem with piecemeal solutions? Why is every state bidding for resources individually? Why is every state pretty much on their own here? > so I don't blame the system too much for not taking this epidemic more seriously. This isn't the issue. There were many "in the system" that took this very seriously. There are entire parts of the government dedicated to this exact problem. The issue is that the people in charge, the current administration, outright ignored and played down medical facts due to ignorance, incompetence and politics.
SilasX 7y ago
Don’t know why downvoted. This is true. The only special knowledge the Pentagon might have had is that “oh, specifically the corona type of viruses is particularly nasty because of the long symptom free incubation time”[1]. But people like Bill Gates, in addition to those disease prevention orgs, were shouting about pandemic risk from the rooftops. Could they have done more to encourage a robust countermeasure strategy? Sure. But so could tons of other orgs and they’re not special or particularly evil in this respect. [1] I probably have the terminology wrong there and welcome corrections, but I think I have the substance right.

olivermarks 7y ago

The parent article https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-military-shortage-pandemic/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-military-sh... Not a Trump fan but this is very biased against the current administration. TLDR The pentagon warned the administration about coronavirus threats in 2017 but civilian politicians didn't ramp up supplies in case the threat was realized.

eiji 7y ago

Hm ... Should we spend these 2 billion here on a multi-faceted pandemic response plan, or buy another air-craft-carrier? Let's do the carrier!

xxpor 7y ago
If only an aircraft carrier only cost 2 billion....
oblongx 7y ago
don't you mean trillion?
trimbo 7y ago
I see your 2 billion for a carrier and raise you $1 trillion for the F35 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike-fighter-program.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike...

oski 7y ago

Not surprising at all.

iamwil 7y ago

Maybe it should have read, "No one would heed a Pentagon report for years"

talolard 7y ago

Imagine making headline news when you do your job

mataug 7y ago

Bill Gates also knew about this threat for years, and so did the audience who watched that talk https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re... Just saying, there is plenty of blame to go around for all of us, once this pandemic crisis is resolved.

foogazi 7y ago
Yeah, though at some point you have to ask the question: “Where does the buck stop?” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_passing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_passing
mav3rick 7y ago
Lol Bill Gates is not an elected official. He has arguably more than enough for a private individual.

nickysielicki 7y ago

I’m so sick of articles about unpreparedness. It’s real rich coming from the same exact media rooms that tried to make me and others feel like idiots when we saw what was going on in Hubei in January — ”it’s no big deal”. Now all of a sudden it’s supposed to have been obvious for years? Just stop with this bullshit, please.

pyronite 7y ago
The media is not the Pentagon and it's clear that both the Pentagon (per this report) and epidemiologists have been aware of this possibility for years. I do not understand exactly what you're suggesting here. Is this unworthy of reporting? The implication you're making is that no such articles should come out reporting on this material, since you believe the media made mistakes. Or maybe you're just venting – understandable, but it gives the appearance that you don't believe the article.
- DougN7 7y ago
  The problem, in my opinion, is they know about hundreds or thousands of scenarios that could possibly happen. It’s not possible or prudent to prepare for every one of them. Only hindsight is 20/20.
decebalus1 7y ago
> from the same exact media rooms can you point me to an article from NPR which was downplaying the outbreak?
- aaomidi 7y ago
  And why does it matter? They're a reporting and news agency. They're not in the business of strategically planning for an outbreak. They were merely reporting the sentiment of the leaders of this country in the earlier days.
- daxorid 7y ago
  Here you go: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/01/29/800813299/worried-about-catching-the-new-coronavirus-in-the-u-s-flu-is-a-bigger-threat https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/01/29/8008132...

malandrew 7y ago

Why was this flagged? It's surprising to see something from NPR get flagged. I didn't see anything uncontroversial in the content.

tansey 7y ago
It's political news: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
- dvtrn 7y ago
  I wish this ‘guideline’ or any guideline would attempt to even define what the moderation team considers to be ‘political’ because it seems like the community itself cannot agree on a universal-enough term that would apply to the types of discussions where politics and technology may intersect.
airstrike 7y ago
I think the issue is not with the content, but with the comments. This entire thread is a hot mess

harunurhan 7y ago

It wasn't difficult to know, was it? Gates and some other were already alarming about this, even some documentaries were produced about this.

ai_ja_nai 7y ago

What kind of demented, clickbait article is this? Every epidemiologist of the world was aware a pandemy would have come. And, guess what? We WERE prepared. It's being managed, it hurts, yes, but it hasn't turned into a zombie apocalypse with millions of victims. - from Italy