5 ms·

and yet according to the USDA, "11.1 percent of households were food insecure at least some time during the year, including 4.3 percent (5.6 million households)

and yet according to the USDA, "11.1 percent of households were food insecure at least some time during the year, including 4.3 percent (5.6 million households) that had very low food security".

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
So where’s the disconnect here? SNAP is widely available, so we need to investigate the gap.
- jsjddbbwj 7y ago
  The gap are people who are given food stamps and they use them to buy soda or to exchange them for other goods.
- soperj 7y ago
  57 billion into 40 million people = $1425. That's without any overhead. Say there was no overhead, that's $3.90 a day.
  - AlgorithmicTime 7y ago
    Which is actually more per person/day than me and my wife spend on ourselves... and we eat perfectly well!
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    SNAP is $200 per month per person for low income, at least it was when I was on it.
oorza 7y ago
Giving people money won't solve this problem. The food desert phenomenon is very real and very unsolved.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Hot take: You need a food equivalent of Medicare, where you can walk into the equivalent of a public good supermarket (Aldi would be my example, perhaps adjacent to a library and community center, with a "dine in" meal area), and walk out only with healthy foods or a healthy meal. Regarding food deserts, you need to force the distribution chain where it isn't, even if it isn't profitable (we don't look at the profitability of school lunches, soup kitchens, or food banks, for example). Citizens also need help understanding nutrition and health diets (existing efforts are woefully inadequate), and direct cash benefits (SNAP) are suboptimal for that, considering food industry marketing efforts (looking at you Coca Cola).
  - thanatropism 7y ago
    The purpose of Coca-Cola is to sell fizzy sugar drinks. Why would it be to blame for food deserts or people not managing their purse strings? I mean, if you want to ban Coca-Cola (like many want to ban marijuana), that's sort of a valid belief?
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      One cannot ban soda (or other unhealthy foods), see what happened with the uproar over choice over a minor tax on soda in NYC. You can not provide it at your establishment though. That's what I'm advocating for; free food (basics or prepared), but only healthy food. Making something difficult to obtain is somewhat equivalent to banning it, without the fight. "Choice" is what got us into the problem of so many having "Western" disease [1] (overweight, pre-diabetes do to diet choices). Small nudges [2] in the right direction. If I'm providing free meals for those who need it, I'm going to provide water (cheap, healthy, and readily available in the developed world) with it, not a can of Coke. [1] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and... [2] https://smile.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Happiness-ebook/dp/B00A5DCALY https://smile.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Ha...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jefftk 7y ago
"food insecure" may be a relatively low bar: it looks like it includes "reports of reduced quality, variety, or desirability of diet. Little or no indication of reduced food intake." https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security/ https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...
- dickjocke 7y ago
  I don't think that's a low bar. The US is an advanced economy. Why would people being unable to get fresh produce or have a balanced and varied diet be acceptable? Especially when you consider the obesity problems the country is facing. I think that food insecurity meaning literal hunger pains is way too low a bar for the US. That number should be literally 0%. Food security for us should mean food that is healthy and excellent.
  - jefftk 7y ago
    "food insecure at least some time during the year" includes people who at some point during the year didn't like the food they had available ("reduced desirability"). For example, someone could be getting their food from Meal Hubs and still be counted as food insecure. If you surveyed specifically on whether people had access to fresh produce you'd get a much lower number.
    - dickjocke 7y ago
      I personally don't think that ~10% of people who are in the low food security box are doing great. They still seemed to do horribly in some of the metrics they gathered. For example, 80% of them felt they could not afford a balanced meal. Then if you look at the very low security group, roughly 4% or 5 million people, it gets really worrisome. 32% of households said an adult had gone an entire day without eating anything. And I think this is compounded by something like Covid-19. 85% and 95% of the low and very low food security groups said they were worried food would run out. What happens to them when people make a run on the stores like this last month? Their ability to buy food is strongly tethered to the day of the month when their EBT card is reloaded. I think a lot of this is subjective, and globally the US is doing quite well compared to all countries. But I suspect we do poorly compared to other industrialized/advanced economies.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
The USDA definitions are extraordinarily misleading. “Food insecure” includes people who are at no risk of going hungry, but wish they had better food or a larger variety of food.
- vb6sp6 7y ago
  You'd be feeling pretty insecure if your only options for food was the boxed garbage from a gas station.
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    Whose only option is that?
    - vb6sp6 7y ago
      23+ million Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
      - oh_sigh 7y ago
        That's not what that article says
        vb6sp6 7y ago
        You have to read past the first sentence "A food desert is an area that has limited access to affordable and nutritious food,[1][2][3] in contrast with an area with higher access to supermarkets or vegetable shops with fresh foods, which is called a food oasis.[4] The designation considers the type and quality of food available to the population, in addition to the accessibility of the food through the size and proximity of the food stores.[5] In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that 23.5 million Americans live in "food deserts"
        oh_sigh 7y ago

and yet according to the USDA, "11.1 percent of households were food insecure at least some time during the year, including 4.3 percent (5.6 million households) that had very low food security".

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

So where’s the disconnect here? SNAP is widely available, so we need to investigate the gap.

jsjddbbwj 7y ago
The gap are people who are given food stamps and they use them to buy soda or to exchange them for other goods.
soperj 7y ago
57 billion into 40 million people = $1425. That's without any overhead. Say there was no overhead, that's $3.90 a day.
- AlgorithmicTime 7y ago
  Which is actually more per person/day than me and my wife spend on ourselves... and we eat perfectly well!
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  SNAP is $200 per month per person for low income, at least it was when I was on it.

oorza 7y ago

Giving people money won't solve this problem. The food desert phenomenon is very real and very unsolved.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Hot take: You need a food equivalent of Medicare, where you can walk into the equivalent of a public good supermarket (Aldi would be my example, perhaps adjacent to a library and community center, with a "dine in" meal area), and walk out only with healthy foods or a healthy meal. Regarding food deserts, you need to force the distribution chain where it isn't, even if it isn't profitable (we don't look at the profitability of school lunches, soup kitchens, or food banks, for example). Citizens also need help understanding nutrition and health diets (existing efforts are woefully inadequate), and direct cash benefits (SNAP) are suboptimal for that, considering food industry marketing efforts (looking at you Coca Cola).
- thanatropism 7y ago
  The purpose of Coca-Cola is to sell fizzy sugar drinks. Why would it be to blame for food deserts or people not managing their purse strings? I mean, if you want to ban Coca-Cola (like many want to ban marijuana), that's sort of a valid belief?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    One cannot ban soda (or other unhealthy foods), see what happened with the uproar over choice over a minor tax on soda in NYC. You can not provide it at your establishment though. That's what I'm advocating for; free food (basics or prepared), but only healthy food. Making something difficult to obtain is somewhat equivalent to banning it, without the fight. "Choice" is what got us into the problem of so many having "Western" disease [1] (overweight, pre-diabetes do to diet choices). Small nudges [2] in the right direction. If I'm providing free meals for those who need it, I'm going to provide water (cheap, healthy, and readily available in the developed world) with it, not a can of Coke. [1] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and... [2] https://smile.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Happiness-ebook/dp/B00A5DCALY https://smile.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Ha...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jefftk 7y ago

"food insecure" may be a relatively low bar: it looks like it includes "reports of reduced quality, variety, or desirability of diet. Little or no indication of reduced food intake." https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security/ https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...

dickjocke 7y ago
I don't think that's a low bar. The US is an advanced economy. Why would people being unable to get fresh produce or have a balanced and varied diet be acceptable? Especially when you consider the obesity problems the country is facing. I think that food insecurity meaning literal hunger pains is way too low a bar for the US. That number should be literally 0%. Food security for us should mean food that is healthy and excellent.
- jefftk 7y ago
  "food insecure at least some time during the year" includes people who at some point during the year didn't like the food they had available ("reduced desirability"). For example, someone could be getting their food from Meal Hubs and still be counted as food insecure. If you surveyed specifically on whether people had access to fresh produce you'd get a much lower number.
  - dickjocke 7y ago
    I personally don't think that ~10% of people who are in the low food security box are doing great. They still seemed to do horribly in some of the metrics they gathered. For example, 80% of them felt they could not afford a balanced meal. Then if you look at the very low security group, roughly 4% or 5 million people, it gets really worrisome. 32% of households said an adult had gone an entire day without eating anything. And I think this is compounded by something like Covid-19. 85% and 95% of the low and very low food security groups said they were worried food would run out. What happens to them when people make a run on the stores like this last month? Their ability to buy food is strongly tethered to the day of the month when their EBT card is reloaded. I think a lot of this is subjective, and globally the US is doing quite well compared to all countries. But I suspect we do poorly compared to other industrialized/advanced economies.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

The USDA definitions are extraordinarily misleading. “Food insecure” includes people who are at no risk of going hungry, but wish they had better food or a larger variety of food.

vb6sp6 7y ago
You'd be feeling pretty insecure if your only options for food was the boxed garbage from a gas station.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  Whose only option is that?
  - vb6sp6 7y ago
    23+ million Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
    - oh_sigh 7y ago
      That's not what that article says
      - vb6sp6 7y ago
        You have to read past the first sentence "A food desert is an area that has limited access to affordable and nutritious food,[1][2][3] in contrast with an area with higher access to supermarkets or vegetable shops with fresh foods, which is called a food oasis.[4] The designation considers the type and quality of food available to the population, in addition to the accessibility of the food through the size and proximity of the food stores.[5] In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that 23.5 million Americans live in "food deserts"
        oh_sigh 7y ago