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This assumes everyone has a cell phone that can run these apps. I personally know a few people who chose not to have one, and a few more who use old or weird ph

by _jal 7y ago

This assumes everyone has a cell phone that can run these apps. I personally know a few people who chose not to have one, and a few more who use old or weird phones. And there are plenty more for whom no phone isn't a choice.

bad_user 7y ago
If this works you don't need everyone to join, you just need a big enough majority.
- throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  It's an odd tradeoff for me. My phone can make phone calls and that's all. I rarely take it out when I leave the house. When I need to I may turn it off and check it just occasionally, but that's really rare, it normally lives at home. I choose that exactly for privacy reasons. You can tell I'm pretty hot on that kind of thing! For this epidemic situation privacy just might have to take 2nd place for the protection of other people. If I became an unknowing carrier then such an app, though repugnant to me, might save other lives. It might be morally right to have a phone just for that. I think it probably is right, though it makes my skin crawl. I don't think the UK government would be stupid enough to try to force people to keep it, but then again...
  - bad_user 7y ago
    Personally I wouldn't trade my privacy for an emergency. But it seems that this app proposed for the EU is built with privacy in mind and if that's the case then I won't mind using it. N.b. in UK and other countries the location of your phone is already tracked via the mobile towers it connects to. It's not a concern only if you leave it at home. So I'm actually hoping for an app that respects privacy because mobile operators have already started sharing this data.
timr 7y ago
It's not essential to have 100% coverage, just like it's not essential (or feasible) to have 100% compliance with lockdowns. The one thing this is missing (IMO) is targeted quarantine, which we've seen in Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. There will always be clusters that escape surveillance, so you target specific quarantine and "lockdown" tactics, dynamically, to the smallest effective region. In the case of South Korea, they've gone as far as isolating particular buildings for lockdown.
hhs 7y ago
In Moscow, they just announced a plan and said for those who don’t have a cell phone, they’ll offer a device. Here’s the source: “But starting Thursday, Muscovites will have their movements tracked through a mandatory app required on their smartphones. Don't have one? The city says it will lend out devices.” [0] [0]: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/01/825329399/moscow-launches-new-surveillance-app-to-track-residents-in-coronavirus-lockdown?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=nprblogscoronavirusliveupdates https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...
- xenospn 7y ago
  They've been doing this in both Israel and Norway for weeks. Norwegian police will actually pull over busses and physically separate passengers if they're not observing adequate social distancing.
- jjgreen 7y ago
  .. and if you don't want to carry one, they staple it to your ear, like cattle.

by _jal 7y ago

bad_user 7y ago

If this works you don't need everyone to join, you just need a big enough majority.

throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
It's an odd tradeoff for me. My phone can make phone calls and that's all. I rarely take it out when I leave the house. When I need to I may turn it off and check it just occasionally, but that's really rare, it normally lives at home. I choose that exactly for privacy reasons. You can tell I'm pretty hot on that kind of thing! For this epidemic situation privacy just might have to take 2nd place for the protection of other people. If I became an unknowing carrier then such an app, though repugnant to me, might save other lives. It might be morally right to have a phone just for that. I think it probably is right, though it makes my skin crawl. I don't think the UK government would be stupid enough to try to force people to keep it, but then again...
- bad_user 7y ago
  Personally I wouldn't trade my privacy for an emergency. But it seems that this app proposed for the EU is built with privacy in mind and if that's the case then I won't mind using it. N.b. in UK and other countries the location of your phone is already tracked via the mobile towers it connects to. It's not a concern only if you leave it at home. So I'm actually hoping for an app that respects privacy because mobile operators have already started sharing this data.

timr 7y ago

It's not essential to have 100% coverage, just like it's not essential (or feasible) to have 100% compliance with lockdowns. The one thing this is missing (IMO) is targeted quarantine, which we've seen in Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. There will always be clusters that escape surveillance, so you target specific quarantine and "lockdown" tactics, dynamically, to the smallest effective region. In the case of South Korea, they've gone as far as isolating particular buildings for lockdown.

hhs 7y ago

In Moscow, they just announced a plan and said for those who don’t have a cell phone, they’ll offer a device. Here’s the source: “But starting Thursday, Muscovites will have their movements tracked through a mandatory app required on their smartphones. Don't have one? The city says it will lend out devices.” [0] [0]: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/01/825329399/moscow-launches-new-surveillance-app-to-track-residents-in-coronavirus-lockdown?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=nprblogscoronavirusliveupdates https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...

xenospn 7y ago
They've been doing this in both Israel and Norway for weeks. Norwegian police will actually pull over busses and physically separate passengers if they're not observing adequate social distancing.
jjgreen 7y ago
.. and if you don't want to carry one, they staple it to your ear, like cattle.