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I believe it's not just parasites -- it's also things like diseases and famine as well. The reason it's called "parasite-stress theory" is not because parasite

I believe it's not just parasites -- it's also things like diseases and famine as well. The reason it's called "parasite-stress theory" is not because parasites are so important for the selection of government, but because it's a reference to parasite-stress theory in biology. It makes sense. If you don't even have basic healthcare or security, a strongman willing to swoop in and take decisive action does sound appealing. Unfortunately, though, they usually just make things worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite-stress_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite-stress_theory

jariel 7y ago
"a strongman willing to swoop in and take decisive action does sound appealing" Or maybe a group of people facing existential calamity actually do need fairly strong leadership? Taiwan and especially Singapore might be characterized as much less 'liberal democratic' than the US, and they have already tamed coronavirus while the US flails and a lot of people are dying. Maybe that's not a perfect example, but it surely illustrates the point.
- etrautmann 7y ago
  Strong leadership != authoritarianism This seems like a dangerous meme right now
- zbyte64 7y ago
  A group of people stressed by the lack of basics are more likely to make a mistake in choosing strong leadership.
  - jariel 7y ago
    "by the lack of basics are more likely to make a mistake in choosing strong leadership." Citation? Examples? Where is the evidence of this? I think Trump is an excellent example of 'Completely lacking in competency 'fake' strong man' - but there are plenty of counterexamples.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  That's true. I'm normally very anti-authoritarian but these days I applaud when police come by and shut down public gatherings due to COVID-19. I think everyone is more comfortable with authoritarianism during this crisis. To be fair, there is a place for decisive action during emergency, as long as those emergency powers don't last forever. However, long term, authoritarian leadership makes things worse due to lack of transparency and accountability to the people. They can clean things up short term, but then they hold onto power and rot society. I guess there could be a place for temporary authoritarian governments to swoop in, sweep up the mess, and then hand over things to liberal democracies, but they don't hand over power easily. A book I read on Vietnam (A Bright Shining Lie) floated the idea that communism never delivered on its promise to make society more equitable, but communist revolutions have played a role in eliminating backwards feudal governments and clearing the way for liberal democracies to take over. Kind of like a shock treatment, but with a very high price in terms of human suffering. Anyway, we should all be very suspicious and ready to oppose authoritarian creep, because we're all susceptible to it right now, and it could stick around even after this virus passes.
  - droithomme 7y ago
    I'm not sure that police shutting down parties is always authoritarianism. In the present case we have public health authorities issuing very sound and science based banning on large gatherings, done under temporary emergency authority during a declared emergency, all in compliance with established law and long known medical knowledge of epidemic management. These orders are then enforced by police. Is this really then an authoritarian government that operates this way? It seems to me the authoritarian way would be that the strong man issues an edict which may or may not be legally allowed or based on reason, and then his stooges, which may be the police or military, enforce it in a draconian manner, without regard to what the written law may permit.
bb88 7y ago
Interesting, those variables have been attempted to be accounted in the paper. They have variables specified for that in their model. Now that's not to say the paper is accurate as I am not a scientist, but it is to say I find it an interesting read.
S_A_P 7y ago
It would seem to me that if you are sick or your health is suffering, several things can result: 1) you dont have the time or energy to consider what the (authoritarian) leader is doing as carefully (cognitive) 2) you may just be too tired/sick to do anything about it (physical)
- saagarjha 7y ago
  And 3) if a leader promises they can help if you just give up your freedoms, you’re more likely to do so.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  You're lower on the hierarchy of needs. If you're afraid you're going to get killed or starve you don't care about abstract things like freedom of artistic expression.
  - anovikov 7y ago
    Whole history of the Soviet Union is a living proof that theory of hierarchy of needs is bs.
    - jshevek 7y ago
      Like so many ideas that persist, the "strong" form is wrong, and the "weak" form is useful. The parent's point stands.
    - asdfman123 7y ago
      Can you explain what you mean a little more?
- bb88 7y ago
  To me, what's interesting is that parasites cause complex interactions in animals. There's a parasite that apparently cures adult onset asthma, e.g. So I think that while the theory would be hard to prove, the power of parasites causing complex physiological changes should not be ignored.
- 7y ago
failrate 7y ago
And heavy stimulant use.

jariel 7y ago

"a strongman willing to swoop in and take decisive action does sound appealing" Or maybe a group of people facing existential calamity actually do need fairly strong leadership? Taiwan and especially Singapore might be characterized as much less 'liberal democratic' than the US, and they have already tamed coronavirus while the US flails and a lot of people are dying. Maybe that's not a perfect example, but it surely illustrates the point.

etrautmann 7y ago
Strong leadership != authoritarianism This seems like a dangerous meme right now
zbyte64 7y ago
A group of people stressed by the lack of basics are more likely to make a mistake in choosing strong leadership.
- jariel 7y ago
  "by the lack of basics are more likely to make a mistake in choosing strong leadership." Citation? Examples? Where is the evidence of this? I think Trump is an excellent example of 'Completely lacking in competency 'fake' strong man' - but there are plenty of counterexamples.
asdfman123 7y ago
That's true. I'm normally very anti-authoritarian but these days I applaud when police come by and shut down public gatherings due to COVID-19. I think everyone is more comfortable with authoritarianism during this crisis. To be fair, there is a place for decisive action during emergency, as long as those emergency powers don't last forever. However, long term, authoritarian leadership makes things worse due to lack of transparency and accountability to the people. They can clean things up short term, but then they hold onto power and rot society. I guess there could be a place for temporary authoritarian governments to swoop in, sweep up the mess, and then hand over things to liberal democracies, but they don't hand over power easily. A book I read on Vietnam (A Bright Shining Lie) floated the idea that communism never delivered on its promise to make society more equitable, but communist revolutions have played a role in eliminating backwards feudal governments and clearing the way for liberal democracies to take over. Kind of like a shock treatment, but with a very high price in terms of human suffering. Anyway, we should all be very suspicious and ready to oppose authoritarian creep, because we're all susceptible to it right now, and it could stick around even after this virus passes.
- droithomme 7y ago
  I'm not sure that police shutting down parties is always authoritarianism. In the present case we have public health authorities issuing very sound and science based banning on large gatherings, done under temporary emergency authority during a declared emergency, all in compliance with established law and long known medical knowledge of epidemic management. These orders are then enforced by police. Is this really then an authoritarian government that operates this way? It seems to me the authoritarian way would be that the strong man issues an edict which may or may not be legally allowed or based on reason, and then his stooges, which may be the police or military, enforce it in a draconian manner, without regard to what the written law may permit.

bb88 7y ago

Interesting, those variables have been attempted to be accounted in the paper. They have variables specified for that in their model. Now that's not to say the paper is accurate as I am not a scientist, but it is to say I find it an interesting read.

S_A_P 7y ago

It would seem to me that if you are sick or your health is suffering, several things can result: 1) you dont have the time or energy to consider what the (authoritarian) leader is doing as carefully (cognitive) 2) you may just be too tired/sick to do anything about it (physical)

saagarjha 7y ago
And 3) if a leader promises they can help if you just give up your freedoms, you’re more likely to do so.
asdfman123 7y ago
You're lower on the hierarchy of needs. If you're afraid you're going to get killed or starve you don't care about abstract things like freedom of artistic expression.
- anovikov 7y ago
  Whole history of the Soviet Union is a living proof that theory of hierarchy of needs is bs.
  - jshevek 7y ago
    Like so many ideas that persist, the "strong" form is wrong, and the "weak" form is useful. The parent's point stands.
  - asdfman123 7y ago
    Can you explain what you mean a little more?
bb88 7y ago
To me, what's interesting is that parasites cause complex interactions in animals. There's a parasite that apparently cures adult onset asthma, e.g. So I think that while the theory would be hard to prove, the power of parasites causing complex physiological changes should not be ignored.
7y ago

failrate 7y ago

And heavy stimulant use.