4 ms·

Why is it so offensive to people in this industry that our skills are valued? Sometimes it seems a little crazy to me too, but I'm not, like, excited to need t

Why is it so offensive to people in this industry that our skills are valued? Sometimes it seems a little crazy to me too, but I'm not, like, excited to need to live with 5 roommates 90 minutes away from work again like you seem to be.

marcosdumay 7y ago
The GP is not complaining that our skills are valued, it's complaining that those companies have an awful low productivity. You know, people filling low productivity jobs means that our skills aren't valued enough.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sumedh 7y ago
  > it's complaining that those companies have an awful low productivity. That is just human nature, once the company starts going big and has the funds, the managers start empire building.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
rexreed 7y ago
You answered your own question. It's not that people don't think you're valued, it's that the value you are getting commensurate with pay levels is unsustainable in the region. When the tide goes down, the first boats to flounder are the ones on high ground. I hope we can also see an unwinding of the ridiculous cost of living that is part of the rationale behind unsustainable wage growth. These things go hand in hand.
- dhruvkar 7y ago
  >> I hope we can also see an unwinding of the ridiculous cost of living that is part of the rationale behind unsustainable wage growth. From your mouth to god's ear. The ridiculous cost of living is what made me reconsider the Bay Area (South Bay) after 5 years there. My wife and I are very financially conservative. We pay cash to own assets - car, house etc. That just wasn't possible out there. And I couldn't imagine shelling out >$1M (not that I have it) in cash to own a mediocre house that would be worth 5 times less almost anywhere else.
jaggederest 7y ago
Work remote, move to the midwest (or, really, anywhere outside of the bay area or NYC), own your house outright. The idea that the options are "get paid usurious amounts of money" or "live 90 minutes from work with a bunch of roommates" is a false dichotomy.
- closeparen 7y ago
  Interesting perspective. My employer entertains remote workers and satellite offices only to the extent that it feels the Bay Area is “tapped out.” If that thinking is at all representative of the industry, I think we’re likely to see those options evaporate rather than grow. There are definitely IT jobs “native” to the Midwest, but they’re overwhelmingly seen as cost centers to be deskilled/automated/offshored rather than value-creating R&D.
  - jaggederest 7y ago
    I mean, I've been doing it for the vast majority of the last decade, so my feeling is that it can only increase. The housing prices and the sheer stress of living in bay area / nyc are so overwhelming.
  - IggleSniggle 7y ago
    I've been working remote for only a short time, but it's been interesting to watch as my entire company (its a software company) now goes remote due to COVID-19. There's a lot of people that seem to be having lightbulb moments like, "oh wow, I'm just as much if not more productive than I was before" as well as some people that seem to be having a crisis and not know what to do with themselves. The people that don't know what to do with themselves seem to be correlated with the same people that I previously felt had a negative impact on our velocity. Any company that truly believes all the talent is on the coasts isn't the kind of small-minded company I would want to work for anyway, so it's kind of moot for me. But I think there will be a lot more understanding of what jobs work well in a remote setting due to quarantine, and plenty of software companies will realize they can save a ton of money by not retaining an expensive office space, while gathering talent from a wider pool of diverse perspectives.
- 7y ago
bdcravens 7y ago
I can't speak to your skillset or your job, but there are a lot of people working in our industry not because their skills are valued, but because investor dollars are often thrown at growing headcount.
krona 7y ago
In my experience the pareto principle is hard at work in VC funded startups that went for rapid headcount expansion.
- rexreed 7y ago
  Bingo. This is exactly what I meant. And when the industry / economy in contraction, the first jobs to go is the "excess fat" of those 80% non-productive that accounts for 80% of wages. The remaining 20% are the high value contributors, which honestly represents what the true employment should have been. VC economics are not the same as general market economics.
scollet 7y ago
I know it's not the crux of your argument but your lamentation is more about prohibitive housing, bordering on classism.
- closeparen 7y ago
  The lamentation that engineers are "paid too much" is about prohibitive housing. If you consider engineering compensation in terms of the lifestyle it buys rather than the nominal dollar values, it's a pretty normal college-educated middle class living.

marcosdumay 7y ago

The GP is not complaining that our skills are valued, it's complaining that those companies have an awful low productivity. You know, people filling low productivity jobs means that our skills aren't valued enough.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
sumedh 7y ago
> it's complaining that those companies have an awful low productivity. That is just human nature, once the company starts going big and has the funds, the managers start empire building.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

rexreed 7y ago

You answered your own question. It's not that people don't think you're valued, it's that the value you are getting commensurate with pay levels is unsustainable in the region. When the tide goes down, the first boats to flounder are the ones on high ground. I hope we can also see an unwinding of the ridiculous cost of living that is part of the rationale behind unsustainable wage growth. These things go hand in hand.

dhruvkar 7y ago
>> I hope we can also see an unwinding of the ridiculous cost of living that is part of the rationale behind unsustainable wage growth. From your mouth to god's ear. The ridiculous cost of living is what made me reconsider the Bay Area (South Bay) after 5 years there. My wife and I are very financially conservative. We pay cash to own assets - car, house etc. That just wasn't possible out there. And I couldn't imagine shelling out >$1M (not that I have it) in cash to own a mediocre house that would be worth 5 times less almost anywhere else.

jaggederest 7y ago

Work remote, move to the midwest (or, really, anywhere outside of the bay area or NYC), own your house outright. The idea that the options are "get paid usurious amounts of money" or "live 90 minutes from work with a bunch of roommates" is a false dichotomy.

closeparen 7y ago
Interesting perspective. My employer entertains remote workers and satellite offices only to the extent that it feels the Bay Area is “tapped out.” If that thinking is at all representative of the industry, I think we’re likely to see those options evaporate rather than grow. There are definitely IT jobs “native” to the Midwest, but they’re overwhelmingly seen as cost centers to be deskilled/automated/offshored rather than value-creating R&D.
- jaggederest 7y ago
  I mean, I've been doing it for the vast majority of the last decade, so my feeling is that it can only increase. The housing prices and the sheer stress of living in bay area / nyc are so overwhelming.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  I've been working remote for only a short time, but it's been interesting to watch as my entire company (its a software company) now goes remote due to COVID-19. There's a lot of people that seem to be having lightbulb moments like, "oh wow, I'm just as much if not more productive than I was before" as well as some people that seem to be having a crisis and not know what to do with themselves. The people that don't know what to do with themselves seem to be correlated with the same people that I previously felt had a negative impact on our velocity. Any company that truly believes all the talent is on the coasts isn't the kind of small-minded company I would want to work for anyway, so it's kind of moot for me. But I think there will be a lot more understanding of what jobs work well in a remote setting due to quarantine, and plenty of software companies will realize they can save a ton of money by not retaining an expensive office space, while gathering talent from a wider pool of diverse perspectives.
7y ago

bdcravens 7y ago

I can't speak to your skillset or your job, but there are a lot of people working in our industry not because their skills are valued, but because investor dollars are often thrown at growing headcount.

krona 7y ago

In my experience the pareto principle is hard at work in VC funded startups that went for rapid headcount expansion.

rexreed 7y ago
Bingo. This is exactly what I meant. And when the industry / economy in contraction, the first jobs to go is the "excess fat" of those 80% non-productive that accounts for 80% of wages. The remaining 20% are the high value contributors, which honestly represents what the true employment should have been. VC economics are not the same as general market economics.

scollet 7y ago

I know it's not the crux of your argument but your lamentation is more about prohibitive housing, bordering on classism.

closeparen 7y ago
The lamentation that engineers are "paid too much" is about prohibitive housing. If you consider engineering compensation in terms of the lifestyle it buys rather than the nominal dollar values, it's a pretty normal college-educated middle class living.