4 ms·

That's true if you don't need recommendations from the people you're working with to get your next job, if you don't want to get promotions (which help you get

by cwyers 7y ago

That's true if you don't need recommendations from the people you're working with to get your next job, if you don't want to get promotions (which help you get better jobs down the road!), and if you are content to spend 40 hours a week from now until you retire just coasting through life. I think a better way to look at it is -- don't be loyal to something that can't be loyal to you. But you can and should let yourself care about the work you're doing and the individuals you're working with. That way, if you do end up leaving when you don't want to, you have accomplishments and a network of people who know what you're capable of. And up until then, you can take pride in what you're doing and feel good about how you're treating the people you're doing it with.

officialchicken 7y ago
That's true if you live in work-obsessed culture that believes desk time is a more important metric than productivity.
kid_atticus 7y ago
> for a company that you don’t own I think you're missing the key part here. Most tech workers do have some ownership in the companies which muddies the calculus a little bit. But if you don't have a stake in the company you are literally trading time for money. Work more time for the same money and you're just under-pricing your labor by an equivalent amount. Also, if you need to work overtime to get good recommendations and promotions that is not a company you want to spend your time at. Also also, if you need to work overtime to care about the work you're doing then you should re-examine your value system.
- distances 7y ago
  > Most tech workers do have some ownership in the companies which muddies the calculus a little bit. Maybe nitpicking, but I don't think this is true at all. Lots of tech workers do, sure, but I doubt it's anywhere even close to half of them.
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    I wouldn't even consider common stock options as a form of ownership. You are basically last in line to get any sort of compensation after an exit.
- cwyers 7y ago
  Where did I say anything about working overtime? Here's the key quote from the post I was replying to: "Just show up, do the bare minimum to meet expectations, finish your 8 hour shift and go home and enjoy quality time with your family." It's possible to opt out of the bullshit conspicuous overwork that a lot of people engage in (although you should be prepared to face consequences for that!), and still do more than the bare minimum during the 40 hours you show up to work. And it may be better _for you_ to do so.
saiya-jin 7y ago
That's a bit sad (an quite prevalent in some industries) viewpoint. Maybe it comes to what makes you feel satisfied with yourself and happy - if its only work, then yes above is true. But those actually having the type of work worth such a sacrifice are miniscule, I guess 1-5% of HN readers. What about achieving happiness and self-fulfillment from other things than work? I couldn't care less about my (well paid & successful) corporate job, because after it ends, I put on harness and helmet and go climbing. Or on the weekends hiking, skiing, ski touring, paragliding, diving, and so on. Traveling around the world for vacations. I have a great wife, I have a tiny little son I love very much. Those are properly fulfilling things in life, very well worth investing one's time and energy. Plenty comes back, and even if not, its a great thing to do nevertheless. At work, there are plenty of folks with mindset you describe. Investing themselves into corporate careers, thinking money, talking money. Most I know have pretty sad lives.
- nogabebop23 7y ago
  Why are their values less important than yours? Isn't it just as easy to look at what you consider this rich, fulfilling life and say "poor sucker is totally a slave to our social media culture; desperate to show us how wordly and alternative they are. Why can't they just be happy with the little things in life?" A lot easier to find joy in your work these days vs. activities and vacations too...
  - saiya-jin 7y ago
    I see what you mean. I think the dying moment or few years before it are a good judge whether one lived a good life that one can be proud of. I struggle to see how corporate career is something that would get one there. This is purely my viewpoint of course, I have only my mindset and values. But its clear to me personally what I want in life and care about. That traveling (long term backpacking in India and other places) also gave me pretty good knowledge of myself. As they say, 'whatever makes you happy'. Just consider long term happiness, and not only momentary kick.
arethuza 7y ago
"just coasting through life" Someone could be extremely active outside of work - its not just work that counts. Edit: Even in the software world - what about all of the people who create stuff outside of formal "work"?
baq 7y ago
being loyal to any organization which has an HR division is a recipe for depression. don't do that.
techybuddha 7y ago
You are worth more than your job title. You get paid for a job. Value yourself first and foremost.
charlesu 7y ago
If all you want is to get ahead delegating, communicating, and politicking are what matter -- and they can be done well in 40 hours or fewer.
notyourday 7y ago
HTTP 402. Payme.

by cwyers 7y ago

officialchicken 7y ago

That's true if you live in work-obsessed culture that believes desk time is a more important metric than productivity.

kid_atticus 7y ago

> for a company that you don’t own I think you're missing the key part here. Most tech workers do have some ownership in the companies which muddies the calculus a little bit. But if you don't have a stake in the company you are literally trading time for money. Work more time for the same money and you're just under-pricing your labor by an equivalent amount. Also, if you need to work overtime to get good recommendations and promotions that is not a company you want to spend your time at. Also also, if you need to work overtime to care about the work you're doing then you should re-examine your value system.

distances 7y ago
> Most tech workers do have some ownership in the companies which muddies the calculus a little bit. Maybe nitpicking, but I don't think this is true at all. Lots of tech workers do, sure, but I doubt it's anywhere even close to half of them.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  I wouldn't even consider common stock options as a form of ownership. You are basically last in line to get any sort of compensation after an exit.
cwyers 7y ago
Where did I say anything about working overtime? Here's the key quote from the post I was replying to: "Just show up, do the bare minimum to meet expectations, finish your 8 hour shift and go home and enjoy quality time with your family." It's possible to opt out of the bullshit conspicuous overwork that a lot of people engage in (although you should be prepared to face consequences for that!), and still do more than the bare minimum during the 40 hours you show up to work. And it may be better _for you_ to do so.

saiya-jin 7y ago

That's a bit sad (an quite prevalent in some industries) viewpoint. Maybe it comes to what makes you feel satisfied with yourself and happy - if its only work, then yes above is true. But those actually having the type of work worth such a sacrifice are miniscule, I guess 1-5% of HN readers. What about achieving happiness and self-fulfillment from other things than work? I couldn't care less about my (well paid & successful) corporate job, because after it ends, I put on harness and helmet and go climbing. Or on the weekends hiking, skiing, ski touring, paragliding, diving, and so on. Traveling around the world for vacations. I have a great wife, I have a tiny little son I love very much. Those are properly fulfilling things in life, very well worth investing one's time and energy. Plenty comes back, and even if not, its a great thing to do nevertheless. At work, there are plenty of folks with mindset you describe. Investing themselves into corporate careers, thinking money, talking money. Most I know have pretty sad lives.

nogabebop23 7y ago
Why are their values less important than yours? Isn't it just as easy to look at what you consider this rich, fulfilling life and say "poor sucker is totally a slave to our social media culture; desperate to show us how wordly and alternative they are. Why can't they just be happy with the little things in life?" A lot easier to find joy in your work these days vs. activities and vacations too...
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  I see what you mean. I think the dying moment or few years before it are a good judge whether one lived a good life that one can be proud of. I struggle to see how corporate career is something that would get one there. This is purely my viewpoint of course, I have only my mindset and values. But its clear to me personally what I want in life and care about. That traveling (long term backpacking in India and other places) also gave me pretty good knowledge of myself. As they say, 'whatever makes you happy'. Just consider long term happiness, and not only momentary kick.

arethuza 7y ago

"just coasting through life" Someone could be extremely active outside of work - its not just work that counts. Edit: Even in the software world - what about all of the people who create stuff outside of formal "work"?

baq 7y ago

being loyal to any organization which has an HR division is a recipe for depression. don't do that.

techybuddha 7y ago

You are worth more than your job title. You get paid for a job. Value yourself first and foremost.

charlesu 7y ago

If all you want is to get ahead delegating, communicating, and politicking are what matter -- and they can be done well in 40 hours or fewer.

notyourday 7y ago

HTTP 402. Payme.