5 ms·

> It seems that the actual problem might just be hospitals being stingy. Hospitals have to stay afloat just like everyone else. If they go bankrupt, they close

> It seems that the actual problem might just be hospitals being stingy. Hospitals have to stay afloat just like everyone else. If they go bankrupt, they close, just like everyone else. If the government agrees it's a national security matter for us to have our own PPE production pipeline, then it needs to stop in. It can't expect private facilities, that have to make their own budget targets, to take on the cost of keeping up national priorities. That's literally what the government is for.

fermienrico 7y ago
The Republican party's narrative is that the private market will "figure itself out". Furthermore, the party does not condone excessive government intervention. That's a double whammy.
- saber6 7y ago
  > Furthermore, the party does not condone excessive government intervention. This sentiment is dated and suspect. Reference: The stimulus/relief bill just passed. Remember the bottom line that everyone in power likes to be in power. Gotta keep the music going.
- mikemotherwell 7y ago
  So you think this policy was in place starting with Trump? Or was it with a Bush, but Obama chose NOT to repeal it? Or has it all started with Republican governors very recently? This partisanship seems crazy to me, especially given that the bureaucratic system seems plain broken. Not broken based on Republican or Democratic ideology, just plain broken. I'm not American, and it doesn't seem like in my country Australia these supply issues have been as bad, despite almost all of our supply coming from China.
  - presumably 7y ago
    Clinton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_National_Stockpile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_National_Stockpile Republican ideology is abhorrent; one doesn’t have to be part of the Democratic Party to recognize that. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/conservative-campaign-security/608986/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/conservati...
    - champagneben 7y ago
      From your Wikipedia link: "In 2005 and in preparation for a predictable pandemic influenza, the Bush administration called for the coordination of domestic production and stockpiling of protective personal equipments.[6] In 2006, the US Congress funded the integration of protective equipment to a Strategic National Stockpile: 52 million surgical masks and 104 million N95 air-filtration masks were acquired and added.[6] During the 2009 flu pandemic, 100 million masks were used, but neither the Obama administration nor the Trump administration renewed the strategic stocks."
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    They haven’t been good. Australian doctors are wearing homemade masks just like Americans. https://www.physiciansweekly.com/were-not-hungry-we/ https://www.physiciansweekly.com/were-not-hungry-we/
    - Melting_Harps 7y ago
      > They haven’t been good. Australian doctors are wearing homemade masks just like Americans. Wow, I had thought that due to political alliances and mutual dependence as well as proximity that Australia would be the first to get supplies from China. I guess this provides further credence that being politically cozy with CCP doesn't benefit you any more than a country who puts trade sanctions in place like the US. That was a really sobering read, but this highlights the chaos that is currently taking place best: > But staff in some stretched hospitals in NSW are facing tight restrictions on the use of higher specification N95 face masks and are relying on face shields made from plastic and rubber bands from hardware stores to stay safe. > “Some are even using scuba gear,” said Andrew Miller, President of the Western Australia state branch of the Australian Medical Association. > “We have doctors and nurses who have been disciplined for trying to wear a mask at work. It’s a situation full of conflict and confusion.” The CCP (and by extension the WHO) should have to answer for Crimes against Humanity for trying to cover up COVID19 outbreak which got medical workers killed, and dissapearing citizen journalists who were trying to expose the dire nature of all of this. I hope People now begin to realize (and support) why what Hong Kong is doing is imperative to not just their own interests, but in curtailing the expansion of this Authoritarian regime from being a dominant power in the World. For most people it's one thing to see it going on elsewhere and dismiss it as other People's problems, but a stark realization comes into focus when you see it's implications have affected not just your safety and livelihood but the whole World as its exhausting the foundations of daily Life. Its par for the course for the CCP, I highly recommend people watch a documentary on how the CCP has and will continue to censor media and jail those who fail to repeat their narrative that ultimately lead to the World being in disrepute, as all of this could have been avoided: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbd4EsbgMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbd4EsbgMM Also, if anyone works in the medical field and needs to get a source on masks, a yellow leaning Hong Kong factory (Yellow Factory) has begun making masks: https://tinyurl.com/uw4umrd https://tinyurl.com/uw4umrd https://www.facebook.com/yellowfactory2020/posts/123165915969164 https://www.facebook.com/yellowfactory2020/posts/12316591596...
- PeterStuer 7y ago
  That is not a 'Republican' narrative, but a neo-liberal narrative. In the US that is available in two colors, red and blue.
- Cyberdog 7y ago
  What Republican party are you looking at? The one that passed a law last week for $2 trillion in government intervention? The one that shut down my state for at least three weeks, causing me to lose my side job? Sadly, small-government types (of which I am one, if by "small" you include "no") no longer have much of a home in the Republicans.
- randallsquared 7y ago
  > the [Republican] party does not condone excessive government intervention. Well, that's the rhetoric, but it's only that for most. Power first, principles later.
taneq 7y ago
Hospitals aren't going to sink or swim depending on whether they can save 10-15c per face mask, and being the U.S. they probably charge the patient $10/mask regardless.
- prostheticvamp 7y ago
  Hospitals don’t generally buy line items. Tiny healthcare centers do. Hospitals get tied into group purchasing organizations (GPOs), which control the supply pipeline to hospitals in exchange for buying at scale. But that’s beside the point. Almost all disposable medical supplies are cheap in isolation. They build contracts for a whole bunch of supplies, in massive quantities, over time. Those pennies add up. Again, operating margins <2%. Until you’ve internalized what that means, I don’t see a high value in going back and forth.
  - cerberusss 7y ago
    Parent noted they're a a medical professional involved in procuring PPE for a small health chain. Above comment should not be voted down, IMHO.
Aeolun 7y ago
If they could pay $0.1 per mask before exporting the job to China for $0.02, then presumably they can do the same thing again and make marginally less profit.

fermienrico 7y ago

The Republican party's narrative is that the private market will "figure itself out". Furthermore, the party does not condone excessive government intervention. That's a double whammy.

saber6 7y ago
> Furthermore, the party does not condone excessive government intervention. This sentiment is dated and suspect. Reference: The stimulus/relief bill just passed. Remember the bottom line that everyone in power likes to be in power. Gotta keep the music going.
mikemotherwell 7y ago
So you think this policy was in place starting with Trump? Or was it with a Bush, but Obama chose NOT to repeal it? Or has it all started with Republican governors very recently? This partisanship seems crazy to me, especially given that the bureaucratic system seems plain broken. Not broken based on Republican or Democratic ideology, just plain broken. I'm not American, and it doesn't seem like in my country Australia these supply issues have been as bad, despite almost all of our supply coming from China.
- presumably 7y ago
  Clinton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_National_Stockpile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_National_Stockpile Republican ideology is abhorrent; one doesn’t have to be part of the Democratic Party to recognize that. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/conservative-campaign-security/608986/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/conservati...
  - champagneben 7y ago
    From your Wikipedia link: "In 2005 and in preparation for a predictable pandemic influenza, the Bush administration called for the coordination of domestic production and stockpiling of protective personal equipments.[6] In 2006, the US Congress funded the integration of protective equipment to a Strategic National Stockpile: 52 million surgical masks and 104 million N95 air-filtration masks were acquired and added.[6] During the 2009 flu pandemic, 100 million masks were used, but neither the Obama administration nor the Trump administration renewed the strategic stocks."
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  They haven’t been good. Australian doctors are wearing homemade masks just like Americans. https://www.physiciansweekly.com/were-not-hungry-we/ https://www.physiciansweekly.com/were-not-hungry-we/
  - Melting_Harps 7y ago
    > They haven’t been good. Australian doctors are wearing homemade masks just like Americans. Wow, I had thought that due to political alliances and mutual dependence as well as proximity that Australia would be the first to get supplies from China. I guess this provides further credence that being politically cozy with CCP doesn't benefit you any more than a country who puts trade sanctions in place like the US. That was a really sobering read, but this highlights the chaos that is currently taking place best: > But staff in some stretched hospitals in NSW are facing tight restrictions on the use of higher specification N95 face masks and are relying on face shields made from plastic and rubber bands from hardware stores to stay safe. > “Some are even using scuba gear,” said Andrew Miller, President of the Western Australia state branch of the Australian Medical Association. > “We have doctors and nurses who have been disciplined for trying to wear a mask at work. It’s a situation full of conflict and confusion.” The CCP (and by extension the WHO) should have to answer for Crimes against Humanity for trying to cover up COVID19 outbreak which got medical workers killed, and dissapearing citizen journalists who were trying to expose the dire nature of all of this. I hope People now begin to realize (and support) why what Hong Kong is doing is imperative to not just their own interests, but in curtailing the expansion of this Authoritarian regime from being a dominant power in the World. For most people it's one thing to see it going on elsewhere and dismiss it as other People's problems, but a stark realization comes into focus when you see it's implications have affected not just your safety and livelihood but the whole World as its exhausting the foundations of daily Life. Its par for the course for the CCP, I highly recommend people watch a documentary on how the CCP has and will continue to censor media and jail those who fail to repeat their narrative that ultimately lead to the World being in disrepute, as all of this could have been avoided: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbd4EsbgMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbd4EsbgMM Also, if anyone works in the medical field and needs to get a source on masks, a yellow leaning Hong Kong factory (Yellow Factory) has begun making masks: https://tinyurl.com/uw4umrd https://tinyurl.com/uw4umrd https://www.facebook.com/yellowfactory2020/posts/123165915969164 https://www.facebook.com/yellowfactory2020/posts/12316591596...
PeterStuer 7y ago
That is not a 'Republican' narrative, but a neo-liberal narrative. In the US that is available in two colors, red and blue.
Cyberdog 7y ago
What Republican party are you looking at? The one that passed a law last week for $2 trillion in government intervention? The one that shut down my state for at least three weeks, causing me to lose my side job? Sadly, small-government types (of which I am one, if by "small" you include "no") no longer have much of a home in the Republicans.
randallsquared 7y ago
> the [Republican] party does not condone excessive government intervention. Well, that's the rhetoric, but it's only that for most. Power first, principles later.

taneq 7y ago

Hospitals aren't going to sink or swim depending on whether they can save 10-15c per face mask, and being the U.S. they probably charge the patient $10/mask regardless.

prostheticvamp 7y ago
Hospitals don’t generally buy line items. Tiny healthcare centers do. Hospitals get tied into group purchasing organizations (GPOs), which control the supply pipeline to hospitals in exchange for buying at scale. But that’s beside the point. Almost all disposable medical supplies are cheap in isolation. They build contracts for a whole bunch of supplies, in massive quantities, over time. Those pennies add up. Again, operating margins <2%. Until you’ve internalized what that means, I don’t see a high value in going back and forth.
- cerberusss 7y ago
  Parent noted they're a a medical professional involved in procuring PPE for a small health chain. Above comment should not be voted down, IMHO.

Aeolun 7y ago

If they could pay $0.1 per mask before exporting the job to China for $0.02, then presumably they can do the same thing again and make marginally less profit.